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Old 09-09-2013, 12:17 AM   #61
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Make sure you get your own pre purchase survey as you will pay for one anyway to obtain insurance. Owner supplied surveys, regardless of how recent, do not count. Caveat emptor.
I agree in every way, adding that surveys obtained and supplied by a PO can still be useful. You can see what was needed, and check if it was done. My(deceased) PO`s own purchase survey was quite recent and in some ways more useful than my own.
Underwater "seals" likely refers to skin fittings. If they were replaced it should be evident inside.
A recent antifoul job is good, but have your surveyor check if it is hiding anything, like poor osmosis repairs etc.
Taiwanese boats vary a lot, there were multiple builders of the same boat, so it is hard to generalize. Lehmans are good. You did not mention decks, tired teak is common, not good, can affects more than just decks, and a money pit, maybe someone redid them by now in non slip paint.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:23 AM   #62
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I agree in every way, adding that surveys obtained and supplied by a PO can still be useful. You can see what was needed, and check if it was done. My(deceased) PO`s own purchase survey was quite recent and in some ways more useful than my own.
Underwater "seals" likely refers to skin fittings. If they were replaced it should be evident inside.
A recent antifoul job is good, but have your surveyor check if it is hiding anything, like poor osmosis repairs etc.
Taiwanese boats vary a lot, there were multiple builders of the same boat, so it is hard to generalize. Lehmans are good. You did not mention decks, tired teak is common, not good, can affects more than just decks, and a money pit, maybe someone redid them by now in non slip paint.

Bruce, I agree about the survey, and it was done at a well known spot out here on the delta so that has to say something in itself. As far as the teak; the handrails are all in good shape and taken care of, as well as the inside.The windows haven't leaked, like the other creature I looked at. The decks have all been painted with the non-skip paint. Essentially the only work the boat needs on the exterior is some caulking around there the flybridge comes down on the boat its self, is this normal? And the colored stripe above the water line is very faded.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:16 AM   #63
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Bruce, I agree about the survey, and it was done at a well known spot out here on the delta so that has to say something in itself. As far as the teak; the handrails are all in good shape and taken care of, as well as the inside.The windows haven't leaked, like the other creature I looked at. The decks have all been painted with the non-skip paint. Essentially the only work the boat needs on the exterior is some caulking around there the flybridge comes down on the boat its self, is this normal? And the colored stripe above the water line is very faded.
Depending on orig construction methods... be careful that the fastening system of FB to cabin top is still OK. Some crafts have wooden spacers with through bolts for building application and the wood can rot. It may mean that you will have to lift the bridge at least a couple inches off the cabin top and redo the fastening system. Not necessarily a deal breaker... but can be sizable project for yourself and/or costly to hire out. Price should be reduced appropriately if that is the case. If rot is located get a bid for repair from one or two reputable marine repair shops.

Of course - if you're lucky - it may also be that the caulk simply has seen better days and just needs to be replaced!

I recommend a careful check-up in that area.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:00 PM   #64
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Bruce, I agree about the survey, and it was done at a well known spot out here on the delta so that has to say something in itself. As far as the teak; the handrails are all in good shape and taken care of, as well as the inside.The windows haven't leaked, like the other creature I looked at. The decks have all been painted with the non-skip paint. Essentially the only work the boat needs on the exterior is some caulking around there the flybridge comes down on the boat its self, is this normal? And the colored stripe above the water line is very faded.
Odd no one redid the boot-stripe during a/f, no worry, except shows the owner not all that generous doing the work. Art has the caulking covered, all else sounds ok. Ready for your own survey? Good luck.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:53 PM   #65
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Odd no one redid the boot-stripe during a/f, no worry, except shows the owner not all that generous doing the work. Art has the caulking covered, all else sounds ok. Ready for your own survey? Good luck.
The owner has had a rough year, and his wife is going through cancer treatment and he just doesn't have the time for the little things. About this survey now, does the boat need to be out of the water to have it done? What would be the things they dig for in an accurate survey?
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:59 PM   #66
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Contact your insurance company and they will tell you exactly what is required by them to give you coverage. 2 companies wanted my boat hauled for survey, BoatUS did not require that.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:19 PM   #67
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The owner has had a rough year, and his wife is going through cancer treatment and he just doesn't have the time for the little things. About this survey now, does the boat need to be out of the water to have it done? What would be the things they dig for in an accurate survey?
cs91 - OMG... The questions you ask (in bold and ul above) have a century of journals written on them!

