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Old 09-10-2015, 07:52 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Bay Pelican View Post
Wonderful area. Many places to anchor, marinas are less expensive than the Atlantic Coast Intercoastal. Many more barges. At the western end can circle north of New Orleans and visit the city. Mobile and Fairhope on Mobile Bay are great places to visit.



The west coast of Florida from Tampa to Naples is filled with Midwesterners. Fairly friendly.



One jump although not required is approximately 120nm to cut across the big bend on the Florida Panhandle. You can hop the coast but it does get shallow.

I was not very clear with my question. Sorry. I was talking about the actual coast of Mexico south of Brownsville TX.
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Old 09-10-2015, 11:49 PM   #62
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The two boats you pointed out are wonderful Coastal Cruisers.

If you want to cross oceans you need a boat with much more range and rough water capability.

There are only two real missions for a pleasure yacht. Coastal Cruising and ocean crossing or Passagemaking. From a practical standpoint there is not much need for anything in between. You either for example need the fuel endurance to cross oceans or you do not.

Much of what you mentioned in your post are important features of a boat that you intend to spend allot of time on.

Also keep in mind that many things are added by owners to make their boats more livable.

I will say this though. If you think you might want to cross oceans buy a passagemaker. You can cruise along a coast line in a boat capable of crossing oceans. You cannot cross oceans in a boat designed to cruise along a coast line.
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:02 AM   #63
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I REALLY appreciate the feedback on the McKinna. I have not considered things like the anchor weight.

- Watermaker
- Fuel polisher
- Stabilizers
- Trash compactor
- Washer/Dryer
- Dishwasher



- Redundancy if possible
- Nice saloon for indoor living
- 2 large staterooms
- Large cockpit if possible
- Outdoor living space


I think good to list specific features you might like to have. Remember some of those are specific to a given boat, built into the design (note I've re-organized your list), but many of those can be retro-fitted as an aftermarket installation... so while you're shopping, if boats with good bones but without a trash compactor (for example) surface (so to speak)... that might not be a real impediment.

FWIW, I understand folks often don't use watermakers while in port where sea water quality isn't great. Maybe others will comment... If true, you'll appreciate larger water tankage.

And then when it comes to anchor weight... well there are about a gazillion threads on anchors, not just weights but also styles, so just assume that no boat you consider will have the right anchor, the right rode, the right anything to do with anchoring. So you'll have to pick all new, anyway.



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Old 09-11-2015, 09:07 AM   #64
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Bay Pelican: I believe he was asking about the coast of Mexico and not the U.S. Gulf Coast. He just did the trip all along the U.S. Gulf Coast ICW. Mexican coast (East) is mostly long barrier Islands with few cuts into shallow inner bays similar to Laguna Madras. The further south you go the ports get bigger and seem to service the Bay of Campeche oil industry. Few anchorages unless you have local knowledge of inner bays.
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:15 AM   #65
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Bay Pelican: I believe he was asking about the coast of Mexico and not the U.S. Gulf Coast. He just did the trip all along the U.S. Gulf Coast ICW. Mexican coast (East) is mostly long barrier Islands with few cuts into shallow inner bays similar to Laguna Madras. The further south you go the ports get bigger and seem to service the Bay of Campeche oil industry. Few anchorages unless you have local knowledge of inner bays.

Reason I ask about Mexico is because we are so brainwashed here in south Tx about the Mexican border towns being so violent. Didn't know if that held true about the coast as well.
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:26 AM   #66
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Here are some things that seem to be important (please fill in the gaps as I KNOW I will miss things). As you can see there are a mixture of things that many of you will not find important as it caters to living amenities vs cruising.

