Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-19-2015, 12:29 PM   #1
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,612
What should I have done?

Yesterday I was heading west through Enterprise Channel, favouring the northern side of the passage. A sailboat (single handed) under power is heading north, with the intention of heading east through the passage. I am the stand-on vessel as he approaches my port bow. I watch closely for his intentions as he continues, without changing course. Increasingly it appears that he intends to cut across my bow, and yet I am concerned that if I turn to port he might turn to his starboard increasing my risk of collision. I pull back on the throttle and my vessel stalls (another issue that I need to explore). He continues on and cuts across my bow with me now dead in the water. I start my vessel and then head south.

What would you suggest I should have done in this instance? My intended course (approximate) is shown with the waypoint JDCAVE.

Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1442680108.309904.jpg
Views:	266
Size:	44.3 KB
ID:	44748


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
__________________
Advertisement

JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 12:31 PM   #2
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,204
What you did (apart from stall!). If in doubt, stop, so long as you feel that will not make things worse.

I would have also raised him on the radio and advised him that you were the stand on vssel as you were both under power.
__________________

menzies is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 12:39 PM   #3
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,612
It happened quickly. I was fumbling with the horn for 4 blasts, but the breaker was off. I would have raised him on the VHF, but I was contending with having to restart the vessel.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 12:48 PM   #4
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,801
Maintain course and speed. Raise him on the VHF the second you have any doubt. Course corrections need to be to starboard if at all possible, and made very clearly, not incrementally. You didn't have an operable horn, but if you did, and the VHf didn't raise him, the first signal would a one blast for a port to port passage. Sounds like you had a really clueless guy on your hands. Of course ultimately you have to do whatever it takes to avoid if collision is otherwise imminent.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 12:57 PM   #5
Guru
 
ulysses's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Shores, Ala.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ulysses
Vessel Model: Romsdal 1963
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 876
I agree you avoided collision so it must have been the right thing to do. My only question is within your original post you state the sail/power boat"s "intention" was to head west in the channel. I am curious as to how you determined its intention. VHF contact if he was monitoring would have been my first course of action early in the situation.
ulysses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:03 PM   #6
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
FYI, unless it's different in Canada, which I doubt, it's 5 soundings of the horn for the intentions not understood signal.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:05 PM   #7
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,612
Yes. I should have contacted on the VHF. The situation developed quickly and once I had stalled my decision was to restart the vessel. As I had lost power, I was "powerless" to make further course adjustments.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:08 PM   #8
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
FYI, unless it's different in Canada, which I doubt, it's 5 soundings of the horn for the intentions not understood signal.
Yes. Correct. I was posting from memory, but it don't routinely use the horn except under conditions of fog.

Clearly the gentleman was unaware of his obligations as to being the "give way" vessel. I wonder if he would have undershoot pad the meaning of 5 blasts of the horn.

As I was in a narrow channel, I would have thought he would have understood passing red to red.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:10 PM   #9
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
What you did (apart from stall!). If in doubt, stop, so long as you feel that will not make things worse.

I would have also raised him on the radio and advised him that you were the stand on vssel as you were both under power.
You did what you should have done, you acted to avoid a collision.

I agree with the suggestions already given. The horn would have been a good idea, either 1 short or 4 short. However, I will bet that the sailor would not have had a clue as to what they meant. In my experience, many sailors, including myself, are woefully fuzzy on the sound signals. I know that I have to think about them to remember, which is useless when you need to take action.

The radio would be a great idea, again it is best used far enough in advance, but like you I would have been expecting them to alter course. By the time you realized they weren't, you were dealing with a dead engine.

The only thing that you possibly could have done differently, and this is just a guess, is to make a clear course change to starboard much earlier
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:15 PM   #10
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,714
JDCAVE,
Could it be that you've got your engine idle speed too low?
I adjust mine so the engine won't quit when I come back of reverse backing out of a slip after the engine was cold only 3 or 4 minutes before. Haven't had a stall since I did that.

