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Old 09-02-2014, 05:03 PM   #41
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I agree with nearly all the posters here. . . Sounds like lot's of red flags and I can understand your concerns!! Keep in mind this brokerage is the "Seller" in this case and is "NOT" an independent broker who is trying to hook up a seller and a buyer to earn a commission.

A local surveyor is like everybody else in that boating community and they won't "bite the hand that feeds them", especially on a brokerage owned boat! Those that do, won't be on the brokerage surveyor referral list very long. Review the survey results, maybe have someone else look at it and do a walk through of the boat to see how thorough and objective the survey report was. If you're still not happy with the deal, walk away.

Lot's of used NT's for sale on my dock in Cap Santa Marina in Anacortes. Just saying!!

PS: The way the receipts were written, it sounds like the brokerage bought parts and had their knuckledragger install them. That may be a concern, without knowing his skill level??
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:23 PM   #42
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Looking online I did see a number in the PNW. Seems like shipping would be a bit less than from FL to CA but it got me wondering about standard equipment. I guess the OP might need AC if in SoCal, but do the PNW boats typically come with AC or diesel heat. I guess a heat pump would be ideal as ours are great. I was mostly wondering if an east coast boat might be different.

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Old 09-02-2014, 05:36 PM   #43
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I too would not freak out over these things. Give them a chance to fix issues, then hire a surveyor from maybe 20 miles away to do a quick check and make sure the issues are truly fixed. A surveyor from the next town is likely not in bed with the broker. Saves airfare.

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By the way, where is this picture of the siliconed thru hull?
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:03 PM   #44
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,...but do the PNW boats typically come with AC or diesel heat.
PNW boats don't come with either one unless the oriignal buyer specified it with the manufacturer. But most PNW cruisers have heat of some sort. But unless the boat was ordered new with it, it's almost always an add-on.

I've heard of a few boats here that had air conditioning, but it's very rare. Particularly in a boat that's going to stay in this area. Boaters with open-ocean boats that go or are going to go to SoCal or Mexico may have AC installed, however.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:12 PM   #45
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Looking online I did see a number in the PNW. Seems like shipping would be a bit less than from FL to CA but it got me wondering about standard equipment. Dave
The NT's are built here in Burlington, Wa, so they are more likely to have a heat source than AC. I've never seen one with AC here, but I'm sure they are out there. Most likely an option or maybe dealer installed accessory.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:14 PM   #46
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By the way, where is this picture of the siliconed thru hull?
The OP posted a series of shots back on page one. I think the last one was the thru hull.

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Old 09-02-2014, 09:27 PM   #47
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Sounds silly to buy a NT in FL and truck it to CA. Given the issues uncovered so far walk away. I once saved around 30K (estimated) by walking and it only cost me 800.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:48 PM   #48
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Wow! what a great forum this is. A tremendous amount of helpful advice.
Thank you!

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The code displayed by the AC should give a clue as to the extent of that issue.
It did have a code that I looked up. Low freon pressure. One month ago, the repair center "troubleshot it" for almost $1200 bucks. I'm not sure it's even wired correctly. A friend said an AC unit is fairly easy to replace. Can anyone with experience confirm this?
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I think you are wise to exercise caution. There are often complex and longstanding relationships between brokers and surveyors, many financial in nature. Read your offer contract carefully. If it is standard Florida language, it says that immediately following vessel acceptance, the contract converts to an "as is" contract under Florida law. What does that mean? It means the seller, the broker, and the surveyor are absolved of any liability, even if they did not disclose the truth to you about the vessel. A good friend of mine was just burned when he purchased a vessel with leaking fuel tanks that the seller hid, and the surveyor did not find. As the admiral of our ship likes to say, "doubt means don't".

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That's exactly what my contract reads.
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Joe, I agree with the above poster, this is a great opportunity to reduce the price of the boat substantially. This is part of the game when you purchase any boat through a brokerage. Just remember, this is a business decision for you, don't fall in love with a boat before you own it. It's always easier to buy than it is to sell. I am curious about one thing, why are you looking to Florida for a boat? Nordic Tugs are built on the West Coast (walking distance from my marina) Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
What would you consider a decent reduction in price? I called today for a price on a new Onan gen and it retails for about $8400. Installation not included.
I've looked at every NT on YWorld. Most late models are out of my range financially. Most NW NT's don't have a generator and I find the NT's in the NW are more expensive.
The one in Florida is nice because it's low hours, has a generator, has great electronics (14" MFD), isn't cut-up by the PO, and has most of the options I wanted from the factory. Also the price was very good.

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What Dave said.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:57 PM   #49
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By the way, where is this picture of the siliconed thru hull?
I had the Moderator take the pictures down till I get my deposit back.
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PNW boats don't come with either one unless the oriignal buyer specified it with the manufacturer. But most PNW cruisers have heat of some sort. But unless the boat was ordered new with it, it's almost always an add-on.