- Watermaker
- Fuel polisher
- Stabilizers
- Redundancy if possible
- Trash compactor
- Washer/Dryer
- Dishwasher
- Nice saloon for indoor living
- 2 large staterooms
- Large cockpit if possible
- Outdoor living space
That describes a Defever 44 or 49CPMY perfectly, with possible exception of trash compactor and dishwasher. They have more than enough fuel for the range you want and are very comfortable live aboard boats.
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Old 09-11-2015, 10:34 AM   #67
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Reason I ask about Mexico is because we are so brainwashed here in south Tx about the Mexican border towns being so violent. Didn't know if that held true about the coast as well.
Two comments on safety in Mexico and other countries you'd pass by and through. First, the violence is not currently in the coastal areas you'd be visiting. It's always good to get updates from the US Department of State and sites like Noonsite. Border cities, major cities, etc. are the places of unrest. The places you'll be visiting are very conscious of protecting tourists and of safety. Second, it's a matter of your conduct and actions as well. Don't go deep inside the country alone, don't frequent inner city bars and get drunk, but explore safe areas during the day and with groups. We often used agents for customs and other matters and they were excellent in advising us. However, those at the marinas are also aware.

Border towns with Texas are a matter all their own. I'll take one example. Juarez, on the border with El Paso. Go during the day to shop, it's ok. Go early evening with a group, by taxi, to a restaurant, ok. But many cross into Juarez in search of bars, sex, and drugs. They go looking for trouble and find it. They would find it doing the same in any major city in the US.

The others you hear about in Texas are businessmen and kidnapping. It's more often major cities, it's who they are, and it's the wealthy they publicly display.

Use appropriate care in Mexico and most other countries and you'll likely be ok. However, be smart. Be cautious.

We never felt unsafe in our travels through but we also exercised good judgment.
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Old 09-11-2015, 10:59 AM   #68
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Of course he would need to replace his anchor, and ffit the boat out as he sees fit for his intended cruising range. Thats a given.
So Kevin, how much was your refit? I seem to recall something in the $150K range (and you don't have stabilization). Am I in the ballpark? And your boat is 5 to 10 feet shorter, 5 to 10 years newer, and roughly half the displacement of the boats the OP has posted as considering.

The OP has a budget of $300K and has been posting links to boats with (asking) prices of $325K to $375K (that one located on the other coast).

So...sure, a motoryacht style boat with a $100K refit says he should be looking at boats under $200K.
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:15 AM   #69
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Refugio

It is not uncommon that we suggest someone buy a vessel just like ours. Many reasons for that but we tend to stick with and recommend our own cruising style and what we know, laboriously at times. The OP has a very long wish list that as he looks at numerous vessels will get pared down.

The biggie though is whether the OP truly wants to go offshore for days on end or just harbor hop. That is THE decision IMHO. Until that decision is made debating drapes, dishwashers and compactors is where he is.
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:21 AM   #70
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So Kevin, how much was your refit? I seem to recall something in the $150K range (and you don't have stabilization). Am I in the ballpark? And your boat is 5 to 10 feet shorter, 5 to 10 years newer, and roughly half the displacement of the boats the OP has posted as considering.

The OP has a budget of $300K and has been posting links to boats with (asking) prices of $325K to $375K (that one located on the other coast).

So...sure, a motoryacht style boat with a $100K refit says he should be looking at boats under $200K.
Ok come on...

There is a huge difference between doing a total repower and refit of a boat and just fitting a boat out for a new owner.

Almost everybody that buys a boat of any size dumps some money into it just after purchase. Thats because the perfect boat does not exist.

Yes, money can add up quickly, thats why you buy a boat that has most of what you want, and you just add the rest.

Someone on this thread knocked a boat he had chosen because of the anchor. I cannot imagine that someone would even take into account on a $300,000 purchase the anchor a boat has when he buys it. I can go to West Marine and 15 minutes and a thousand dollars or less later have a pretty nice anchor of any size sitting in the back of my trunk. An hour later it can be on my bow.

Someone else knocked his boat choice over the 275 gallons of fresh water it carried. Really??? 275 gallons of water is way more than enough for Coastal Cruising, but it is not relevant in my book anyway. There is no way I'd ever trust the water supply in a foreign country, so a watermaker is a must. I just added one, 40 gallons per hour, $5600 and two days labor. Could have gotten one for a little over $4K that did 20 GPH.

So, yes boat fitting out is a standard practice for a new owner.
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:32 AM   #71
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Refugio


The biggie though is whether the OP truly wants to go offshore for days on end or just harbor hop. That is THE decision IMHO. Until that decision is made debating drapes, dishwashers and compactors is where he is.
You are exactly right. The OP needs to decide if he wants the capability to cross oceans or not. That single decision will drive his boat choice more than anything else.

