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Old 09-19-2015, 02:40 PM   #21
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Lacking Mark's cannon, a shotgun blast (near vertical), has been known to
get the attention of ********s

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You meant 5 blasts of the shotgun of course?


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Old 09-19-2015, 02:41 PM   #22
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I have never had much luck contacting sailboats on VHF. I think most have their fixed radio inside and a handheld, if any, in the cockpit off to save the battery.
Or maybe that guy thought he had the right of way even under power?
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:48 PM   #23
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You are right Steve. You hear the barges calling them all the time and get no response. If they cannot follow that simple rule, it's kind of hard to expect them to follow something as complex as the rules of navigation. I have seen power boats do the same though.
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:53 PM   #24
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I have never had much luck contacting sailboats on VHF. I think most have their fixed radio inside and a handheld, if any, in the cockpit off to save the battery.
Or maybe that guy thought he had the right of way even under power?
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You are right Steve. You hear the barges calling them all the time and get no response. If they cannot follow that simple rule, it's kind of hard to expect them to follow something as complex as the rules of navigation. I have seen power boats do the same though.
OK, maybe it is a regional difference? Here in the PNW larger sailboats almost always have a wired VHF in the cockpit which is turned on when underway.

Of course that doesn't mean that they actually know how to actually use it. I am still trying to figure out what "transmit" means.
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:53 PM   #25
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You meant 5 blasts of the shotgun of course?


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I think 5 blasts could get tiring, might not be able to hold as vertical
for later repeats.

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Old 09-19-2015, 03:11 PM   #26
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Greetings,
Mr. JD. Under the circumstances you describe, you did EXACTLY the correct thing IMO. Radios, horns, shotguns, canons etc. were unavailable to you at that exact moment so you stopped (save the stall) and waited with your boat out of harms way. Regardless of the "intellect" of the other boater, a collision was averted. Case closed. The GOOD thing is you learned a few things and will be better prepared in the future. Stop beating yourself up.
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:28 PM   #27
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I'm not so sure you did the right thing. You had a know problem with stalling at idle speed and yet you continued to the point you did stall. You should have seen this coming and reacted before you did i.e. slowing down to above idle speed and/'or changing course before the collision point. Had there been a collision you would probably have been held at close to 50% responsible. Not that I agree but the courts rarely assess 100% fault on one party. You would have been held partially responsible for taking out a boat with a known problem and lack of a sound signalling device.
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:43 PM   #28
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The practice here is for big ships is to sound one prolonged (at least four second) blast when approaching a plethora of small boats.

The motoring sailboater appears to be clueless. Best could be to put the finger on the horn button and count to at least four. This should attract his attention (heeere is Kadey Krogen!) and then re-evaluate future action. Radioing is problematic as you most likely won't determine the boat's name, if ever, the other boater won't have his radio on, if any, and there is normally no time to do this. If the boater doesn't appropriately react, change speed/course to avoid collision.

Normally, I just change course/speed if the other boater hasn't already done so by the time expected. Often, a minimal course change at long distance avoids the problem.
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Old 09-19-2015, 06:49 PM   #29
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I'm not so sure you did the right thing. You had a know problem with stalling at idle speed and yet you continued to the point you did stall. You should have seen this coming and reacted before you did i.e. slowing down to above idle speed and/'or changing course before the collision point. Had there been a collision you would probably have been held at close to 50% responsible. Not that I agree but the courts rarely assess 100% fault on one party. You would have been held partially responsible for taking out a boat with a known problem and lack of a sound signalling device.

"Thanks Boatpoker" he said sheepishly. I certainly defer to your knowledge and background. I would hope that the courts would at least acknowledge that a) he was the giveway vessel and b) that I had slowed down and taken some action to avoid collision. There wasn't a lot of room in the channel for me, the larger vessel to turn aggressively to starboard. Note that had I taken starboard action, he may we'll have run into us as he came across our bow anyways. That said, I could have, and should have done more. There is always something in hindsight which is why I am asking people for different possibilities. Definitely need to ensure the horn breaker is on next time.

...not sure I would have admitted that the vessel had stalled once before. We've been out on the boat for 3 months this year speeding up and slowing down to idle countless times and this is the only the second time it has stalled.


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Old 09-19-2015, 06:51 PM   #30
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I'm with RTF on this. I had a powerboat perform exactly the same maneuver on me a few weeks ago. Put 2 boats in danger when a slight correction would have made the passing completely benign . Best thing to do with such a dumb and dangerous move is to slowdown and or stop as you did.

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Old 09-19-2015, 07:21 PM   #31
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Regardless of any engine issues, I would probably have done the same thing. When in doubt, cutting your speed to allow more time to assess the situation is almost always a good plan.
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Old 09-19-2015, 07:35 PM   #32
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Regardless of any engine issues, I would probably have done the same thing. When in doubt, cutting your speed to allow more time to assess the situation is almost always a good plan.
Avoidance was done too late. Read on.

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I'm not so sure you did the right thing. You had a know problem with stalling at idle speed and yet you continued to the point you did stall. You should have seen this coming and reacted before you did i.e. You would have been held partially responsible for taking out a boat with a known problem and lack of a sound signalling device.

Boatpoker, you win the prize, calling it correctly from 2000 miles away and I'll tell you why. But for the moment, let's take the stall out of the equation.

