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Old 11-02-2011, 01:39 PM   #21
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RE: What would you do?

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nomadwilly wrote:
You're WAY too narrow minded Marin. Soo many boats and soo little time. Sell the 36 that you have said you do'nt like many times with the engines you almost hate and spend a year shopping.
*Eric--- That is very sound advice but in our case it doesn't apply.* We have zero, zip, nada, no interest in boat shopping at this point.* You're absolutely correct, there are a bazillion boats out there that could suit as as well or better than what we have now or are contemplating buying if we chose to not refit the GB36.

But at this point we are only interested in using a boat, not looking for one.* I find no attraction or appeal whatseover in the thought of checking out boat after boat in search of something that will work for us.* I met a fellow at a party the other year who in casual conversation said he and his wife had a Harley-Davidson and they liked to take long road trips around the northwest with it.* Having some co-workers who are really into Harleys I started to ask him some questions about the different models figuring this would be something he enjoyed talking about.* He very politely stopped me and said that while he really enjoyed HIS Harley and what he and his wife did with it, he had no real interest in Harleys or in motorcycles in general.

I'm that guy with boats.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:58 PM   #22
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RE: What would you do?

I love working on my boat but I wouldn't pay someone else to do it.

Unless*I absolutely could not do it myself.

To me labor is where the love is.

From Galaxy Quest. *By Saris, O'l lobster head

"A commander knows every bolt, every weld in his ship"

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Old 11-02-2011, 02:02 PM   #23
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RE: What would you do?

Selfishly speaking Marin, I hope that you do go the refit route for the following reasons:

1) It would be very interesting to follow along with the project, hearing your thoughts as you make each decision, perhaps seeing some photos of the improvements, and in general learning more about how things can be done properly.

2) When you are ready to sell, I want your boat!!!
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Old 11-02-2011, 02:14 PM   #24
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RE: What would you do?

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I love working on my boat but I wouldn't pay someone else to do it.
I used to feel that way about a lot of things.* For example, with one exception when the engine burned a valve, I have done all the work on the Land Rover I bought new in 1973 from then to the present.* Up until about fifteen years ago I really enjoyed it.* But my priorities--- and the demands on my time--- have changed a lot in the last couple of decades and today, while I think fondly of all the work I've done on the LR and how much I enjoyed doing it, I dont' want to do it any more even though I have the tools, experience, and shop manual to do it.* There are a lot of things to do on the vehicle today, but instead of being eager to do them I run through all the steps it will take (since I know them all) and think, I've got more interesting things to do. But I still want the LR to run right (as well as all our other vehicles), so now I take it to a shop and say "do it."

The boat is the same way.* I actually enjoy working on the exterior wood--- I find it a very relaxing pasttime.* But the thought of rebuilding a toilet or adjusting the valves on the Lehmans--- I know how to do all that stuff.* I just don't want to devote the time to doing it anymore.* There are a zillion things that have become far more interesting to me than rebuilding a toilet or adjusting valves.* I still do these things because I'm cheap and don't want to spend $100 an hour for something I can do for "free" (unless I calculate the value of my time, which these days is getting a lot more valuable-- to me).

This is why turning over the boat to a bunch of competent people and having them do all the things I want to do but have no interest in doing anymore is so appealing.* I enjoy working on stuff when it's a new and interesting challenge.* Or if I just enjoy doing it, like maintaining the exterior wood.* But when the "new" or the "interesting challenge" isn't there anymore, I don't want to do it.* I want it done, but not by me.
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Old 11-02-2011, 02:33 PM   #25
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RE: What would you do?

I see your point. If I had the money.

Never did. Never will.

If you have the cash nothing wrong with a refit on a boat you love.

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Old 11-02-2011, 04:09 PM   #26
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RE: What would you do?

I understand completely where you are coming from. There is a lot to be said for "the devil you know" vs the little, and sometimes not so little, "discoveries" you will undoubtedly make with another vessel.

While we are very satisfied with Pioneer, especially all the commercial-grade*systems, it's this very quality that sometimes makes me hanker after something else. Pioneer will never be a "yacht". She was built to work, not look pretty and although* the*conversion added a bit of class,*her fishing vessel roots still show through.

At 53 ft, Pioneer is remarkably easy to handle even single-handed,*and for us*it's about the*ideal size.**However, I think the Fleming 55 is the closest thing to perfection afloat and, if I had the money....Pioneer would be gone!
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:17 PM   #27
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What would you do?