And...

I never recommended he buy my style boat, see my first post in this thread. What I did was look at boats he, the OP seemed to like and make a recommendation as to whether they would fulfill his stated mission objective.

Where I get up on step is when someone comes out and says "you need this" when that is just not true. Unless you are going to cross oceans you do not "need" much. Then when the inferred safety card gets thrown out in an attempt to support the "need" I call BS, and will every time.
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:33 AM   #72
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Maybe we should rename this thread "Looking for a Coastal Cruiser"?
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:41 AM   #73
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While I fully agree with the issue that the OP must decide how he wants to use the boat, it not just a question of whether he wants to cross oceans or do coastal cruising. In some situations boats which can cross oceans have are beneficial even if you are not crossing oceans.

Trawlers in the Eastern and Southern Caribbean are mostly full displacement long range craft with stabilization because they are more comfortable and provide more options given the normal conditions.
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Old 09-11-2015, 12:01 PM   #74
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...Trawlers in the Eastern and Southern Caribbean are mostly full displacement long range craft with stabilization because they are more comfortable and provide more options given the normal conditions.
Pretty much the same on the Pacific side of central America. And yes, you can fuel and water but not always at modern fuel docks or potable water.
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Old 09-11-2015, 03:17 PM   #75
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Ok come on... I can go to West Marine and 15 minutes and a thousand dollars or less later have a pretty nice anchor of any size sitting in the back of my trunk. An hour later it can be on my bow.
I didn't read this as a humorous statement, so if it was intended as a joke then you got me. If you meant this seriously, I think this is one of the most dangerous scenarios I've seen on this forum.

First of all, the suggested size Rocna for that Mckinna is 55, which is $1,660 at West Marine. But even if it were possible to simply swap out the SS plow on the McKinna and insert the Rocna, that would be hugely misguided.

Everything on that production boat was sized by the builder as a package. From the pulpit, roller, chain stopper, windlass, windlass wiring, chain, chain storage, better end fastening - everything was designed and sized to work together. I'm going to take a stab here and say it was designed with about 5,000 lbs holding power in ideal conditions. And if you fastened an anchor with 10K lbs holding power (again, ideal conditions) on the end, you still have an anchoring system with 5K holding power - but one that will put a larger load on every part of the system when retrieved and stowed than was originally designed.

So...let's add 3 shots of 1/2" G4 chain (WL 9,200 lbs) at a cost (from West Marine) of another $2,943. Now just that chain and anchor weigh approximately 450 lbs more than the existing setup - is that going to change the trim? Naw, it's all good.

Oh crap. The maximum chain size of the Maxwell VWC 2200 is 7/16". So let's bump that up to a new Maxwell VWC 3500 at $4,823 from WM. Will that work with the existing controls? Mounting holes? Let's assume yes. Will the deck withstand a 3500 lb pull up from 2500? Let's just wing it and say sure - I mean, what's the worst that can happen? I mean it's not like your life depends on this, right? Oh wait...

Well, we're all good now, right? New chain, anchor, windlass - I'll even throw in the windlass mounting. But we know there's no way in hell the Rocna is going to fit on that pulpit. Want to ballpark a revised pulpit roller? $2K? Everyone good with that? OK, we're now up to $11,426. Plus tax. Plus you have a (literal) ton of metal in your trunk. Are we done?

Um, no. The old windlass drew 71 amps, the new one draws 100 (assuming 12V - there's no mention of 24V anything in the McKinna listing). I'm too lazy to work out the voltage drop but I'm pretty sure the wiring is going to have to be upgraded. And the breaker.

Am I overthinking this? Maybe. But what's the real-life cost of UNDER-thinking this?

And this is just one anchor, no backup. Let's start talking about having anchors for two different bottom conditions. Or a spare rode. Or...
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Old 09-11-2015, 03:26 PM   #76
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I didn't read this as a humorous statement, so if it was intended as a joke then you got me. If you meant this seriously, I think this is one of the most dangerous scenarios I've seen on this forum.

First of all, the suggested size Rocna for that Mckinna is 55, which is $1,660 at West Marine. But even if it were possible to simply swap out the SS plow on the McKinna and insert the Rocna, that would be hugely misguided.

