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Old 09-02-2014, 09:40 AM   #21
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The code displayed by the AC should give a clue as to the extent of that issue.
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:57 AM   #22
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We went through several brokers and found most to be selling more than helping us find a boat. There is only one out of the 40+ ones we saw a boat with that I felt trustworthy. I assume my having owned several automotive businesses made me aware of salesman's tricks and evil ways. I used a surveyor I trusted and he protected me from several boats I actually liked. If you don't feel extra good about the boat walk away. There are more boats out there.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:11 AM   #23
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I think you are wise to exercise caution. There are often complex and longstanding relationships between brokers and surveyors, many financial in nature. Read your offer contract carefully. If it is standard Florida language, it says that immediately following vessel acceptance, the contract converts to an "as is" contract under Florida law. What does that mean? It means the seller, the broker, and the surveyor are absolved of any liability, even if they did not disclose the truth to you about the vessel. A good friend of mine was just burned when he purchased a vessel with leaking fuel tanks that the seller hid, and the surveyor did not find. As the admiral of our ship likes to say, "doubt means don't".

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Old 09-02-2014, 10:24 AM   #24
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This non functioning equipment needs to be repaired to your satisfaction. IMHO that would mean that everything operates perfectly for a reasonable time of trial. The absurd explanation of boat not performing at full operational level is just a method to get your money and say Bye Bye! You are involved in a boat purchase that is not a As-Is Where IS price. If the sales price were $100,000 you might do OK, but I would get out of this one. Or offer $50,000 less based on your inspection and see what they do!
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:26 AM   #25
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The next step, in my humble opinion is that the generator is compromised, so is the AC. There is no such thing as "probably a simple fix" when you just flew into view a boat. The bar is higher, so the result gets interpreted pretty simply. The generator and the AC is broke. The chance for fixing came and went. YOUR next step is to simply accommodate the issue in some way based on discount and then you use that money to pursue a fix somewhere else. I don't think it would be out of line to suggest that the boat should be discounted 60% of the value of a new generator and AC. They already had a shot at fixing, so now you assume they systems will need replacing-ish. Your not buying a new boat so you don't factor the full replace cost, but used equipment is not worth a lot value wise so the discount is substantial.

Joe, I agree with the above poster, this is a great opportunity to reduce the price of the boat substantially. This is part of the game when you purchase any boat through a brokerage. Just remember, this is a business decision for you, don't fall in love with a boat before you own it. It's always easier to buy than it is to sell. I am curious about one thing, why are you looking to Florida for a boat? Nordic Tugs are built on the West Coast (walking distance from my marina) Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:45 AM   #26
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If all of the repairs look like the sealing job on that through-hull I would be running away. I wonder how much moisture is absorbed into the hull around that fitting.

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What Dave said.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:01 AM   #27
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This smells bad. Instincts need to be heeded. There are a lot of boats out there.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:09 AM   #28
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Anyone that uses silicone on a boat hull is completely incompetent. Especially on a thru hull fitting. I think you are being lied to about all of the recent expenditures. Brokers are famous for coming up with crap like that. I'd walk if I were you. Being me, if I liked the boat I would turn there BS back on them and haggle them to death. But, I have no respect for boat brokers, and most surveyors for that matter. They'll still sell you the boat whether they like you or not. Brokers like $$$$$.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:34 AM   #29
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If you decide to try to go forward IMO you need to hire a reliable local representative to oversee everything and confirm that things are working properly before you fly back. Capt Bill is such a person, well experienced with boat systems.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:54 PM   #30
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We went through several brokers and found most to be selling more than helping us find a boat. There is only one out of the 40+ ones we saw a boat with that I felt trustworthy. .
Some people think there is some benefit in just going to the seller's broker for each boat. I do not. I think the better method is to find one broker you really feel you can trust, get them as your buyer's broker, When you're going from boat to boat and broker to broker they feel no obligation to you much of the time.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:58 PM   #31
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Can you spell L_E_M_O_N?!! For a boat with only 550 hours on it there are a lot of things going wrong with it. Perhaps the reason it has so few hours on it is because it spent all its time in the "garage". Additionally, the broker is not your friend....they just want the sale. I believe you are right about the broker and the surveyor being in cohoots...certainly was in my case. I had over $20K of work to do after all was signed and sealed on my boat that should have been picked up by the surveyor. And he knew to the dollar how much I had offered, when I asked for a valuation! And it was a strange dollar amount that nobody could have guessed.
As has been said....there are plenty of boats out there...choose one with less obvious problems, because they all have problems, even the best of them.