Quote:
Bendit wrote:*However, I think the Fleming 55 is the closest thing to perfection afloat and, if I had the money....Pioneer would be gone!
*:thumbsup: Me and mine too!


-- Edited by dwhatty on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 04:17:29 PM
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:28 PM   #28
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What would you do?

Maybe I missed it in a post but the basic question is...if the choice is rebuilding a 36 or going bigger (not 36 and newer) than what do you think you need the extra boat for???

If it's not seaworthyness or range or storage...then my vote is gut the 36 and make it the way you want because even the bigger GB and Flemming is far from perfect to most dcruisers who know A LOT MORE THAN THE MARKETING DEPTS OF BOAT MANUFACTURERS....with that out of my system....

If I had the money that it would take to make the quantum leap up...I woiuld have to ask why???? I know sometimes the answer is because I can...but that's the rich guy answer...not the smart guy answer. Every boat on the market...including new off the shelf 2Mil Nordhavens ect...need a lot of readjustment before I would call them home and the way I want them.

So if 36 feet can make you happy...esopecially if someone else does the work, makes it EXACTLY the way you have learned the boat you love should be...then I say do the makeover. I even contemplated (before I found a 40 footer that I wanted) was to make the fore cabin on a 36 the galley (get it out of the main cabin) complete with dishwasher and weasher/dryer. I always figured the price difference over a bigger boat would allow me to get motel/bed and breckfast rooms for cruising guests if I wanted them along that badly and still come out ahead than buying a bigger boat that didn't meet my high standards.

No boat ever returns your happiness...barely the money sometimes...so all the talk about resale is for people that are not seriously cruising or living aboar...their boats are about the same as riding lawnmowers in the big scheme of things.


-- Edited by psneeld on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 04:29:09 PM
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:36 PM   #29
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RE: What would you do?

Marin
I would lean towards option 1. If an increased boating budget were to show up I would LOVE to take our boat to the right yard and have the mains, generator, fuel tanks, water tanks, portals, prop shafts and rudders removed. Go back in with new bilge paint, polish the diamondplate floorboards and new tanks. Build the Velvet Drives, clean, paint and detail the Lehmans and put all back in with new oil coolers.
New SS portals, new paint top and bottom, new electronics, new twin 16,000 btu AC units and splash, I'm done!!
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:09 PM   #30
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RE: What would you do?

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Maybe I missed it in a post but the basic question is...if the choice is rebuilding a 36 or going bigger (not 36 and newer) than what do you think you need the extra boat for???

*Very valid question.* Going bigger isn't a major criteria in our situation.*

The main reason the FL55 tops our list is we REALLY like FL55s.* We like the looks of them, we like their repuation (based on the FL55 owners we've talked to), and we like the configuration.* I have stated before that the pilothouse configuration is, in our opinions, the single best recreational boat configuration out there.* We also really like the Europa configuration. The FL55 gives us both.

The GB46 is on the list because of all the GB models ever made, from 32' to 66', the GB46 is the best of the bunch in our opinions in terms of cofiguration and appearance.* It can be had in a really intelligent galley-down configuration which my wife greatly prefers to a galley-up boat.* And since we've had a GB for all these years and have a high degree of*familiarity with them*we wanted to include a boat from that line as a potential candidate.

The GB36 meets our needs in terms of size and configuration.* That's not to say having more space, particularly in the main cabin, would not be a really nice thing.* Are we inconvenienced by not having the space?* Not really unless we have guests on board, but the few guests we will*take are people who have no problem with the "fiming Ben Hur in a phone booth" aspect of meal times and such.* So we do not suffer from the lack of space.* That's not to say that more space would not be nice.

Do we need a 55' or 46'*boat?* Nope.* Do we want with just the two of us amost all the time*to deal with manhandling a larger boat in a wind or current?* Not particularly.* And let's be honest-- as we get older*it will probably become less*easy to jump smartly to the dock and get a line around a bullrail and haul a boat in if necessary.* The bigger the boat the more effort can be required.* Of course there are thrusters to pin a boat against the dock if you have them.***And we see lots of older, slower people who manage larger boats like this just fine.* But it's something to consider.

So for us, it's not about a bigger vs smaller boat.* It's about what we have now made "perfect" vs a boat in a different configuration.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:32 PM   #31
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RE: What would you do?

Much the same thinking all wise and experienced cruisers feel....If having visitors is less than a cuple days a month...then stay small....of course if you would have more visitation with a bigger boat...then that's a separate issue.

