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Old 11-04-2011, 07:34 AM   #61
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RE: What would you do?

Quote:
Marin wrote:Art wrote:
-***** Get a really good condition 48' Tollycraft Tri Cabin with a super strong, low hour, fully up-graded*drive train already*in her

PS: Re some of your past posts: Did a kid bite you or something??* Draw any blood??? LOL
I think Tollycrafts are very well made boats but none of their models appeal to us aesthetically.* So we wouldn't swap a GB for a Tollycraft but I an understand why Tollycraft lovers would.

No, a kid has never bitten me.* I just find them all to be a pain in the a*s and not worth wasting time on.* My time on. Their parents must feel differently, I guess, although it baffles me as to why since they get nothing but grief from the little bastards. :-)

Marin - Thanks for nice words on Tollycraft.* They are bullet proof... comfortable, good handling and easy to care for too! *I also give you good words toward GB.* My other option, in answer to what would I do, that I didn't mention,*would be to purchase a larger GB!* They are a boat that stands in their own superior class.* 1960s 70s when I was young on and around New England waters Grand Banks were thought of as*tip-top of the pleasure boating world.* There werent too many around there back then but when one was sighted high complement discussions would ensue.*

BTW you too*were a kid too at one time, in Sausalito... were you as you mention of kids.* Your distain for kids appears over the top!* We have two sons and a daughter (36 to 42 now... hardly kids anymore lol), three grand kids (four to eleven years), and another in the hopper to arrive beginning of April.* If it werent for KIDS there would be NO ADULTS... you and me included.* Therefore there would be no Tollycraft or Grand Banks or other great craft Which would be a REAL bummer!* *

*

*
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:21 AM   #62
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RE: What would you do?

I was taught by my parents that taking care and maintaining what you got is better and cheaper in the long ran than buy new.** However, there is a limit!*
*
*
It would be 1) keeping the wife/SO happy and 2) comparing total dollar amount.* I can not afford another devours.* *At least if the wife/SO is happy I still get the use/own the boat.* So its not really my decision!** I am lucky my wife is down home country and reasonable.
*
If my wife does not care it would be 1) the dollar amount and 2) the dollar amount.* I bought the boat because my wife wanted it and we got a good deal. Even in today down market after 16 years we could still break even on the money invested.
*
Completing the Eagle would cost 50 grand, but buying a newer Pacific Marina 65 ft that my wife would like is 750+ grand. **So 50 grand sunk back into the Eagle would probable be cheaper in the long run.* *****
*
I had a second childhood raising our children, and having a third childhood help raising our grandchildren.* **
*
*
Tollycraft as built in Longview Washington where I grew up. First met Mr Tolly when I was child as he started in a garage by the Cowlitze River which I use to ride my bike and play.* They had a huge plant by the Longview/Kelso airport.* The molds were bought several companies, so there might be some boats being built from the molds.* I heard most went to Mexico?*
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:39 AM   #63
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RE: What would you do?

Marin: *Interesting and provocative question, I must say. *I've been thinking about it since yesterday morning. *Just a few days ago, I was at the Ft. Lauderdale Boat show looking at some pretty dreamy machines, but like you, I feel that our boat has the size and features that work pretty well for us. *When I dream about a better machine, I usually think of how I'd want to change our boat to facilitate our style of cruising. *Of course, I get the old Photoshop out and play with those ideas (much more affordable making the virtual changes). *But the question was a very good one to point out how satisfied one may be with the status-quo. *In the end, I'm not sure I want to go to another platform where "other" compromises are bound to appear. *Here, with my current boat, I know the ones that I have, and I could even do something about most of them in the future. *

**I say, if you love your boat, keep loving it in whatever way would please you most. *I mean, what the heck is money for anyway?
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:47 PM   #64
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RE: What would you do?

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Art wrote:*If it werent for KIDS there would be NO ADULTS...
*That would certainly solve the overpopulation problem that Eric frequently speaks of.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:03 PM   #65
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RE: What would you do?

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JohnP wrote:
*

What I would really perfer to do is sell the 36 and buy a*newer 42 Europa, with a single engine!

*
The GB42 is a great boat--- I believe more were built than any other GB model.* I've been on a few and it's impressive how much more room one gets with just a six foot increase in length over the 36.* Particularly in the main cabin.* And if one gets a GB Europa version of any of the GB models, the* main cabin will be significantly longer than the cabin on a Classic (tri-cabin) of the same length.

