What would make you walk after survey?

[BandB]

I sent the rejection of vessel letter today.
I'll be curious to see if they come back to me with some sort of offer.
I also received all the survey reports from the Diesel surveyor and the general surveyor.
The Diesel Survey report said the generator ran for 10 minutes and then when attempting to load test it died.

Was the generator all you based the rejection on? Or were there other things in the report?

 

[Tunajoe]

Not sure if it helps, but the scuttlebutt from some of the NT sellers the SFbay area is they are pretty frustrated that they cant sell their boats. Any offers, no matter how low, on boats up here in the bay area would be carefully considered , I'm sure.

I read on the NT message board that one seller hasnt even had anyone look at his 32 since he put it up for sale!

There is an excellent 2004 32' NT for sale in SF that the wife and I considered.
It was very nice, with a flybridge, but the gentleman wanted $198K for it.
Probably not a bad price, but slightly out of my price range for a 32.
For a few more bucks I can get a 37 NT.

Was the generator all you based the rejection on? Or were there other things in the report?

AC didn't work.

 

[BruceK]

Honda 2000 generators are good, but a diesel genset is a great thing, with or without a/c. Provided it works, of course. Mine is 6.5Kw, refrigeration guy says have nothing else on for starting the eutectic fridge & freezer compressor.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

The OP posted a series of shots back on page one. I think the last one was the thru hull.

Dave

Thanks. That's what I figured. But when I looked and even when I look now I don't see any pictures. ?

And on reading further I now see why.

 

[BandB]

There is an excellent 2004 32' NT for sale in SF that the wife and I considered.
It was very nice, with a flybridge, but the gentleman wanted $198K for it.
Probably not a bad price, but slightly out of my price range for a 32.
For a few more bucks I can get a 37 NT.
AC didn't work.

Prices are negotiable. Always. For instance in this case. You absolutely know if you said $197,800 he'd take it. So just proved it's negotiable. How far for a serious buyer you can't know in advance.

So hull and engines fine? How was the sea trial?

If everything else but AC and generator were fine then I'd look at the price of replacing both and reducing my offer by that. But honestly you sound like from some of your comments that you had second thoughts and were looking for somethng to ease you out.

 

[ranger58sb]

The boat came with everything set up by the factory for aftermarket AC units. Ductwork, plenum, vents, and wiring. It was an option NT offers.
The boat also has the factory HeaterCraft heater which worked great.

I wonder if all the listings you're seeing are written by owners/brokers astute enough to highlight that option when it exists on the boat they're hawking?

If not, it might be easy enough to check the hull number with NT to see if that option was included in a given build...

I'd guess adding the actual aircon afterwards would be no big deal.

And adding a genset, probably similar to a factory installation, wouldn't normally be a big deal either.

Assuming initial boat cost is right...

Bligh mentions an NT message board; seems like a good idea to be all over that, too. We often have wannabees join our own owners club prior to buying, and afterwards most have been pleased with the insights they garnered along the way...

-Chris

 

[Adelaide]

There is an excellent 2004 32' NT for sale in SF that the wife and I considered.
It was very nice, with a flybridge, but the gentleman wanted $198K for it.
Probably not a bad price, but slightly out of my price range for a 32.
For a few more bucks I can get a 37 NT.



AC didn't work.

You found a beautiful mid- 2000's Nordic Tug for a bargain price, 10's of thousands of dollars less than the $198K local California boat, even with the 11K shipping cost.... You're worried about a running generator that stalled after 10 minutes? The AC is relatively cheap to replace/repair and a non-issue. Joe, Your broker should demand the seller have a complete check out of the generator to get it in working condition, he should also drop the price of the boat by the amount a new AC install..... You're buying a used boat, don't forget that.

 

[Robster_in_edmonds]

Run away from this boat. When you spend over a grand "troubleshooting" and things still don't work you have a big problem. The suspicious side of me thinks the boat has spent time under water. Are all of the electronics pretty new? On a lightly-used ten year old boat that would strike me as odd. Why else would all of the mechanicals, like the cutlass bearing, have to be repaired?

Even if that is not the case the broker let you fly out on your own dime to see a boat that doesn't work. The surveyor sends his least experienced person to see the boat? If the generator issue was something simple, why didn't the mechanic fix it?

There is something very wrong with that boat. Run away.