I know my boys with sig others will visit for a few days to aweek at a time at least once if not twice a year...so i went with something with a decent fwd cabin and nice second head. I refused the Europa style as the whole flying bridge deck is a separate world...to small kids, dogs and older people (me in a few years) where climbing a ladder is out of the question and it's visually and sonically separate from the rest of the boat.

Thus my choice for a double cabin...40' ..galley down. Yes ..a sundeck offers a lot more room..but tougher to single handle...and as I said the Europa model with a nice salon has the two staterooms fwd..a no go..and the isolated upper deck.

Of couse they are only my opinions...but tough to dismiss my logic
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:53 PM   #32
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RE: What would you do?

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psneeld wrote:
If having visitors is less than a cuple days a month...then stay small....of course if you would have more visitation with a bigger boat...then that's a separate issue.

So far we have taken two sets of*friends (adult couples) on cruises of up to about two weeks.* Just one couple at a time.* We don't allow kids on the boat, period, which is not an issue since none of the people we would take on the boat have kids at home anymore, anyway.* We do take dogs, our own and one of the couples that has cruised with us has a dog, too.

The GB36's*tri-cabin arrangement works very well for this, as each couple on the boat is separated by the main cabin.* And each "stateroom" has its own head.* A Europa-style boat in the same size would be problematical in that one couple would have to sleep on a berth made up in the main cabin and there is only one head for everyone on board.

A Europa in a larger size generally includes two or more*separate staterooms up forward plus a head and sometimes even two heads.* So there is no need to make up and put away a berth in the main cabin.

One can chase the options and compromises forever which is why we have come up with our very narrowly focused options.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:57 PM   #33
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RE: What would you do?

I'll chime in here late. Many boats are just plain uncomfortable to spend any time on at the dock. Your GB 36 might be one. My Nordic Tug 42 was one. I would go with the bigger boats. You are not always cruising or eating at an uncomfortable dinette.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:02 PM   #34
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What would you do?

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Doc wrote:
I'll chime in here late. Many boats are just plain uncomfortable to spend any time on at the dock. Your GB 36 might be one. My Nordic Tug 42 was one. I would go with the bigger boats. You are not always cruising or eating at an uncomfortable dinette.

*
*My view of cruising is to stay in comfortable temperatures so much of the dining can take place outdoors...either aboard topside or a confortable place at the marina.*The other times meals can be at restaurants.*The difference in dockage, and opertaing expenses between a 36 and a larger boat can mean you can possibly eat out every night or as often as you please.



-- Edited by psneeld on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 08:03:26 PM


-- Edited by psneeld on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 08:04:39 PM
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:07 PM   #35
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RE: What would you do?

I'd redo the boat I have.*
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:10 PM   #36
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RE: What would you do?

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Marin wrote:We don't allow kids on the boat, period, which is not an issue since none of the people we would take on the boat have kids at home anymore, anyway.* We do take dogs, our own and one of the couples that has cruised with us has a dog, too.
*

What did kids ever do to you Marin? *you were a kid once yourself you know!

Just kidding, haha, no pun intended! *

*

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Old 11-02-2011, 08:39 PM   #37
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What would you do?

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Woodsong wrote:
What did kids ever do to you Marin?
Nothing and I intend to keep it that way.* Outside of boaters blowing their horns for no meaningful*reason, kids are the most annoying things on the planet.* They complain incessently and break everything*until they reach a certain age at which point they take a big chunk of your money.* Then they*ignore you until you get old, at which point they try to screw you out of whatever you have left.

And of course these days the damn things never move away.* Or they do, fail at whatever silly endeavor they attempt, and then they move back in again, as if the hassle they gave you earlier wasn't enough.

Horrible things, kids.* I'll take a dog any day over a kid, which is why we allow dogs on our boat but not kids.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 08:40:38 PM
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:46 PM   #38
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RE: What would you do?

If I loved my boat and it fulfilled my needs, I'd have her "done over."* Question: what would I/you do for our "boat fix" during the six to eighteen months*our boat was worked on?
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:11 PM   #39
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RE: What would you do?

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markpierce wrote:
Question: what would I/you do for our "boat fix" during the six to eighteen months*our boat was worked on?
*Like I said earlier, we have a second boat, so we'd still be able to go boating and fishing.
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:22 PM   #40
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RE: What would you do?

Missed that Marin, but it's worth repeating anyway.
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