Enterprise Channel is not an extremely tight or lengthy waterway.
Visibility was not an issue. Based on the attached chart, the sailboat was tracking well away from the channel. Here, I assume the two vessels were not travelling at a high rate of speed. 10 knots or less, maybe? Based on local knowledge, I believe under all these conditions the sailboat should have been visible for at least 1 mile and a collision course could have been determined long before "it happened quickly."

JD;
The first mistake you made was assuming anything about the other boater. I take that back...you should always assume the other boat is intent on running you down and be prepared well in advance. Everything else is an excuse:

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A sailboat (single handed) under power is heading north, with the intention of heading east through the passage. I am the stand-on vessel as he approaches my port bow. I watch closely for his intentions as he continues, without changing course. Increasingly it appears that he intends to cut across my bow, and yet I am concerned that if I turn to port he might turn to his starboard increasing my risk of collision. I pull back on the throttle and my vessel stalls (another issue that I need to explore). He continues on and cuts across my bow with me now dead in the water. I start my vessel and then head south.

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It happened quickly. I was fumbling with the horn for 4 blasts, but the breaker was off. I would have raised him on the VHF, but I was contending with having to restart the vessel...(I) don't routinely use the horn except under conditions of fog.
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As I was in a narrow channel, I would have thought he would have understood passing red to red.
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All: thanks for your advice. I have a laminated cardboard that I need to get out. Clearly the VHF option would have been best and I often make contact with other vessels to agree on safe passes.

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I am due to change my fuel filters. My delay
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has been due to the fact it will be a first for me so want to be prepared. I have dual Racor 900's and the pressure gauge does not indicate an issue but I will change all filters, primary and secondary, when I am certain I have the procedure down. BTW, I have Microcommander electronic controls. Not sure if that might be contributory to stalling. I happened in one other occasion this summer.
I'm sorry JD but in my estimation, the predicament you found yourself in was avoidable. The "what should I have done?" was really a before the fact, not after, question. For whatever reason, you were ill prepared on so many levels and if it's any comfort, I've been there.
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:16 PM   #33
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Avoidance was done too late. Read on.


I'm sorry JD but in my estimation, the predicament you found yourself in was avoidable. The "what should I have done?" was really a before the fact, not after, question. For whatever reason, you were ill prepared on so many levels and if it's any comfort, I've been there.
What type of boat do you operate, Hawgwash? I don't see anything in your profile.
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:52 PM   #34
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The practice here is for big ships is to sound one prolonged (at least four second) blast when approaching a plethora of small boats.
So where you boat commercial ships sound a signal that has no meaning in the situation described here!? I don't understand why they would open themselves up to that liability when it would be just as easy to sound the correct signal.
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:01 PM   #35
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The horn would have been a good idea, either 1 short or 4 short. However, I will bet that the sailor would not have had a clue as to what they meant.
It seems I don't have a clue either. What does 4 short blasts on the horn mean?
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:08 PM   #36
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So where you boat commercial ships sound a signal that has no meaning in the situation described here!? I don't understand why they would open themselves up to that liability when it would be just as easy to sound the correct signal.

So, what's wrong with a prolonged signal, signifying "here I am" especially when the other boat doesn't act like it is aware of your presence? Many/most boaters aren't aware of the meaning of specific sound signals, so it's often best to just let them know you're there. I presume boaters are clueless/ignorant until they otherwise demonstrate competence/awareness. So far, this belief has kept me from a collision. No doubt you're aware of my preference for a loud horn, exceeding minimal requirements.


About the only sound signal I've heard on ships (something like 200 days on board over a dozen years) is the prolonged signal. Rarely three shorts for going in reverse leaving a dock and no signals for right/left turns or multiple shorts signifying "danger/confusion."
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:33 PM   #37
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When in doubt, cutting your speed to allow more time to assess the situation is almost always a good plan.


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Old 09-19-2015, 09:53 PM   #38
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So, what's wrong with a prolonged signal, signifying "here I am" especially when the other boat doesn't act like it is aware of your presence? Many/most boaters aren't aware of the meaning of specific sound signals, so it's often best to just let them know you're there. I presume boaters are clueless/ignorant until they otherwise demonstrate competence/awareness. So far, this belief has kept me from a collision. No doubt you're aware of my preference for a loud horn, exceeding minimal requirements.


About the only sound signal I've heard on ships (something like 200 days on board over a dozen years) is the prolonged signal. Rarely three shorts for going in reverse leaving a dock and no signals for right/left turns or multiple shorts signifying "danger/confusion."

It would quickly become obvious what's wrong with sounding the incorrect signal once the captain is in a maritime court of law.

As I said, it makes no sense to sound a meaningless signal when it's just as easy to sound the correct signal and achieve the same goal while covering your ass at the same time. You don't hear a lot of signals between ships anymore due to the invention and accepted use of the radio to convey their intentions. If you tune to channel 13 once in a while in an area with a high volume of commercial traffic you'll see what I mean.

Or take a hand held VHF along on one of your many cruises and perhaps you'll get a clearer picture why you haven't been hearing manuvering signals.

And no I was not fully aware you had an unusually loud horn to blow. Not sure why I would be. But I do agree with your preference.
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:56 PM   #39
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It seems I don't have a clue either. What does 4 short blasts on the horn mean?
Nothing
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:01 PM   #40
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Thought so
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