Many overpropped boats go too fast at idle but as long as the shifting is done quickly doing lots of shifting won't harm a transmission. Don't think there's any benifit from ultra low idle speeds.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:18 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Diesel Duck's Avatar
 
City: discomfort.reactants.peanuts
Country: Colombia, South America and Huatulco, Mexico
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 466
A simple laminated placard of the USCG Rule 34 - Maneuvering and Warning signals for both International and Inland Waters should fix any memory issues:

http://www.boatdocking.com/other/Sounds.html

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName...Content#rule34
__________________
Diesel Duck
*For Sale or Trade this oceanfront Mexican villa (www.QuintaAlegria.com) for the right 'Trawler' - Nordhavn, Kadey Krogen, Diesel Duck or ???
Diesel Duck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:25 PM   #12
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Duck 492 View Post
A simple laminated placard of the Maneuvering and Warning signals for both International and Inland Waters should fix any memory issues:


Boat Docking - Nautical Sound Signals
As I was reading the thread that was my thought as well. I need a handy placard I can stick somewhere.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:26 PM   #13
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Duck 492 View Post
A simple laminated placard of the Maneuvering and Warning signals for both International and Inland Waters should fix any memory issues:


Boat Docking - Nautical Sound Signals
Printed it...thanks!
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:41 PM   #14
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,612
All: thanks for your advice. I have a laminated cardboard that I need to get out. Clearly the VHF option would have been best and I often make contact with other vessels to agree on safe passes.

Eric: evidently the boat is not over propped as I can attain the spec RPMs at wide open throttle, but PH does go at 3.5 kts at idle. Too fast in my opinion.

I am due to change my fuel filters. My delay has been due to the fact it will be a first for me so want to be prepared. I have dual Racor 900's and the pressure gauge does not indicate an issue but I will change all filters, primary and secondary, when I am certain I have the procedure down. BTW, I have Microcommander electronic controls. Not sure if that might be contributory to stalling. I happened in one other occasion this summer.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:43 PM   #15
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,447
JD, it sounds like you need a checklist, so you can ensure you are properly configured for operating. I agree that under the circumstances you did the correct thing but by being improperly configured you left yourself no choices; although there was no accident, it sounds like a classic Swiss-cheese accident scenario that in fact left you powerless to maneuver and in some peril.

In my case, my procedure when confronted with a collision scenario is to make one obvious course correction. Should there be no response from the other vessel, I hail with a "securite" call or use the horn. If no response I pull the power lever back. Both vessels, despite right of way rules, are obligated to avoid a collision or placing another vessel in peril.

You need to be extra vigilant for @ssholes and should not put yourself at risk because of an inability to respond.

5 blasts on the horn is the correct number. "You are standing into danger."
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:53 PM   #16
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,612
What should I have done?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
JD, it sounds like you need a checklist, so you can ensure you are properly configured for operating. I agree that under the circumstances you did the correct thing but by being improperly configured you left yourself no choices; although there was no accident, it sounds like a classic Swiss-cheese accident scenario that in fact left you powerless to maneuver and in some peril.

In my case, my procedure when confronted with a collision scenario is to make one obvious course correction. Should there be no response from the other vessel, I hail with a "securite" call or use the horn. If no response I pull the power lever back. Both vessels, despite right of way rules, are obligated to avoid a collision or placing another vessel in peril.

You need to be extra vigilant for @ssholes and should not put yourself at risk because of an inability to respond.

5 blasts on the horn is the correct number. "You are standing into danger."

Admonishment appreciated and understood. Thanks Xsbank! A course correction to starboard sounds like the correct approach but there's not a lot of room in the channel to steer to either side in this channel. The VHF would also be appropriate. I don't think the "clueless clot" would have understood the 5 blasts signal.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 02:07 PM   #17
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,325
Perhaps you should mount a bison bull or narwhal skull to your bow?
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 02:16 PM   #18
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,184
Here's a good International Rules cheat sheet to laminate for use at the helm.

Compliments of Skipperdude on this post from 2011.

Gratuitous horn blowing
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Nav Whistles.gif
Views:	85
Size:	13.4 KB
ID:	44755  
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 02:20 PM   #19
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,668
Most five blasts of a whistle scenarios I've witnessed (I live in a ferry town) or encountered have been with sailboats under power.

Some of them even wave back because I'm so friendly, tootling my horn like that at them...
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 02:29 PM   #20
Ted
Guru
 
Ted's Avatar
 
City: Campbell River
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Okisollo
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 582
Lacking Mark's cannon, a shotgun blast (near vertical), has been known to
get the attention of ********s

Ted
__________________

Ted is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012