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07-27-2017, 01:13 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
City: Palo Alto
Vessel Name: Ann-Elyse II
Vessel Model: North Pacific 45
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 472
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What size water tank with water maker?
Hi Folks,
On my trawler they put a 200 gal gas tank next to a 175 gal water tank on each side of the boat. The total gas is 400 gal. with about a 600 mile range at 8 knots. I would like to get over 1000 mile range. I can use the water tanks for additional gas, which should give me well over 1000 miles at 8 kts. That leaves me with no water. After confirming with the owner of the company that I can do this he suggested using a 40 gal blatter in the lazaret for water. I was thinking about getting a water maker to supplement the 40 gal water blatter but I hate to fill up the lazaret with a 40 gal blatter. If I used a 20 gal blatter with a water maker will that work for showers? Am I wasting my time with all of the above? Has anyone done something similar? Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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Dirtdoc1
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07-27-2017, 01:25 AM
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#2
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Guru
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,610
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Will your normal cruising habits require more than 600 miles of range ? If not, perhaps on the occaisions that it does you could supplement your fuel supply with a temporary fuel bladder?
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07-27-2017, 01:32 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
City: Palo Alto
Vessel Name: Ann-Elyse II
Vessel Model: North Pacific 45
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2
Will your normal cruising habits require more than 600 miles of range ? If not, perhaps on the occaisions that it does you could supplement your fuel supply with a temporary fuel bladder?
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A simple but elegant solution.
Thanks Benthic2!
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Dirtdoc1
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07-27-2017, 03:16 AM
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#4
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Moderator Emeritus
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,266
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There is nowhere in North America where you need a 600 mile range.
Not even close.
I would keep your tanks as configured and go boating.
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07-27-2017, 04:50 AM
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#5
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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"The total gas is 400 gal. with about a 600 mile range at 8 knots. I would like to get over 1000 mile range."
Slow to 7K
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07-27-2017, 04:53 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: Biloxi, MS
Vessel Name: Cajun Rose
Vessel Model: Biloxi Lugger
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,384
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Its a one way trip, once the tank is used for gas it can never be used for water.
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07-27-2017, 06:37 AM
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#7
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,121
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Watermakers do not work well generally in coastal waters or the ICW, for example. They require relatively clean seawater. They work great in the Bahamas and offshore where the particulate load is much lower. We enjoyed ours in the Bahamas but shut it down as soon as we got back to the ICW because filters plugged so fast. Plus, any hiccup with power supply, RO membrane(s), or running out of prefilters, would mean running out of water. I would never rely on a WM as my only source of fresh water unless I only drank beer and did not shower!!
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07-27-2017, 08:37 AM
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#8
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Guru
City: LI or Fla
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,148
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Ding ding ding, we have a winner!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF
"The total gas is 400 gal. with about a 600 mile range at 8 knots. I would like to get over 1000 mile range."
Slow to 7K
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07-27-2017, 10:07 AM
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#9
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Guru
City: AR
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,515
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You haven't said whether your water tanks are metal or plastic, but if they're polyethylene don't even think of trying to convert one to fuel holding. PE water and waste tanks are linear low density PE...petroleum will dissolve it. PE fuel tanks must be high density cross-linked PE, which is a different material from linear...plus, plastic fuel tanks must be USCG certified that they meet strict safety standards-- all fittings on the top of the tank, constructed to prevent liquid from pooling on any surface and a couple of others I can't recall without looking 'em up.
Even if it is metal, it's a still a very bad idea 'cuz some of those requirements apply to all fuel tanks and as swampu said, once a tank has held fuel, it can't be used for anything else.
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07-27-2017, 10:24 AM
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#10
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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I agree with others above.
- Where do you need to go that is 1000nm between fuel stops?
- How often will you have this need?
If you slow down to 7 knots you may have a fuel burn of about 2 g/h. That is 200 hours of operation with 400 gallons. At 7 knots that is 1,400 nm. Even if my numbers are off by a bit, I would bet that you could find a cruising speed that would easily give you a 1,000nm range with a 20% reserve.
Even if that seems like too little fuel for you, then consider converting one of your water tanks to fuel to give you 575 gallons. This is way more than you would likely need but would still give you 175 gallon water capacity.
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07-27-2017, 05:13 PM
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#11
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Guru
City: Chicago/Montrose Harbor
Vessel Name: Sea Jay
Vessel Model: Non Trawler ;-) Ask me if it matters LOL
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 512
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My question would be gas or diesel and type of engines? You say "gas" above so curious...