I've heard of a few boats here that had air conditioning, but it's very rare. Particularly in a boat that's going to stay in this area. Boaters with open-ocean boats that go or are going to go to SoCal or Mexico may have AC installed, however.
The boat came with everything set up by the factory for aftermarket AC units. Ductwork, plenum, vents, and wiring. It was an option NT offers.
The boat also has the factory HeaterCraft heater which worked great.

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Sounds silly to buy a NT in FL and truck it to CA. Given the issues uncovered so far walk away. I once saved around 30K (estimated) by walking and it only cost me 800.
Why is it silly? I've owned 5 boats and all but one of them were shipped from the East coast. We just don't have the same volume of quality boats out here in California plus you can save some serious money.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:09 PM   #50
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I sent the rejection of vessel letter today.
I'll be curious to see if they come back to me with some sort of offer.
I also received all the survey reports from the Diesel surveyor and the general surveyor.
The Diesel Survey report said the generator ran for 10 minutes and then when attempting to load test it died.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:12 PM   #51
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Most NW NT's don't have a generator and I find the NT's in the NW are more expensive.
Don't know about the generator bit, but one reason Nordic Tugs tend to be more expensive in the PNW is because the good cruising grounds here make them more in demand.

It's one reason when we were shopping for our own boat our broker looked in California, too. Given the same make, model, and condition, boats were many thousands less in California because the cruising opportunities are not as varied and plentiful so there was a lower demand for the type of boat we wanted.

I have no idea what it costs to truck a boat across the US compared to down from the PNW. Be interesting to know if the cross-country trucking cost would equal the increase in purchase cost and considerably lower trucking cost for a boat from the PNW.

I may be totally off base with my observation, but it seems like more and more boats are going up for sale as the baby boomers start to get up in years where dealing with a boat becomes too much of a hassle or effort. The point being that while there may not be the kind of boat you want on the market right now today, the chances seem to be getting better that there will be one in the not-too-distant future.

There are a couple of ways to deal with the no-generator issue on a boat. One is to buy a diesel unit and have it installed. The other is to do what Al suggested in another thread and buy a portable Honda generator. Yes, you have to find a safe place to keep it and its fuel. But it can get you the generating capacigty you need for a fraction of the price of an installed diesel unit. And the newer generations of Hondas are very quiet.

Another advantage of the portable unit is that you don't crowd up your engine room, which in a 32 foot boat is going to be pretty crowded as it is, even with just one engine.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:14 PM   #52
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Make a take it or leave it counteroffer for $5K or so less and head to Anacortes. If they accept you'll need a place to launch. If they refuse you'll be at the NordicTug mother ship. Like Nordstroms for boats.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:17 PM   #53
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Pulling out is wise if it doesn't feel right. After all, it's just a boat. Not like there's a shortage of them out there. I respect that your previous boats where east coast purchased but as boats get larger shipping prices increase along with out of pocket costs associated with shipping. I fought the urge tooth and nail to buy a wrong coast boat, temptation is a strong thing though.

Good luck in your quest.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:33 PM   #54
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Tunajoe, they messed you around, they know that, you should assume they may know the survey reports(they should not), now see if they come back. Was the mech surveyor any more help than "genset died after 10 minutes"? No diagnosis at all?
If they come back and make sense on a deal, depending what you think of the Reports you now have (not a lot, you are walking), start with a fresh survey. Ask for help here with surveyor recommendations, you are sure to get them.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:12 AM   #55
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Don't know about the generator bit, but one reason Nordic Tugs tend to be more expensive in the PNW is because the good cruising grounds here make them more in demand.

It's one reason when we were shopping for our own boat our broker looked in California, too. Given the same make, model, and condition, boats were many thousands less in California because the cruising opportunities are not as varied and plentiful so there was a lower demand for the type of boat we wanted.

I have no idea what it costs to truck a boat across the US compared to down from the PNW. Be interesting to know if the cross-country trucking cost would equal the increase in purchase cost and considerably lower trucking cost for a boat from the PNW.

I may be totally off base with my observation, but it seems like more and more boats are going up for sale as the baby boomers start to get up in years where dealing with a boat becomes too much of a hassle or effort. The point being that while there may not be the kind of boat you want on the market right now today, the chances seem to be getting better that there will be one in the not-too-distant future.

There are a couple of ways to deal with the no-generator issue on a boat. One is to buy a diesel unit and have it installed. The other is to do what Al suggested in another thread and buy a portable Honda generator. Yes, you have to find a safe place to keep it and its fuel. But it can get you the generating capacigty you need for a fraction of the price of an installed diesel unit. And the newer generations of Hondas are very quiet.