 

[BandB]

Run away from this boat. When you spend over a grand "troubleshooting" and things still don't work you have a big problem. The suspicious side of me thinks the boat has spent time under water. Are all of the electronics pretty new? On a lightly-used ten year old boat that would strike me as odd. Why else would all of the mechanicals, like the cutlass bearing, have to be repaired?

Even if that is not the case the broker let you fly out on your own dime to see a boat that doesn't work. The surveyor sends his least experienced person to see the boat? If the generator issue was something simple, why didn't the mechanic fix it?

There is something very wrong with that boat. Run away.

Mechanic could have just been incompetent. I would not assume there is a big problem just because the mechanic failed to fix it right unless I knew a lot more about who worked on it. Now, I wouldn't follow through as is. My price reduction would be based on new AC and new Generator until shown they could be repaired. And I think there were things concerning the OP before. Already had cold feet. If it doesn't feel right, you just walk away. Most of the time you'll find out later your feelings were right even though it might be something entirely different from the problems noted.

When purchasing something big I often start with a bit of testing of the seller or salesperson. I ask enough questions to get a sense of comfort or discomfort. Often questions I already know the answers to but are they answered straightforward or does he dance a bit. Through a lot of experience, I'll know in 15 minutes whether to trust the information. In this situation, I would have asked to see the invoices, and asked if I could talk to the mechanic. I would have asked more details about the boat and seen if pieces fit. I look for logical explanations. For instance, explain the hours. Don't give me some stock answer, the owner just didn't have time. Show me you know more about the owner than that. All the work they claimed was just completed, I'd ask why it was done. On small lake boats the place I'd catch more salesmen than any was the speed they'd quote. I once had a salesman tell me at a boat show a boat would do over 60 mph. I asked if he'd guarantee that. No, I can't as there can be some difference boat to boat. So, I said guarantee 55 then. Nope. 50 then? Nope. That's when I told him that my friend had one identical, great boat, normally WOT was 42 but the most it had ever hit was 45. And I walked away.

I have insisted before on talking to someone different if I was going to talk further.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

You found a beautiful mid- 2000's Nordic Tug for a bargain price, 10's of thousands of dollars less than the $198K local California boat, even with the 11K shipping cost.... You're worried about a running generator that stalled after 10 minutes? The AC is relatively cheap to replace/repair and a non-issue. Joe, Your broker should demand the seller have a complete check out of the generator to get it in working condition, he should also drop the price of the boat by the amount a new AC install..... You're buying a used boat, don't forget that.

I agree. You can run away from this boat if you want. But neither you nor the fear mongers posting replies have any real idea what the true problems are yet. And some of it is just wild conjecture. Like the boat was sunk. Really!?

If you get some independent eyes in there, like an A/C company and a Genset mechanic to you tell you the real deal you could end up saving thousands more and perhaps end up with new equipment.

You'll never know how motivated they are to get rid of this boat till you make an adjusted offer. In this market I'd guess they are very motivated to get rid of stock on hand.

But if your just not feeling it then move on I guess.

 

[Moonstruck]

You'll never know how motivated they are to get rid of this boat till you make an adjusted offer. In this market I'd guess they are very motivated to get rid of stock on hand.

But if your just not feeling it then move on I guess.

I will not try to advise, but tell what I would probably do. In all probability I would ask to extend the contract to give time to cure, but if not cured deduct the cost of the new systems. In any event I would ask for the extra expense of the delay and any extra trip.

 

[BandB]

I agree. You can run away from this boat if you want. But neither you nor the fear mongers posting replies have any real idea what the true problems are yet.

But if your just not feeling it then move on I guess.

Really, you don't walk away because a genset and air conditioner don't work when you don't even know the problem or cost. They're easily fixed, although not necessarily cheaply fixed. That would only be a deal killer if the owner said take it as it is now at the original price or it's over. I've asked how the sea trial went twice but seen no answer. Obviously the buyer was very much borderline in his desire and it took little to push him off the boat. When you really want it you do everything to make it happen. When you don't want it, you find everything to allow you to say no. The repairs may be $2000 or $15000, but neither would generally make a deal impossible.