Everything on that production boat was sized by the builder as a package. From the pulpit, roller, chain stopper, windlass, windlass wiring, chain, chain storage, better end fastening - everything was designed and sized to work together. I'm going to take a stab here and say it was designed with about 5,000 lbs holding power in ideal conditions. And if you fastened an anchor with 10K lbs holding power (again, ideal conditions) on the end, you still have an anchoring system with 5K holding power - but one that will put a larger load on every part of the system when retrieved and stowed than was originally designed.

So...let's add 3 shots of 1/2" G4 chain (WL 9,200 lbs) at a cost (from West Marine) of another $2,943. Now just that chain and anchor weigh approximately 450 lbs more than the existing setup - is that going to change the trim? Naw, it's all good.

Oh crap. The maximum chain size of the Maxwell VWC 2200 is 7/16". So let's bump that up to a new Maxwell VWC 3500 at $4,823 from WM. Will that work with the existing controls? Mounting holes? Let's assume yes. Will the deck withstand a 3500 lb pull up from 2500? Let's just wing it and say sure - I mean, what's the worst that can happen? I mean it's not like your life depends on this, right? Oh wait...

Well, we're all good now, right? New chain, anchor, windlass - I'll even throw in the windlass mounting. But we know there's no way in hell the Rocna is going to fit on that pulpit. Want to ballpark a revised pulpit roller? $2K? Everyone good with that? OK, we're now up to $11,426. Plus tax. Plus you have a (literal) ton of metal in your trunk. Are we done?

Um, no. The old windlass drew 71 amps, the new one draws 100 (assuming 12V - there's no mention of 24V anything in the McKinna listing). I'm too lazy to work out the voltage drop but I'm pretty sure the wiring is going to have to be upgraded. And the breaker.

Am I overthinking this? Maybe. But what's the real-life cost of UNDER-thinking this?

And this is just one anchor, no backup. Let's start talking about having anchors for two different bottom conditions. Or a spare rode. Or...
It was no joke.

Are you now indicating tht thre manufacturer of that yacht undersized their complete ground tackle system?

Oh, and you do not need a Rocna anchor to be safe. A bruce will work just fine.

Yes, you are over thinking and over complicating this.
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Old 09-12-2015, 03:54 AM   #77
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The two boats you pointed out are wonderful Coastal Cruisers.

If you want to cross oceans you need a boat with much more range and rough water capability.

There are only two real missions for a pleasure yacht. Coastal Cruising and ocean crossing or Passagemaking. From a practical standpoint there is not much need for anything in between. You either for example need the fuel endurance to cross oceans or you do not.

Much of what you mentioned in your post are important features of a boat that you intend to spend allot of time on.

Also keep in mind that many things are added by owners to make their boats more livable.

I will say this though. If you think you might want to cross oceans buy a passagemaker. You can cruise along a coast line in a boat capable of crossing oceans. You cannot cross oceans in a boat designed to cruise along a coast line.
I still think Kevin hit the nail on the head here.

Also, I have NOT used the watchmaker since crossing the English Channel. Too much bio stuff in water close to shore.

And heaven only knows how I've managed so long without a trash compactor
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Old 09-12-2015, 05:25 AM   #78
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Larry M: Good comment on the fuel docks and water. Most cruiser guides will say the Luperon, DR has "fuel available" and to "Contact Pablo on 16/68". It is true fuel is available. Pablo will fill 5 gallon cans and shuttle them from the Gas station via his motor cycle (4 or 5 cans at a time) to his boat and then to yours. Same with water although they usually use different containers.

safe travels
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Old 09-12-2015, 09:17 AM   #79
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I can understand adapting a boat that I already own to fit a purpose, but if I we're buying one, why shouldn't I buy a more seaworthy, longer range vessel than my intended purpose? Can one have a too seaworthy of a vessel?

For the OP's budget, I second the N46 recommendation above.
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Old 09-12-2015, 11:16 AM   #80
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I can understand adapting a boat that I already own to fit a purpose, but if I we're buying one, why shouldn't I buy a more seaworthy, longer range vessel than my intended purpose?
+1, with the additional complications of "unintended consequences" and effect of adaptations on eventual resale value.
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