Were we starting out in boating now and wanted a GB (questionable) the 42 would most likely be our focus.* But it doesn't represent a significant enough change from the 36 to warrant buying six more feet to get a boat that will take another bunch of years to troubleshoot, upgrade, fix, etc.

We will never own a single engine boat.* We've run single engine boats (narrowboats in the UK and a charter GB36) and I have no issue with them in terms of handling and maneuverability.* The extra room in the engine space is nice, and the service and maintenance costs-- in money and in time--- are half that of a twin.* But as I've stated many times before I like operating multiple engines and my wife--- who has no problem flying to God-knows-where deep ih the Coast Range behind a singe engine made durring WWII--- is much more confident and relaxed with two engines under the sole in the boat.* And that alone trumps any advantages offereed by one engine over two.* We've needed the spare engine four times in the past 13 years and it was nice to be able to come home on the other engine instead of on the end of a very expensive rope.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:06 PM   #66
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RE: What would you do?

Sea Tow is cheaper than running a second engine...
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:10 PM   #67
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RE: What would you do?

For an eye opener, check out the wood maintenance costs on an older*Fleming 55. I talked to my yard about this yesterday and was staggered as to what one owner spends per year. In the PNW unless you are in a boat house DIY is tough to schedule. Of course you can let it go to the dogs and lose your investment.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:25 PM   #68
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RE: What would you do?

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Sea Tow is cheaper than running a second engine...
*Not when you boat up where there are no towing services or they have to run 50-100 miles or more to get to you.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:33 PM   #69
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RE: What would you do?

not true totally...they pay up to $5000 in towing from anyone that can do it.

yes..there are places that it might be a stretch...but not many.

I*was stationed on* Kodiak and for that kind of*money... it usually got* done...plus...it's still rare that a properly maintainrd diesel totally fails without warning...mostly the aux parts that you carry spares for.

I know I'll never convince some that sigles are the way to go so I'll end it on that....

Please don't make me tell the story of going to the North Pole with a single engine...
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:46 PM   #70
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What would you do?

Quote:
psneeld wrote:plus...it's still rare that a properly maintainrd diesel totally fails without warning...mostly the aux parts that you carry spares for.
We've never had an engine itself fail.* Nor has anyone else we know who has had to complete a trip--- a few of several hundred miles--- on one or on a rope.* The issues for us have been cooling problems and in one case my letting an engine get a slug of air during a fuel transfer and I didn't want to bleed the engine while bobbing around in rough water.* Other peple we know-- power and sail--- have had to shut an engine (or the engine) down for cooling problems, an exhaust leak, and in one fairly dramatic instance a log barfed up by a whirlpool that jammed between a prop and the rudder behind it.* The log finally came free on its own minutes before the boat went onto the rocks, but while the engine on that side was fine, the driveline and strut were severely damaged.

Up here where we are frequently boating in relatively narrow bodies of water with currents that can be very strong, the time between having to shut the engine down and being carried into shallow water or onto a rock or reef is sometimes measured in minutes, not hours.* There are a few things one can do to try to ward off the grounding, like let your anchor all the way out and hope it grabs onto something.* But relying on a tow service which may have to run for an hour or maybe much more to get to you is not something we want to add to our list of risks.* This plus the other reasons I listed earlier takes single-engine boats off our list of "we'd like to have" even though there are several single-engine boats we like very* much as boats--- Krogen, lobsterboats, etc.* If we were boating in San Francisco Bay or the ICW where help is never very far away, we would probably consider a single-engine boat to be a more viable option for us. But not up here.


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 4th of November 2011 01:47:30 PM
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:56 PM   #71
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What would you do?

You made me do it...started a high arctic trip with a twin screw icebreaker but lost one main before we even hit Iceland.* captain said he started his career on single screw buoy tenders so why not finish the rest of the 5 month long*mission on one engine.* we did...got to within 400 miles of the North Pole and returned to US via europe.*

Remote?...the Pacific Northwest is urban compared to many places I've been...I understand the twin concern...but I'm also a Sea Tow guy with a single engine boat that rescues twin engine boats all the time.* Sorry....you'll never sell me on the NEED of a second engine...they are nice but only a convenience.* Ask about a million commercial fishermen around the world.

And as I said...I don't expect to sell you or any other twin fan on singles...so I can sleep at night knowing I stopped right here


-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 4th of November 2011 02:00:09 PM
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:19 PM   #72
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RE: What would you do?

