What value would you put on a 1983-84 Kha Shing Spindrift?

[cseitz91]

I am in the market finally! I recently looked at a 1983-84 Kha Shing Spindrift 40', because it was local and I met the owner who is a great guy. Anyways the skinny on the boat....
-twin volvos, one is toast!,
-in fresh water (somewhat fresh delta water)
- needs some major teak work on decks and inside
- front windows leaked, not bad, but the plywood is delaminating
- extremely faded gelcoat
- sun damage on entire railing
- needs paint basically on every external wood trim piece
- its at the harbor I want it at!
- had the shafts done, but before the motor went kurplunk


What I want the boat for: I am looking for a liveaboard trawler style boat. This boat has a sweet layout, and is essentially all I need. I don't mind a TLC boat at all, keeps me busy on weekends. What would you guys estimate a boat in this shape is worth? I would take pictures, but thats up to the owner and not to me. Any tips/advice/comments are greatly appreciated.

 

[AusCan]

Welcome cseitz!

I'd hate to rain on your party but....
To be honest, to me this sounds like a MAJOR project. If you brought it into a boatyard for the work to be done, your bill could easily be in excess of $100,000.
The work on the teak decks alone is likely to cost over $30,000.
If you have all the skills, and worked on it yourself every weekend, it would take many years to complete the repairs. In the end, it is likely the resale value wouldn't cover the money you invested in regardless of the initial purchase price.

You may think it is fine to live in as it is but in order to stay in a marina, insurance cover is required. Your insurance company will require a good survey inspection before they will insure the boat. There may be ways around this, but check it all carefully before comitting yourself, even if someone is giiving you a boat for free.

 

[psneeld]

Worth? A word often used in the "used" boat world that I have come to learn doesn't mean a thing.

First...many will tell you boats provide pleasure that is "worth" more than money...well these are the same guys that will beat you up when buying your boat because the stitching on the bimini cover looks "suspect".

For me...I knew my trawler was probably a throwaway...meaning I had to buy one in less than perfect shape and there was no way I was going to "restore" to original...to me not worth the time, money or aggravation. I had to move aboard and get on with life. When done with it in 20 years...if it brings money to my kids great,...if not...I'll have to will them the crush and dumpster charge. My guess it will bring something as it will be a functioning cruiser...just not spit and polish and approaching 50 years old at that point.

My boat had a relatively new rebuilt engine in her and the rest was as bad or worse than the boat you describe. I paid about 1/2 or $40,000 less than the others out there in "good" condition (+/- $90,000). After several years of slaving away on her...yes...I could probably get my money back out of her...but the sweat equity...no way. Auscan is correct that if I paid a yard to do the $50,000-$100,000 worth of work...I would certainly never get that back either.

My basic feel for project boats is that the boat you describe should be less than $50,000...maybe in the $30's due to the bad engine...maybe it's a bit higher because every other system is brand new...but that's a wild guess. Sometimes boat's worth is based as much on what other similar boats are around and what's their asking price. In two months that can change dramatically.

 

[cseitz91]

I couldn't agree more on in regards to the meaning of the word "worth". I wouldn't say that the electronics on the boat are new in anyway, so thats not a huge selling point for this boat. I don't mind the work involved, in fact I enjoy it, but I don't want to over pay for something. This is a new adventure for me, and I don't want to be swallowed by it in the long run. It not about making money with me, but I sure as hell don't want to lose a ton of money. The owner of the boat owes XXXXX dollars on it, so he has a set price in mind so he can pay it off. It seemed high to me because the of the condition of the boat. It might be in the sellers best interest to put some money in the boat before he sells it to try an recoup something.

 

[RickB]

It might be in the sellers best interest to put some money in the boat before he sells it to try an recoup something.

It would be far better for the owner to put that money into paying off what he owes rather than fantasize about recouping something if the boat ever sells.

 

[psneeld]

There was a 36 Albin near Annapolis that a broker told me wasn't a project boat...well it turned into one after I drove over to see it...

The broker confessed to a lot at that point after I glared at him...he mentioned that a guy had come in and offered $7000 for just the engine core...the boat could stay. Broker and owner said no way.

A couple of months later, after being laughed at by me and several other knowledgeable buyers (the guy was asking something like $39,000), the original guy came back...offered $6000 this time for the engine only again...the deal was made. Not sure who had to pay for the hull to be crushed up and hauled away.

Because I got some of the info from the very upset broker...I can't attest to all the details..but it sounds accurate...

Most sellers out there are in a dreamworld with these older trawlers in not very good shape...there aren't enough idiots like me to buy them all.

 

[Barco Sin Vela]

Following along with psneeld comment; I would think there's no telling what kind of bills the boat owes for past dockage or work performed.

 

[CPseudonym]

It's human nature to dig for bargains, I did too. But the truest advice shared with me when starting my search is "there ain't nothing more expensive than a cheap boat".

