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Old 08-09-2013, 08:59 PM   #41
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I don't recall where I heard this before but it stuck with me - "Don't let someone else's broken dream become your nightmare".

I'll bet if someone here started a thread "loser boats I have bought", there would be lots of replies. I am too embarrassed to start it myself.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:48 PM   #42
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of course there is the old expression..."one man's trash is another man's treasure"...
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:51 PM   #43
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of course there is the old expression..."one man's trash is another man's treasure"...
Quite correct ps!


Another old one:

1. “First Time” shame on you (in this case the seller)!

2. “Second Time” shame on me (in this case the buyer)!

With that said - It clearly appears we somewhat boat savvy TF contributors (collectively comprising many, many decades of various experiences) are trying our best to help 91 not have the “First Time”, i.e. # 1 occur. Therefore, if our clearly correct cautions are not well enough understood... it seems “Second Time”, i.e. #2 may become the dominant factor that 91 actually experiences!

I recommend for 91 to be careful and not run into #1 or #2 regarding this boat he is reviewing and that is being quite fully discussed on TF.

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Old 08-09-2013, 11:04 PM   #44
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:15 PM   #45
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I know I will never be able to repay all of you for the knowledge and insight/experiences you have shared. I appreciate it to the fullest!
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:59 AM   #46
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Marin, this is BS. We all know you're here, you know you're here, just post it and get over it. We will still love and respect you in the morning.

This PM cr@p is depriving everyone of your knowledge and experience!

The forum is a better place with you as a real member.

Don't let that knowledge and experience thing go to your head.

Respectfully submitted, this 9 day of August,

Douglas C Neidermeyer, Seargent at Arms
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:26 AM   #47
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What does the 'C' stand for sarge?

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Old 08-10-2013, 10:20 AM   #48
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What does the 'C' stand for sarge?

faithfully,

Corporal Andy E G, catering company.
Stands for Cole. First name, very clever huh? I have some many usernames and passwords to try to remember, so I have tried to keep it the same and simple!
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Old 08-10-2013, 12:20 PM   #49
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Cseitz91, it's and old Animal House quote
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:31 PM   #50
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Marin, this is BS. We all know you're here, you know you're here, just post it and get over it. We will still love and respect you in the morning.
Aholics sometimes hide in closets... others stay in the limelight. Along with many other contributers, I'm in the limelight here some times, other times I simply lurk through posts, but not in the closet do I post, on a regular basis anyway! LOL

Never did feel need to be closeted - on any of my Aholic tendencies. That said; over the decades I successfully quit cold turkey on more than one item that needed quitting. TF is not one of those items... IMHO!

Come on back in Marin... TF water is fine! You know that!!!
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:11 PM   #51
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Many Kha Shing`s will be great boats, but isn`t "Kha-Ching" the sound of a cash register receiving money? That might define this particular one.
Apologies for reverting to topic.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:42 AM   #52
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Apologies for reverting to topic.
Bruce, that made me laugh out loud!
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Old 08-11-2013, 02:09 AM   #53
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Bruce, that made me laugh out loud!
Ha ha that was great!
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Old 08-11-2013, 03:33 AM   #54
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Actually, this has been an interesting thread, because it probably echos the process many, if not most of us, (for whom money is an object), when we set out on this particular exercise...ie, finding the best boat we can afford, and which will do what we want to do.
I had a particular style in mind - trawler (Clipper) style coastal cruiser, 34-36' with aft cabin, and I did not want to borrow to finance it, so I had a price ceiling as well. The wife said no, she wanted sedan style with aft cockpit, rather than aft cabin, and you know - she was right. As it turns out the number of times we take friends away over-nighting is way less than I thought (hoped..?), and the fact that virtually all new boats of this design now, (yes - still being produced new - Clipper 34 now renamed 36, but essentially the same), are all Europa style, as these are now called, suggests the 2iC knew something...
Anyway, it caused a longer search, because the sedan/Europa style was much less commonly made in the era I could afford, (ie NOT NEW), but eventually one popped up. But of course, being 1975 vintage, there were issues. It was a bit tired, needed quite a bit of cosmetic stuff doing, but I could see that was well withing my capability, and the chief thing was a survey confirmed my impression that nothing really expensive, or needing expert manpower (read expensive) would be needed to get her 'good to go' as it were. The motor was sound. Huge point..!
The mild steel tanks had rusted on the tops by the usual leaking old teak decks, which the PO had also had stripped and replaced with reinforced non-skid fibreglass decks, and he had also had the stainless steel water tanks converted for fuel. 800 litres has proven more capacity than we ever need, and as I said, the engine was sound - all points proven by still all working fine, ie decks, tanks and engine, now 12 yrs later. I had new food grade plastic tanks for house water made, (they were making do with a bladder type water tank in the lazaret), which I installed myself, and 600 litres water has again proven to be all we ever need.
I have since replaced the hot water tank, engine room floors, totally relined the forward cabin with new teak and much of the water-stained teak under the saloon windows, having sealed relevant leaks, painted the entire topsides with Toplac, and had the hull professionally resprayed. I also installed GPS, new sonars up and down, VHF and CD/radio, myself.
We replaced a rag of canvas over part of the cockpit, with full-framed length/width canvas, extended along the side decks as well, rather like the new models have in hard top.