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07-27-2017, 08:32 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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I am not sure how big a water tank you would need. I would figure out how much water you would use in two days. Consider cooking, washing, showers etc.... I would want to have a couple days supply so that if I was in a location where I didn't want to run the water maker I would still be OK.
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07-27-2017, 09:22 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
City: Palo Alto
Vessel Name: Ann-Elyse II
Vessel Model: North Pacific 45
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays
I am not sure how big a water tank you would need. I would figure out how much water you would use in two days. Consider cooking, washing, showers etc.... I would want to have a couple days supply so that if I was in a location where I didn't want to run the water maker I would still be OK.
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I agree. I think that's why 40 gal was recommended. I need to look at some water makers and figure out how long it takes to make 20 gal and how efficiently the water heater could keep it warm for a shower. I keep coming back to 40 as the answer but a 40 gal tank is big! That's what I have on my Carver and it's good for one for about 4-5 days. If the water maker could keep it full even during use I think a 20 gal tank might work. But if the water maker went down I would have to depend on bottled water until I pulled anchor and got into port.
I think 40 gallons is the answer. Unfortunately.
Do you have a water maker?
Thanks,
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Dirtdoc1
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07-27-2017, 09:49 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
City: Palo Alto
Vessel Name: Ann-Elyse II
Vessel Model: North Pacific 45
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF
"The total gas is 400 gal. with about a 600 mile range at 8 knots. I would like to get over 1000 mile range."
Slow to 7K
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One of the reasons that I want more diesel is so I can go faster and not worry about losing my range. I'm coming from a planing boat so I'm a bit worried that 8 knots will feel too slow. I've been driving my Carver at different speeds to see what it's going to feel like running at 8 knots. 10 knots is OK but 8 feels really slow to me. I've been told that it feels different in a trawler.
I guess I'll find out in September when I take possession of the boat.
Cheers.
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Dirtdoc1
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07-27-2017, 09:59 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
City: Palo Alto
Vessel Name: Ann-Elyse II
Vessel Model: North Pacific 45
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadMistress
You haven't said whether your water tanks are metal or plastic, but if they're polyethylene don't even think of trying to convert one to fuel holding. PE water and waste tanks are linear low density PE...petroleum will dissolve it. PE fuel tanks must be high density cross-linked PE, which is a different material from linear...plus, plastic fuel tanks must be USCG certified that they meet strict safety standards-- all fittings on the top of the tank, constructed to prevent liquid from pooling on any surface and a couple of others I can't recall without looking 'em up.
Even if it is metal, it's a still a very bad idea 'cuz some of those requirements apply to all fuel tanks and as swampu said, once a tank has held fuel, it can't be used for anything else.
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That's why I asked the owner of the company if it was possible with the current tanks. He said it wouldn't be a problem but I will double check on the material of the tanks. This would be done at the factory so I'm sure that it will be done to USCG safety regulations. I will be sure to have an in depth conversation with them. If I go through with this.
Thanks for your input!
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Dirtdoc1
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07-27-2017, 11:06 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
City: Wherever the boat is
Vessel Name: Kismet
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 458
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Just one comment on the bladder style tanks as I knocked this idea around for a while (before going with poly replacements)... bladders have a fixed 2-D shape. They don't actually "fit" in a space better than a poly tank, in fact, you will find the number of available dimensions of poly tanks far far greater than bladders. Once I figured that out, I saw zero benefit to having a variable height dimension.
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07-27-2017, 11:12 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
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IMHO you would ruin a perfectly acceptable setup for 99% of us by screwing up the tankage specs. Think resale.
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07-27-2017, 11:14 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,023
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A watermaker is handy in many ways. And you can make water almost anywhere with proper filters. I make all of my water. Last dock water was 2011. I use washable 20 and 5 micron in front of my regular watermaker filters. In rivers or bays I wash them about every 1-2000 gallons of final water. No membrane problems.
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07-27-2017, 11:30 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
City: North Port, FL
Vessel Name: Seven Tenths (sold)
Vessel Model: Mirage / Great Harbour 47
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 477
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How much fuel are you going to burn running the genset, so you can run the water maker?
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07-27-2017, 11:43 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
City: Palo Alto
Vessel Name: Ann-Elyse II
Vessel Model: North Pacific 45
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser
IMHO you would ruin a perfectly acceptable setup for 99% of us by screwing up the tankage specs. Think resale.
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Good point. Although a 1000+ mile range with a water maker might change those numbers. Still, definitely worth considering. I do intend to work my way up to a true blue water trawler one day. My dream is to motor to Palau and live on the boat. I spent a couple of weeks there on business and fell in love with the people first then the island. What a wonderful place.
Cheers
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Dirtdoc1
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