Not unlike psneeld above and many others I still get tempted by project boats but in the end am damn glad I didn't buy one. My hobby is boating not boat refurbishment. IMO every boat has enough little projects to keep a guy busy putzing around without starting out with a refit. My 2 cents.

 

[cseitz91]

Following along with psneeld comment; I would think there's no telling what kind of bills the boat owes for past dockage or work performed.

The boat is up to date as far as registration and dock fees go. The owner is an extremely busy person, and hasn't touched it in a year, just pays the fees, and it sits (in the slip I want haha).

 

[Adelaide]

The boat is up to date as far as registration and dock fees go. The owner is an extremely busy person, and hasn't touched it in a year, just pays the fees, and it sits (in the slip I want haha).

......With a bum engine. How much is he asking?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr./Ms. 91. Welcome aboard. Now come back down to earth for a sec'....Let me get this straight. So there's this really nice but very busy guy who has a boat he's neglected for a year (if not more), isn't interested in either maintenance OR repairs, owes a sum of money on it and wants YOU to pay for it? Hmmmm......What value would I put on the boat? $50K AT LEAST!!!! Maybe you can get HIM to pay YOU $40K (bit of a discount because he IS a nice guy) to take it off his hands.

 

[bligh]

out of curiosity , does anyone know the ballpark cost of rebuilding or replacing one of those volvos?

 

[bligh]

The owner of the boat owes XXXXX dollars on it, so he has a set price in mind so he can pay it off.

FYI: Owing a bank more than a boat is worth is very common, especially if maintenance has been neglected.

 

[cseitz91]

He said he owes $50k on it, and thats what he wants for it. I thought that was high for what the boat it, and its current state. From what I have been told Volvos are expensive to repair. I would ofcourse do it myself, but that doesn't make parts cheaper. Any ideas what a ball park would be for a boat like this? Another thing, the inserts around the small ports windows, and exhaust vents have little cracks around them in the gel coat. Is this something terribly bad say if moisture gets in the cracks, between the gellcoat and fiberglass?

 

[beachbum29]

Sounds like the owner needs to short sell this tub.

 

[Codger2]

But the truest advice shared with me when starting my search is "there ain't nothing more expensive than a cheap boat".
My hobby is boating not boat refurbishment.

The really sad part is that "Immediate Gratification" takes over and the desire to own a boat, any boat, rules what turns out to be a very bad decision.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
From your description, I would honestly say about $10K. Really. Aside from the blown engine: Major teak work on decks and inside....De laminated ply in forward sections....needs paint and what CAN'T you see? The owner has a junk boat and he's looking to offload it to some sucker-YOU! Ah, it has "new" shafts...Whoop-de-do! That's all of $5K right there. Not even having seen the boat, I would hazard a guess you would have to put at LEAST another $40K into it to get it anywhere half decent. Then you have $90K invested. Check out second listing below (asking $100K)

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/project-1981-litton-trawler-41-a-10990.html

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/1989-45-golden-star-sundeck-chb-11136.html

The second vessel is on the west coast. Twice the price BUT appears to be 4X the value IMHO.
Run away from the "deal" fast!

 

[beachbum29]

I will say that we bought a boat that most on here told me that I was foolish. It took 8-10 weeks to repair and we are still working out some of the bugs.

Main thing is it's floating in it's slip, we stay on board 3-4 nights a week and it was bought at $40K below market.

Just finishing up the detailing, systems updates before taking the next trip.

 

[psneeld]

He said he owes $50k on it, and thats what he wants for it. I thought that was high for what the boat it, and its current state. From what I have been told Volvos are expensive to repair. I would ofcourse do it myself, but that doesn't make parts cheaper. Any ideas what a ball park would be for a boat like this? Another thing, the inserts around the small ports windows, and exhaust vents have little cracks around them in the gel coat. Is this something terribly bad say if moisture gets in the cracks, between the gellcoat and fiberglass?[/QUOTE

Really hard to say without really seeing it and the bottom..if it's full of blisters and never barrier coated....wow...

Just in salvage, one working motor, one core, and a few bits and pieces...minus the cost of getting rid of the rest would be down in the $10-$15,000 range I would GUESS. I would guess floating with a decent bottom...somewhere's around $20-$25000. If the interior is good except the front windows and the other systems are relatively new...maybe $30-$35,000.

Can't say for sure...but I think it would bring more if it was a single as long as the single engine was working well.

Realistically...to offer him what he needs out of it would be a real stretch in my mind....I doubt he thinks it's worth less than $50K but it sure doesn't sound it.

 

[Adelaide]

He said he owes $50k on it, and thats what he wants for it. I thought that was high for what the boat it, and its current state. From what I have been told Volvos are expensive to repair. I would ofcourse do it myself, but that doesn't make parts cheaper. Any ideas what a ball park would be for a boat like this? Another thing, the inserts around the small ports windows, and exhaust vents have little cracks around them in the gel coat. Is this something terribly bad say if moisture gets in the cracks, between the gellcoat and fiberglass?