The fishermen here go out in groups together and frequently use each others support. When I say on the floats here in town I'm going out for a few days they almost always say "who are you going with?". I'd have a twin if I could afford it.
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:32 PM   #73
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What would you do?

A fully agree a twin is not NEEDED on a boat, unless it's a big ship that wants to go fast (aircraft carrier, cruise ship, etc.). Having two engines in a recreational boat is indeed, a convenience. So is owning a car. I don't NEED it--- I could walk the 35 miles to work every day or spend three hours taking buses. Everybody's experience is different, but having benefited greatly from having a second engine on the boat four times (so far) while I certainly don't say people with single-engine boats are taking a chance or are wrong, I would never want one myself anymore. Even on our little Arima fishing boat, I'd never given a thought to it being a single engine boat for the past 24 years until this past spring when the 90hp Yamaha quit some 22 miles from our base in an area up in BC with zip-zero-nada radio or phone coverage. It was very nice to be able to fire up the kicker motor and go home, albeit slowly. And as it turned out, the reason the big motor quit was far beyond any sort of on-board repair. So it was either come home on some other source of power or drift around hoping another boat would pass by (very rare in these particular waters) before the wind and current put the boat on the rocks.

So you're right--- you or anyone else will never convince me that a single-engine boat is anything I want a part of. And people with single-engine boats who have not experienced a shutdown and subsequent grounding because a tow didn't arrive soon enough will never be convinced of the value of a twin. :-)

The icebreaker story simply proves my point.* Had it been a single screw vessel, the trip would have been over when the ship lost the engine unless they'd been able to fix it.* As it was, they were able to continue the voyage on the other engine.* Sounds like a pretty ringing endorsement for having more than one engine to me :-)


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 4th of November 2011 02:36:47 PM
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:44 PM   #74
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What would you do?

Having ungrounded hundreds of boats, towed several thousand, assisted plenty more for various reasons*in my current job...NEVER in the last ten years has a single put a boat in greater danger because it was a single...the skipper might have been at fault for being inexperienced...but in each and every case the single disablds was ONLY an inconvenience.*

After 50 years of owning/running all kinds of boats including singles and twins myself...I've had the same experience.* There's never been a situation where a second engine was anything more than a convenience and a second engine was never necessary to stay ungrounded or safe.

I could care less if people want twins...I know what I want...and just the truth be known...what people WANT is one thing and*why they want it is up to them...but to cast dispersion that singles by nature are more likely to put you in harms way...without taking into consideration a LOT of other things just ain't true...for the inexperienced...yeah maybe..but for people who understand a singles limitations...just ain't so....


-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 4th of November 2011 02:45:44 PM
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Old 11-04-2011, 03:02 PM   #75
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RE: What would you do?

I'm a single.*A cat 3208 n.a.

Could be because you are just a bit more prepared with a single

If you only have one shot you better make it count.

I'm* kind of particular about my motor. I watch it like a hawk.

I carry a spare for most anything that could break on my boat and I know how to fix things as per my signature.

if it can't be repaired maybe it shouldn't be on the boat.

SD

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Old 11-04-2011, 03:11 PM   #76
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What would you do?

please...this is not a single vs twin

*thread..

I wanted to kill it a while back...just some people like to make it more than it is...


-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 4th of November 2011 03:12:34 PM
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Old 11-04-2011, 03:47 PM   #77
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RE: What would you do?

Sorry. Never been in on that debate. I alway figured it was a personal choice.

Sort of like dark hulls vs*light.

SD*
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Old 11-04-2011, 03:57 PM   #78
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RE: What would you do?

1967 I was aboard a single screw that was towed in. * 2009 I was aboard a twin screw that got towed in. * Anything can happen!*

Taint necessarily the number of screws that determines if you may get screwed!! *
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:13 PM   #79
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RE: What would you do?

I do'nt see how this conversation can be happening. The safety advantage of a twin is super obvious.

Do engines sometimes quit?

Can a twin engine boat proceed on it's other engine?*

Duhhhh

It just costs more money.

But it should'nt take a rocket scientist to see that a twin engine yacht is safer.

*
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:23 PM   #80
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RE: What would you do?

Marin,* I knew that single engine 42 would get a rise out of you!

Not to worry there are probably 100 twin 42s for every single out there.

I think the extra 6 feet is a pretty big deal, and the volume of the boat is a lot more than the 36.

Plenty of boat for two people and still managable size, you might get to take it out once and a while.

Nothing wrong with the 50' plus boats, but hopefully extended cruising is in the cards as that is what they do best.

JohnP

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