 

[pilothouse king]

Buyer is from California where the weather is cool with little to no humidity gets off a plane in August in Ft. Lauderdale, and right out the airport door you feel like somebody threw a soaking wet wool blanket over you. It's truly smothering. Then you go to a boat that was expecting you and the ac isn't ice cold? Right off the bat, one's normal survival instincts say "flee". Throw in the unfamiliarity of the surrounding, and guys you've never met, who are chummy with each other? Again: flee.
I certainly understand buyers reluctance. The brokerage totally dropped the ball in preparing for the buyer! The boat should had been waiting under cover with the interior ice cold, and bottles of ice water waiting.
THAT all said, he can make any offer he finds comfortable with after his experience, and likely they will take it. That's not a popular (rather a unknown to local buyers) boat in South Florida, nor for export. They know this.

 

[Adelaide]

Really, you don't walk away because a genset and air conditioner don't work when you don't even know the problem or cost. They're easily fixed, although not necessarily cheaply fixed. That would only be a deal killer if the owner said take it as it is now at the original price or it's over. I've asked how the sea trial went twice but seen no answer. Obviously the buyer was very much borderline in his desire and it took little to push him off the boat. When you really want it you do everything to make it happen. When you don't want it, you find everything to allow you to say no. The repairs may be $2000 or $15000, but neither would generally make a deal impossible.

Many are in love with the "idea of buying a boat". Those that are, often survey a boat to look for a reason to not buy the boat. Surveys should be used as a fact finding mission and for negotiations on a boat you are intending to purchase. Wasting money to look for a reason to not buy a boat, is just that, a waste. The AC unit is an accessory like the chart plotter or radar. Something that should be negotiated/fixed, but not something that should cause a buyer to run away.....

 

[magicbus]

Buyer is from California where the weather is cool with little to no humidity gets off a plane in August in Ft. Lauderdale, and right out the airport door you feel like somebody threw a soaking wet wool blanket over you. It's truly smothering. Then you go to a boat that was expecting you and the ac isn't ice cold? Right off the bat, one's normal survival instincts say "flee". Throw in the unfamiliarity of the surrounding, and guys you've never met, who are chummy with each other? Again: flee.
I certainly understand buyers reluctance. The brokerage totally dropped the ball in preparing for the buyer! The boat should had been waiting under cover with the interior ice cold, and bottles of ice water waiting.

Well said.

Dave

 

[sunchaser]

Musings:

I believe tunajoe said the engines would not reach full RPM because there was too much fuel in the tanks.

Don't worry Joe, with your money and our great ability to fix things via the internet all is well.

With all the cars, trucks, boats, houses and horses I've bought over the years first impressions were very important.

Yup, the exterior fitting was seen and noticed as cartoonish.

How much does a single 12000 BTU AC cost installed in SoCal, that is all you'll need and for the dock only. When cruisng you wouldn't run it anyway so the need for a genset is not a biggie.

Have you considered a GB 32? Better made bost but older.

 

[janice142]

If it doesn't feel right, you just walk away. Most of the time you'll find out later your feelings were right even though it might be something entirely different from the problems noted.

There is something to be said for intuition. And frankly my biggest concern isn't the boat systems. It's the broker. A professional would not have allowed a potential buyer to get on a flight without confirming the work (receipts shown) was done and everything works.

For six-figures, well, I expect everything to work. However, one of the members here posted something once that might be of interest to you:

I remember coming to grips with the notion that I could spend six digits on a boat and still come home with a fixer upper. 6-Pack on TrawlerForum.

A Nordic32 is a pretty girl. I had the 28'er in my sights for a time.

 

[Edelweiss]

There is something to be said for intuition. And frankly my biggest concern isn't the boat systems. It's the broker. A professional would not have allowed a potential buyer to get on a flight without confirming the work (receipts shown) was done and everything works.

How true!! I've walked away from more than one deal because I had a bad feeling about the deal, feeling that I was being hustled, the "tag team" salesmen and sales manager approach, or misrepresentation of an item. Especially salesmen who use phrases like, "You can trust me", "I wouldn't tell you this if it wasn't true," or "This boat is such a good deal, I wanted my son to buy it," puts me immediately on BS alert.

The point that you have non working systems, even after the broker claims he spent significant boat dollars to make it right, suggests it's a fixer upper. Plus you've noted some amateurish attempts at repair and misrepresentation of the boats performance. One can only wonder what else might be wrong?

 

[BandB]

Musings:

I believe tunajoe said the engines would not reach full RPM because there was too much fuel in the tanks.