Ok, now go find every like boat around and view, view, view. Only then will you be able to gauge the deal. With that said, engine problems are a bear and the Volvo engines are not going to be off the shelf parts. In fact, call around to some diesel mechanics and talk with them about the Volvo engines. Good luck!

 

[cseitz91]

Yeah, I can move with all the ammunition you guys have provided me with. This is the first I have looked at only because it was at a familiar Marina, and I had met the guy before. I want a boat that is useable in every manner. From a liveaboard to something that is more capable of a long cruise is what I am ultimately seeking. I will get in contact with the owner and see what his thoughts are, I highly doubt he will want to sell it for less than what he owes. A payment on nothing would certainly suck.

 

[CPseudonym]

I highly doubt he will want to sell it for less than what he owes.

The difference between what he owes and what it's worth is a problem shared by he and his lender. It's not your problem whatsoever.

Go look at $50,000 boats on Yachtworld and see how many are advertised with blown engines. Not many is my guess. What's so great about boating is we all get to decide how to spend our money.

 

[cseitz91]

The difference between what he owes and what it's worth is a problem shared by he and his lender. It's not your problem whatsoever.

Go look at $50,000 boats on Yachtworld and see how many are advertised with blown engines. Not many is my guess. What's so great about boating is we all get to decide how to spend our money.

This Is true and the value of this boat is only dropping. Its unfortunate that the shape of it is moving in the same direction as the value.

 

[BruceK]

Having seen a usable but imperfect one asking 64K online, add up the deck, rot, paint,timber,engine repair, etc etc cost, deduct that, you might get a figure. That`s a valid way to get a price, as opposed to what it owes the Bank.
RTF`s 10K has a ring to it.
Depends what you want to pay to get that slip (and how secure that is), and how you value dealing with someone you think is a nice guy, who is really just a boat seller who did not think the boat was worth maintaining.

 

[Art]

Can of lighter fluid needed! Zippo's are still good for something...

Fire - Fire - FIRE!!! Run away from that boat.

Let it get burned - NOT YOU!

 

[Andy G]

Cseitz91, Well Gilligan, which post answers your question best, to recap lets see what they thought:


psneeld;The Old Testament warning , a real time horror storey, from the 'we need a bigger boat' school of antidotes

Barco Sin Vela The I'm with him approach, coupled with AND what else! approach

CPseudonym;The Spencer Tracey 'Old Man of the Sea truism',ignore at your peril son

Adelaide; the Clint Eastwood cut to the chase, 'screw the owner, how much?'


RT Firefly;The immortal Groucho take on things, (these are always highly anticipated, and this doesn't disappoint),'He wants YOU to pay for the boat?'

beachbum29; the glimmer of hope message, 'despite the odds I survived'

SeaHorse II;The John Wayne, 'listen to me pilgrim, and listen carefully'approach updated to the 21@ with smilies

BruceK; The Atticus Finch take, 'lets way up the options and not be hasty approach favoured by University& legal types the world over

Art; the 'Lot's Wife' approach, 'walk away and DON'T look back.'(remember what happened to her)FWIW I think Art invented Smilies

AND me? As the old movie line goes,"I'm with him"

PS I hope I didn't leave anyone out.

 

[Tony B]

The problems that you have listed with this boat are only the obvious ones. This is not a 'needs TLC' boat. This is a major, major project boat.

I say go ahead and buy the boat. You will have gotten into the great hobby of boat repair with many years of experience to be gained by it all. The forum members here will be busy and happy to help you along the way. You never know what the future brings and so maybe you can get into the hobby of boating some day.
Best of luck in whatever you decide.

 

[cseitz91]

The problems that you have listed with this boat are only the obvious ones. This is not a 'needs TLC' boat. This is a major, major project boat.

I say go ahead and buy the boat. You will have gotten into the great hobby of boat repair with many years of experience to be gained by it all. The forum members here will be busy and happy to help you along the way. You never know what the future brings and so maybe you can get into the hobby of boating some day.
Best of luck in whatever you decide.

I agree with you all on this one. The boat layout was great no doubt, but everything else was less than par. I was a little blown away when he told me what he wanted/owed on the boat, it was one of those " sucks for you" moments. I am going to keep on looking, and I don't thing that the boat is going anywhere soon, so if I decide to make him a realistic offer on his floating headache then I just might, but until then I'm keeping my options open

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. 91. Wise choice...enjoy.

 

[Art]

WHEW! Another boat buyer saved from da fire of worthless used boats!! TF Rocks!!!

Keep looken!! You'll find a goody. Winter is usually best time to cut a deal and in winter many boat owners become "really-ready" to sell...