According to a couple of brokers, I have effectively doubled her value, because she does everything a new boat would do, yet I got her cheap, simply because she was tired and showed it.
So, to the original poster, cseitz91, I say by all means beware, and look at as many similar vessels as you can. But a lot of what you described is cosmetic, do-able by yourself, and the engines effectively needing replacement (possibly the fuel tanks also), gives you a huge bargaining chip. Forget what he says he wants, you work out what new American Diesel (Ford Lehman) replacement engines would cost, plus anything else of significance, and make an offer if the hull and other stuff is as cosmetic as it sounds.
In the end, running might still be the best option, but as psneeld and some others beside myself have pointed out, it ain't necessarily so...but only if the owner is prepared to be really realistic in terms of price.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:06 AM   #55
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The wife said no, she wanted sedan style with aft cockpit, rather than aft cabin, and you know - she was right. As it turns out the number of times we take friends away over-nighting is way less than I thought.......
Very smart woman! We've had exactly similar thoughts and results. (I know some of you would have used the word "same" instead of "similar' but think about it. How can two people have the "same" thought? )
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Old 08-11-2013, 11:18 AM   #56
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Actually, this has been an interesting thread, because it probably echos the process many, if not most of us, (for whom money is an object), when we set out on this particular exercise...ie, finding the best boat we can afford, and which will do what we want to do.
I had a particular style in mind - trawler (Clipper) style coastal cruiser, 34-36' with aft cabin, and I did not want to borrow to finance it, so I had a price ceiling as well. The wife said no, she wanted sedan style with aft cockpit, rather than aft cabin, and you know - she was right. As it turns out the number of times we take friends away over-nighting is way less than I thought (hoped..?), and the fact that virtually all new boats of this design now, (yes - still being produced new - Clipper 34 now renamed 36, but essentially the same), are all Europa style, as these are now called, suggests the 2iC knew something...
Anyway, it caused a longer search, because the sedan/Europa style was much less commonly made in the era I could afford, (ie NOT NEW), but eventually one popped up. But of course, being 1975 vintage, there were issues. It was a bit tired, needed quite a bit of cosmetic stuff doing, but I could see that was well withing my capability, and the chief thing was a survey confirmed my impression that nothing really expensive, or needing expert manpower (read expensive) would be needed to get her 'good to go' as it were. The motor was sound. Huge point..!
The mild steel tanks had rusted on the tops by the usual leaking old teak decks, which the PO had also had stripped and replaced with reinforced non-skid fibreglass decks, and he had also had the stainless steel water tanks converted for fuel. 800 litres has proven more capacity than we ever need, and as I said, the engine was sound - all points proven by still all working fine, ie decks, tanks and engine, now 12 yrs later. I had new food grade plastic tanks for house water made, (they were making do with a bladder type water tank in the lazaret), which I installed myself, and 600 litres water has again proven to be all we ever need.
I have since replaced the hot water tank, engine room floors, totally relined the forward cabin with new teak and much of the water-stained teak under the saloon windows, having sealed relevant leaks, painted the entire topsides with Toplac, and had the hull professionally resprayed. I also installed GPS, new sonars up and down, VHF and CD/radio, myself.
We replaced a rag of canvas over part of the cockpit, with full-framed length/width canvas, extended along the side decks as well, rather like the new models have in hard top.

According to a couple of brokers, I have effectively doubled her value, because she does everything a new boat would do, yet I got her cheap, simply because she was tired and showed it.
So, to the original poster, cseitz91, I say by all means beware, and look at as many similar vessels as you can. But a lot of what you described is cosmetic, do-able by yourself, and the engines effectively needing replacement (possibly the fuel tanks also), gives you a huge bargaining chip. Forget what he says he wants, you work out what new American Diesel (Ford Lehman) replacement engines would cost, plus anything else of significance, and make an offer if the hull and other stuff is as cosmetic as it sounds.
In the end, running might still be the best option, but as psneeld and some others beside myself have pointed out, it ain't necessarily so...but only if the owner is prepared to be really realistic in terms of price.

Well I wish my lady was excited about buying a boat as I am. It willgrow on her I know it. I do like the layout of the sedan's open-ness. I still have more boats to look at, but it seems that with everything I look at, wether its boats or motorcycles or anything "the first is the best", and that mentality can bite you in the ass really quick.
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Old 09-08-2013, 03:36 PM   #57
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Back to it ladies and gents! I looked at another trawler today, this time closer to my price range. A 1976 Marine Trader 40'. Just had survey, and in the past couple weeks has been pulled out of the water. While it was out the bottom paint was done as well as all seals. Everything under the water line was replaced, whether it needed it or not. The boat was given to a father his son passed away last year, and he simply doesn't have the time for it. Its in pretty decent shape, twin lehmans run excellent, needs some paint work on the top half. The only this I disliked was the aft cab layout. A double bed isn't going to cut it, but I am handy with wood so I figured I could change the layout if need be. So my question to you guys... How are these boats compared to others? Is there something to be leary about? The price would be under around 20k. Some more input would be great.
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:11 PM   #58
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If you like it, feel comfortable and it had a good survey go for it.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:30 PM   #59
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Make sure you get your own pre purchase survey as you will pay for one anyway to obtain insurance. Owner supplied surveys, regardless of how recent, do not count. Caveat emptor.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:50 PM   #60
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There are no "seals" below the water line to replace so I'm not sure what that involved. Also replacing "everything from the waterline down" covers a lot of ground. I would see if you could find a boatyard owner or someone that has been around boats for a while to look over the boat for you. Some of the beds are built over fuel tanks and over things that you need to get to so you need to take that into consideration. Some of the Pacific Rim boats of the 70's and 80's were not built that well. Grand Banks has always built a quality boat. There are 4-5 "systems" that need to be checked thoroughly before you decide to buy. If you break it down to propulsion-running gear, electrical, steering, pressurized water and air condition it becomes more manageable.
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