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Old 09-05-2014, 12:19 PM   #141
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Tunajoe's Avatar
City: Ventura
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Tatanka
Vessel Model: 32' Nordic Tug
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Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Maybe you're getting a bit more on target then. I think you expected in some ways too much of each of the boats you looked at. They're ten years old and have some flaws. Some will not have features others have. Generator not working or not having one is easily remedied for a price. Some of the other things might be as well. In one of the PNW boats if it was really clean and in good condition, you might have just said, it's going to cost me x for this and y for this so this amount is all I can offer.

I don't know the nature of the offer you're making now. Seems hard when you don't know the problems. How did everything else check out? How was the sea trial? Not just the rpm, how did you like the way it rode and handled? How was the oil analysis? Did the hull check out well, no water anywhere, no other problems? To me, engines and hull are the most likely deal breakers. Other things are broke and can be fixed and it's a matter of figuring out who fixes them and what it costs. On a boat like that I would anticipate 10%, $20,000, needing to be spent just as a general rule. Even those that are "pristine" are often found not to be quite so. First storm you find water your berth. Two weeks later you find a lot of sludge in a fuel tank.

I hope the boat works out for you and you enjoy it. It's tough when we build up long distance expectations and then we arrive and they're not met.

Wifey B: It's like finding your perfect match on and flying across the country only to find out the photo is 40 pounds and 5 years ago. Your temptation is just to say "Bye" and get on the next plane back home.

But then you decide you're there so at least go through with the date. You find over dinner she is everything you thought she was and she's embarrassed over the picture thing, asks you to forgive her, even says maybe this is the kick she needs to lose. The more time you're with her the more you realize she's so beautiful and what hit you at first just doesn't matter to you anymore. Then you get married and live happily ever after.

Just don't get your boat pregnant.

Thank you BandB.

Really, other than the Gen and AC, the boat was really clean and checked out well.

The last part of your post really made me laugh!

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Old 09-05-2014, 12:32 PM   #142
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City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,448
Originally Posted by Tunajoe View Post

I've looked at every NT on YW.....3 times. Most of the PNW boats don't have a generator. That was one of my main requirements. Maybe I'll re calibrate my requirements. I'd like a generator though.


I'd like SS portholes vs the black plastic ones, I'd like upgraded electronics. I want low hours. I don't want a pullman style berth. I want the ivory powder coated windows and doors. Not the black framed ones.
With kids, I have to have a transom hot water shower to hose them off.
I also don't want a "cut-up" boat. I want a boat that has minimal penetrations thru the sundeck or pilot house roof.

I think adding a genset afterwards -- especially given info on their own installs from the manufacturer -- isn't all that big a deal, if there's room to cram it into the builder's designated space without cutting the decks.

Replacing portlight frames, another no big deal I think.

Transom shower, probably easy.

Electronics will be obsolete anyway, if they're older than yesterday. If usable, you could take your time selecting a suite of replacements.

And so forth.

Offer price takes all that into account from the git-go. Modify downward, if surveys dictate.

We shopped on this boat (model) all over the east coast. We needed an electric windlass and a swim platform, and I wanted 450s vs. 370s. Had to be 2002 or newer (due to some changes after the earliest model years).

Turns out, it was easier and less expensive to buy the one 15 miles away that came on the market sometime during our search, even though we had to add the windlass and swim platform ourselves. Not hard.

The enclosure was on it's last legs, as was outdoor carpeting; we replaced. Our offer took all that into account.

From the marine survey, we learned (and saw for ourselves, anyway) the engine room needed some TLC. From the mechanical survey, we learned the mains were due for valve adjustments and aftercooler/turbo service, yaddy yaddy yadda. Subsequent negotiation ensued.

We got a boat. Had all the engine work done, and had the aforementioned windlass and swim platform installed, using money we didn't spend on the purchase or on long-distance transport. Took us 40 minutes to drive the boat from that marina to our slip.

We used the obsolete electronics for a about three years, while I studied the problem. Then we did a major refit, knowing exactly what we wanted.


South River, Chesapeake Bay
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Old 09-06-2014, 11:01 AM   #143
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Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
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Originally Posted by Tunajoe View Post
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Point taken about making an offer based on pictures and what the broker is telling me. But in fairness, he did send me approx. 100 pictures of the whole boat.

This was my first use of a surveyor, and the important thing I learned is what I think is a deal breaker may differ with what the surveyor thinks is a deal breaker. I'd much rather look at it myself, in person.

That's a good way of looking at things in regards to the survey; a snapshot good and bad.
I don't really feel like the survey was wasted money though. I learned alot about the boats, I learned that all surveyors are not created equal, and now, If I go look at any other boats, I'll have an idea on how to go about evaluating the boat.
I'll also be sure and personally speak to the surveyor and ask him what the survey involves and what he looks for, and if he's familiar with the NTs.

Your wrong about arriving at the boat and being disappointed. I was actually suprised at the great condition of the boat. I expected the gel coat to be cooked from the south florida sun. The boat looked new. The boat exceeded my expectations condition/wear wise and cosmetically.

I did start to get cold feet and probably threw in the towel too soon. Chalk it up to inexperience.
It was weird though, when things didn't work, nobody wanted to talk about it. I expected the broker to say "hey Joe, I know your dissapointed that things didn't work proper. What can we do to make you comfortable and make this deal happen?"
The broker gave me a tour of FT Lauderdale after the survey and I must have brought up the boat 3 times with no reply from him.
I must have asked the diesel surveyor 3 times " hey, what's up with the generator?"
I also was concerned about my deposit and being rushed to make a decision on the boat. The contract clearly stated I had to reject/accept the boat by a certain date in writing. And the broker was crystal clear about meeting deadlines on the contract.

I want to thank everyone who offered advice and suggestions.
This is a great forum, and I'll be sure and let everyone know what happens.

Joe, the good thing is that you are learning. Thats invaluable!

Let me tell you a story...

In 2003 we made an offer on a 3488 Bayliner. I hired Cummins Northwest to do a mechanical survey, which we scheduled along with the sea trial.

With the two factory rep technicians on board they were working the boat hard with their gauges hooked to the engines, when all the sudden the starboard engine overheats and is blown. High blow by. Engine was toast.

My wife basically said, well thats it, well look for another boat.

I said, no lets get a new engine out of this.

And we did. We closed on that boat a month later with a brand new reman engine.

I will say that in the end, I did not like that boat. It was impossible to maintain the engines due to the cramped spaces. My mistake. I sold the boat three years later, glad to be done with it.

That was part of our learning curve.

The NT you looked at was part of your learning curve. You'll get the process figured out, and have plenty of adventures, (and some challenges) in your new boat.
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:16 AM   #144
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City: Powell River, BC
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The tough part will be the ivory port frames. They are rare. Might want to find out from NT how many of those were built.

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