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Old 09-02-2014, 01:27 PM   #32
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Extend the contract and tell them to make the boat right and have them pay for return flight expenses. If the balk, walk. My 2 cents
I think Craig's summary is right on the money. In addition to taking his advice, I would suggest that if the seller accepts these conditions, that you have the boat surveyed again by somebody thorough and competent. Not someone who tells you "Probably a simple fix."

And if it was me, I would use two surveyors, one for the hull and systems and one for the engine and generator. Most of the really good surveyors we've experienced specialize in "hull" or "engine" although that does not mean a hull surveyor is ignorant of engine issues or the other way round.

Given the vast number of boats that are always on the market at any given time, as sunchaser says, there are always lots and lots of choices. While logistics may preclude you from getting a boat from the other side of the country, Nordic Tugs are a dime a dozen out here (so to speak). Partly because they're made here, and largely because they are so suitable for our cruising grounds which stretch 1,000 miles from Puget Sound up through BC and SE Alaska.

Trucking a boat, particularly a smaller one without a flying bridge, is not a staggeringly expensive proposition. We had our GB36 trucked from California to Washington in 1998. The flying bridge did not have to be removed, and the cost then was $4,000 including the pilot car. I'm not implying that trucking a boat across the country would be cheap, but it might get you a better boat than you can obtain locally if you're after a very specific make and model.

Walking away from a boat that just doesn't feel right will most likely save you far, far more money than whatever you spent going to look at the boat and having it surveyed. And I would say never, ever judge a boat's condition by photos. Photos are great to show you the configuration and basic "look" of the interior, engine room, etc. But everything looks way better in a photo than in person, even people.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:51 PM   #33
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I think Craig's summary is right on the money. In addition to taking his advice, I would suggest that if the seller accepts these conditions, that you have the boat surveyed again by somebody thorough and competent. Not someone who tells you "Probably a simple fix."
>>>>>

Given the vast number of boats that are always on the market at any given time>> But everything looks way better in a photo than in person, even people.
If you haven't checked the market lately, you might be surprised how slim the pickings now. Like the Real Estate market in South Florida, sales have SURGED. Many boats on Yachtworld are either sold, or deal pending. Why not post that fact you ask? Keeps their phone ringing is my guess.
Really not that much really good out there, and nobody is making any more used boats. What's built is built. The best boats on the East Coast have gone oversea's in the past 10 years. I look better in person! (so say's my wife who needs glasses I won't buy her!)
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:15 PM   #34
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If you haven't checked the market lately, you might be surprised how slim the pickings now.
Perhaps it's a regional thing. Out here you trip over a "for sale" boat every time you turn around. As sunchaser said, there are a bunch of NTs for sale just in Anacortes alone.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:22 PM   #35
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I'd be careful in overcomplicating your issues with the boat. Both the A/C and the Genset might be something simple that a filter change and sea strainer cleaning could fix those two.

Even the "grossly done thruhull" can be fixed for nothing and there might be a reason it wound up that way.

It is a used boat and if you can negotiate a price you can live with even making those repairs (and I would always want it that way than the PO doing it and maybe I'm not confident in the new repairs)..it may be a fair deal after all....
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:55 PM   #36
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I too would not freak out over these things. Give them a chance to fix issues, then hire a surveyor from maybe 20 miles away to do a quick check and make sure the issues are truly fixed. A surveyor from the next town is likely not in bed with the broker. Saves airfare.

Overpropped trawler?? Most of them are, anyway. No harm in it unless engine is run near the pins.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:55 PM   #37
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If the OP hasn't done so already. SENTOA.org is where one can find Nordic Tugs for sale by owner (and broker).
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:56 PM   #38
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Let's not be too quick to jump on the surveyor. The finished report hasn't yet been seen. I've known situations where surveyors were fairly gentle while doing the job but the report was a strongly negative one. Walking through no single thing was enough for them to say there's no need to even go further. But when compiling all the notes, they pointed to some very extensive problems.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:10 PM   #39
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Again...I find myself agreeing with PS.....sigh.... Get another survey, not a surveyor chosen by the broker/owner/possibly compromised "chooser". This guy did me solid, though there r many. Ed Rowe and Associates, Vero Beach 772-589-7346. He ain't my brother in law, kissin cousin or any connection but professionally I was impressed. The AC almost certainly is a March Pump, clogged strainer or in need of barnacle buster or an acid cooling water loop cleaning. Ed will tell you if you need an engine/mechanical survey. Then you can match up the surveys. I comment about the smell test, well it does have an aroma, b4 you pull the trigger find out. Or buy my Mainship. or what BandB said.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:14 PM   #40
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Sandy Boat? New interior, electrical issues, just a thought.
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