Another advantage of the portable unit is that you don't crowd up your engine room, which in a 32 foot boat is going to be pretty crowded as it is, even with just one engine.
The bids to ship from South Florida to Ventura, CA ranged from $10,000 to $11,000.

Wise words Marin regarding whats available now vs the future. The wife and I really fell in love with this particular boat, but realize there are more of them out there. And if you wait around long enough, another good one will pop up.

I've owned a boat without a generator and did the Honda 2KW portable thing. It worked great.
I just feel if I'm going to pay this much money for a boat, it should come with a generator. Maybe it's not really necessary?
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:22 AM   #56
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A lot of boats in this class function just fine with no generator. However if AC is considered "mandatory" so is a generator.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:25 AM   #57
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:31 AM   #58
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Make a take it or leave it counteroffer for $5K or so less and head to Anacortes. If they accept you'll need a place to launch. If they refuse you'll be at the NordicTug mother ship. Like Nordstroms for boats.
Ha! I was going to tell them to knock 10 Grand off the price and I'll take it "as is". That was before I got the price for a new generator!

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Pulling out is wise if it doesn't feel right. After all, it's just a boat. Not like there's a shortage of them out there. I respect that your previous boats where east coast purchased but as boats get larger shipping prices increase along with out of pocket costs associated with shipping. I fought the urge tooth and nail to buy a wrong coast boat, temptation is a strong thing though.

Good luck in your quest.
Temptation is strong, isn't it!
It's funny, On the flight over to Florida, I told myself if the boat checks out I'm buying it. I also told myself, if one problem arises with any of the major systems, I walk.
I was actually relieved when the AC and the gennie didn't work.
It was my "out" while saving face.
I sure was dazzled by how great the boat looked though. Like it had never been used.
Weird, but I'm relieved, yet bummed

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Tunajoe, they messed you around, they know that, you should assume they may know the survey reports(they should not), now see if they come back. Was the mech surveyor any more help than "genset died after 10 minutes"? No diagnosis at all?
If they come back and make sense on a deal, depending what you think of the Reports you now have (not a lot, you are walking), start with a fresh survey. Ask for help here with surveyor recommendations, you are sure to get them.
Bruce, the diesel guy was going to send it to the broker and I told him absolutely not.
The other general surveyor was a good guy, and you could tell he had surveyed many boats. But maybe I'm just a detailed oriented guy and he's not.
Maybe the heat/humidity was getting to him.
I spent the afternoon pointing quite a few things out, including the leaky toilet, lack of sealant around the wire intrusions, the badly sealed thru hull ( on both sides of the boat), I had to insist on him bringing a moisture meter.
He did discover a few things, none that were deal breakers though.
I noticed when I lifted the outside rear storage locker that the spring lift was broken. I didn't say anything so I could see if it would come up on the report. It didn't.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:33 AM   #59
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I just feel if I'm going to pay this much money for a boat, it should come with a generator. Maybe it's not really necessary?
Well, you'll pay however much less if it doesn't have a generator and however much more if it does. It's been my observation that the price of a boat (or a car or....) varies with the equipment it comes with.

As to whether you need one or not...

The Grand Banks we chartered before buying our own had an inverter but no generator. We rarely used the inverter and didn't miss the generator. The much older Grand Banks we bought has a generator of the same vintage as the boat-- an Onan 7.5kw MDJE- which is way over-kill for our boat but it's what they used back then.

Having had this boat for 16 years now, I have to say that we are very happy that it has a generator even though it's cost us a few thousand in repairs over the years. We use it to heat water and throw a charge back into the batteries during a cruise on the days we don't go anywhere on the main engines. Our galley is propane, so we only have need to run the generator for an hour or so on the days we use it.

It makes for a more crowded engine room, what with two propulsion diesels down there, too, but so far the lack of space has not been an issue. The previous owner replaced all the fuel tanks and the new arrangement gave more space in the engine room than had been there previously, so that's helpful.

So I would say that a generator is on the "must have" list if we were to go shopping for a used boat to replace this one. We certainly wouldn't need one as powerful as we have now. A nice little 5kw Northern Lights unit would be ideal. But we would still want a propane galley and we have no need of air conditioning up here.

If you do want air conditioning then I would think a generator of some sort would be pretty essential unless you anticipate always being on a dock with ground power wherever you go.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:04 AM   #60
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Not sure if it helps, but the scuttlebutt from some of the NT sellers the SFbay area is they are pretty frustrated that they cant sell their boats. Any offers, no matter how low, on boats up here in the bay area would be carefully considered , I'm sure.

I read on the NT message board that one seller hasnt even had anyone look at his 32 since he put it up for sale!
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