Yes and he never explained that in spite of questions. Never responded to questions about the sea trial or other issues. I'd be far more concerned with the engines not reaching full RPM than with the generator or air conditioning.

 

[BandB]

Buyer is from California where the weather is cool with little to no humidity gets off a plane in August in Ft. Lauderdale, and right out the airport door you feel like somebody threw a soaking wet wool blanket over you. It's truly smothering. Then you go to a boat that was expecting you and the ac isn't ice cold? Right off the bat, one's normal survival instincts say "flee". Throw in the unfamiliarity of the surrounding, and guys you've never met, who are chummy with each other? Again: flee.
I certainly understand buyers reluctance. The brokerage totally dropped the ball in preparing for the buyer! The boat should had been waiting under cover with the interior ice cold, and bottles of ice water waiting.
THAT all said, he can make any offer he finds comfortable with after his experience, and likely they will take it. That's not a popular (rather a unknown to local buyers) boat in South Florida, nor for export. They know this.

I had to laugh. Today we're in the PNW and we always have a climate shock here vs. Fort Lauderdale. Their warm summer days seem more like our winters.

Trying to remember the last time I saw a Nordic Tug on the ICW in Fort Lauderdale. I don't imagine Riva's would sell well in Seattle. May explain why their only West Coast location is San Diego. Now Nordic Tug does actually have a Fort Lauderdale dealer.

One thing I've always suggested to new buyers is to look at the marinas they would consider home and see what boats the owners there have. That gives you an idea of those most popular for that area.

That's one thing I would have insisted on is the history of the boat. When a Nordic Tug ends up for sale by a broker in Fort Lauderdale there is probably an interesting story of how it got from build to there.

 

[psneeld]

There are quite a few Nordics on the East Coast and people wanting a lot of walk thrus will take them to popular spots like Newport, Annapolis or Ft Lauderdale. Plus wasn't this a brokerage boat... as maybe a trade in?

Plus...nah..I would never judge the average popular boat in a marina as a "recommended boat for the area"...there are just too many variables and the average boater is just that...the average boater. If you are then maybe it's a good idea..but a trawler guy walking into 99% f the east coast marinas isn't likely to see a majority of trawlers. And a sportfish guy doesn't see nearly as many sportfsh in Annapolis or Oriental, NC compared to Cape May, Ocean City, Md, Beaufort, NC, etc...nor would a sailor find passagemakers in backwaters marinas.

Now in really out of the way places...some of the PNW, including most of BC and Alaska....3rd world countries, etc..sure local boats/hull types may be the best suited...but most of the US based on all the possibilities....nah...I'll stick to research from people who are doing what I want to do with a boat..even if I stay local with it.

 

[Marin]

....would never judge the average popular boat in a marina as a "recommended boat for the area"...there are just too many variables and the average boater is just that...the average boater.

Actually, I think BandB had a good suggestion there, although I do agree with psneeld's "average popular boat" statement, too.

While it might take more time than an eager, impatient, potential boat buyer would want to spend, I think the notion of talking to the "serious" cruisers in a marina or a particular region would tend to steer one toward the kind of boats best suited for that area.

For example, what do the charter outfits have, and what are their most popular boats? A good local surveyor can be a useful source of advice, too, for what kind of boats are best suited for a particular area. I can think of a couple of surveyors up here we've used who, were we new or inexperienced boaters in this area, would be well worth talking to for advice as to what makes and models of boats work well for cruising these waters and have plenty of locally available support from yards that are experienced with them to engine shops and so on.

A number of boats work equally well across the spectrum of coastal cruisng waters. Nordic Tugs are certainly one of them. But make-specific things like manufacturer support, dealer support, engine and generator support, and so on can have an impact on the experience a boater has with a particular boat.

In this area makes like Tollycraft, Bayliner/Meridian, Grand Banks, Nordic Tug, American Tug, Selene, Krogen, Nordhavn and Fleming come to mind as boats that are well suited for the waters between here up through SE Alaksa and that an owner can get help with (if needed) even if it's a real old boat (like ours).

If my wife and I wanted to cruise more open waters than we do, out in the Pacific itself for example, we would not have selected a boat like a Grand Banks. There are a number of reasons for this, not the least of which is the way the hull behaves in rougher water. For "out there", unless we were going to be in a big hurry all the time, a displacement boat like a Krogen (or a sailboat) would have been on our list.