I'm not trying to scare you, but: You can think of every boat in context as a HUGE engine that has thousands of moving parts attached to many solid base parts. Some parts can be a bit off key... but the engine still MUST run correctly... therefore the important parts need to be fully operational... or else the engine (boat) will fail - maybe flounder and sink, or blow up... or... ???

For a "new" mariner such as yourself... My answer is twofold.

1. Find the best marine surveyor you can... ask for references and perform due diligence. The time and money you spend to have a good surveyor is well worth it!

2. In addition to the following link... scour the net and read all you can on boat survey. Your learning curve is currently steep on this subject.

MARINE SURVEY 101How to do your own marine survey: http://www.pcmarinesurveys.com/Marine%20Survey%20101.htm

Good Luck!
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:51 PM   #68
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Added to other advice on survey, get a mechanical survey as well as a general survey. You have a pair of Lehmans, maybe a genset too, so it`s worth doing. A good mechanical surveyor may observe other things as well, find your own or ask the general surveyor for a recommendation.
I have seen people start a thread to ask for surveyor suggestions in their area, do that if you get stuck.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:57 PM   #69
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Added to other advice on survey, get a mechanical survey as well as a general survey. You have a pair of Lehmans, maybe a genset too, so it`s worth doing. A good mechanical surveyor may observe other things as well, find your own or ask the general surveyor for a recommendation.
I have seen people start a thread to ask for surveyor suggestions in their area, do that if you get stuck.
Sooo correct Bruce!
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:01 AM   #70
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cs91 - OMG... The questions you ask (in bold and ul above) have a century of journals written on them!

I'm not trying to scare you, but: You can think of every boat in context as a HUGE engine that has thousands of moving parts attached to many solid base parts. Some parts can be a bit off key... but the engine still MUST run correctly... therefore the important parts need to be fully operational... or else the engine (boat) will fail - maybe flounder and sink, or blow up... or... ???

For a "new" mariner such as yourself... My answer is twofold.

1. Find the best marine surveyor you can... ask for references and perform due diligence. The time and money you spend to have a good surveyor is well worth it!

2. In addition to the following link... scour the net and read all you can on boat survey. Your learning curve is currently steep on this subject.

MARINE SURVEY 101How to do your own marine survey: http://www.pcmarinesurveys.com/Marine%20Survey%20101.htm

Good Luck!

Well after getting half way through the the 101, I realized I need to get some serious reading done. The issue with the boat is, I will go up for sale Wednesday, so I need to have a good chat with the owner tomorrow and talk about his plans, and urgency in selling the boat.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:19 AM   #71
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The price of this boat explains his urgency. Either you've tripped and fell into a cream puff with a motivated seller(it happened to me) or the boat has issues you have not found. Either way a survey will help you sort it out in short order. 40' boats in that price range will likely have issues of some sort the job is to find out if they still equate to a good deal.

By put it up for sale Wednesday does that mean list it with a broker or run an ad on Craigslist?
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:26 AM   #72
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The price of this boat explains his urgency. Either you've tripped and fell into a cream puff with a motivated seller(it happened to me) or the boat has issues you have not found. Either way a survey will help you sort it out in short order. 40' boats in that price range will likely have issues of some sort the job is to find out if they still equate to a good deal.

By put it up for sale Wednesday does that mean list it with a broker or run an ad on Craigslist?
If it is a cream puff – an experienced surveyor should be able to tell in short order... by checking the boat's basics first, i.e. its foundations... so to say. Then the surveyor's nitty gritty individual item checks can ensue... that is, if you want to complete the survey after his/her report on the basics.

I recommend that you are on board taking-notes/asking-questions during all survey portions; and, that beforehand you let the surveyor know you want to speak privately (away from PO’s ears) after about an hour or so of checking the boat’s basics. Also, discuss with the surveyor that you may not complete the survey if the basics turn out not good and ask what the cost discount would be if you cancelled the rest of survey.

Even cream puffs usually have some items needing “boat dollars” put in for improvement/replacement (a “boat dollar” = $1,000). Be ready to negotiate!

As Craig – I too found a cream puff, at a great price. I recognized items needing attention and the cost it would take to accomplish improvements. I then played hardball with PO at closing and received my required price reduction... I was lucky, due to circumstances he really wanted/needed to sell!

That said... it took me many visits to boats and close scrutiny as to what was on the market before I found my cream puff. I wish you best and hope this boat is your cream puff. If not then there is a cream puff boat somewhere in your future.

Happy Boating Daze! - Art
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