 

[Ski in NC]

I also question getting a 32' tug type trawler. I have found the DE, cruiser, trawler, SF boats below 35 to be cramped both for folks and machinery. I know there are exceptions, and have never been on a NT32, but in general in that size things get cramped both when cruising and when working on it.

 

[BandB]

I also question getting a 32' tug type trawler. I have found the DE, cruiser, trawler, SF boats below 35 to be cramped both for folks and machinery. I know there are exceptions, and have never been on a NT32, but in general in that size things get cramped both when cruising and when working on it.

It all depends on the intended use. A lot of couples are very happy with small tugs for weekend cruising and even vacations with just the two of them. I see the NT32 as a two person boat. But it will handle the PNW waters better than many boats it's size and can be less expensive to operate and to dock. Some like small, simple and easy. I don't know the OP and his plans.

 

[magicbus]

I agree. There are definitely times I think I would enjoy less boat and less systems. It's why boats come in different sizes!

Dave

 

[ksanders]

To me it sounds like the OP didn't really want the boat, or doesn't understand boat maintenance.

A generator that dies when a load is appied could easily be (and is likely to be) something as simple as a fuel filter issue. Rarely will a generator engine that runs, just die because of something really expensive.

You can buy a AC unit at defender.com or west marine. Power, two seawater hoses, thermostat wires and a air duct and thats pretty well it. A afternoon job for almost any DYI guy, and less for a mechanic. AC units cost what a couple grand?

Used boats are used boats. The way I look at it little things found at survey are mine to fix as the buyer. Big things are the basis for negotiation.

Only after negotiation fails is the boat rejected outright.

Unless you didnt want it at all, then why waste your time and money on a survey.

 

[magicbus]

Well in all fairness the survey and the first visit by the OP did bring to light a number of issues he didn't expect after flying 3000 miles. Genset failure. AC failure. Some breaker tripping. Failed WOT test. Questionable repairs one using silicone in the completely wrong application. Easy to say this is trivial stuff but he was told all was fixed and shown receipts and still the same things were broken when he got there.

Sure it's a boat and something will always be broken, but seems like something isn't ringing true here.

Dave

 

[sunchaser]

Everybody has their own criteria. 2 1/2 years ago I walked from a boat deal because the owner, not sales broker, pi$$ed me off over minor financial shenanigans that went on and on. Trying to force a toy boat deal to me is not wise, it is either there or not.

 

[CPseudonym]

2 1/2 years ago I walked from a boat deal because the owner, not sales broker, pi$$ed me off over minor financial shenanigans that went on and on.

Must have been contagious as roughly 6 months after that I walked on a GB-36 for almost the exact same reason. In our case it was a minor shenanigan that I never gave the owner a chance to repeat.

Boat was fine, the owner was a twit.


Moral seems to be don't pi$$ off the buyer of a purely recreational item.

 

[hollywood8118]

Run away from this boat. When you spend over a grand "troubleshooting" and things still don't work you have a big problem. The suspicious side of me thinks the boat has spent time under water. Are all of the electronics pretty new? On a lightly-used ten year old boat that would strike me as odd. Why else would all of the mechanicals, like the cutlass bearing, have to be repaired?

Even if that is not the case the broker let you fly out on your own dime to see a boat that doesn't work. The surveyor sends his least experienced person to see the boat? If the generator issue was something simple, why didn't the mechanic fix it?

There is something very wrong with that boat. Run away.

Wow.. you must be physic.. to diagnose the boat as previously sunk.. all the way from the west Coast.

It is a USED boat with low hours that has by the sound of it been taken fairly good care of.. if the Purchaser wants a PERFECT boat.. buy new.. then spend a year having the Builder fix all the issues.

If the genset ran.. produced AC, then shut down after 10 minutes it could be something as simple as a bad pressure switch.. the thing just needs to be fixed.. end of story. Open up the wiring panel AT the genset and look for minor corrosion.. it could be something as simple as that ( ours did the SAME thing when we bought the Ocean Alexander.. it was a faulty $25.00 oil presser sender )If there is major corrosion that is a different matter.

Re Shipping. There is a boat leaving here next week.. 40' X 12.5' triple diesel engined fully enclosed cabin passenger boat headed to N. Carolina.. the shipping cost was quoted as $ 8800.00 not including the loading/unloading.

HOLLYWOOD