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Old 09-09-2013, 03:02 PM   #1
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What sense does this make...?

I'm certain that there is a point to this that we don't understand, but at about the 1:23 mark in this video of a Carver Voyager 450, the cameraman directs his lens to what he says are engine controls mounted on the ceiling of the stern deck (which he refers to as the cockpit, suggesting we were mis-applying that word already).



I'm certain that there is a point to having these here, but I'll be damned if I understand it... it would seem mostly like a way for the kids to irritate the actual pilot. Can someone please clarify?

Thanks,
Shanty
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:24 PM   #2
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I guess you're not a fisherman? lol

The boat is set up for fishing, with a live well bait tank, cleaning or bait table on the transom. Many fishing yachts, most are sports fishermen style, have a complete steering station in the cockpit. From the video this one appears to have just the engine controls. They are used for maneuvering while fishing.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:29 PM   #3
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Also could be used for docking maneuvers.
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:41 PM   #4
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"the cameraman directs his lens to what he says are engine controls mounted on the ceiling of the stern deck (which he refers to as the cockpit, suggesting we were mis-applying that word already)."

I agree with the above - very handy to have those controls in the cockpit for backing down on big fish. And, yes, it's called a cockpit...not to be confused with an airplane cockpit. The steering station on a boat is called the helm. The water-level stern deck on a boat is called a cockpit.

Don't know who the heck mixed it up on airplanes, but I blame the French.
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:57 PM   #5
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Hard to believe, but the French had nothing to do with cockpit as a nautical term. Was the Royal Navy and I think it was below deck.




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Old 09-09-2013, 06:10 PM   #6
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Marty, I was thinking the nautical terms came first so they're correct. It's the aviation term that followed that appears confusing to me. The French also gave us words like fuselage, empannage, aileron and monocoque.

Maybe, since the original cockpit was the aft helm of a sailboat and since it was aft, it kept the name cockpit even after the helm controls were moved forward into the civility of the boat's interior. Just guessing here...
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Shantyhag View Post
I'm certain that there is a point to this that we don't understand, but at about the 1:23 mark in this video of a Carver Voyager 450, the cameraman directs his lens to what he says are engine controls mounted on the ceiling of the stern deck (which he refers to as the cockpit, suggesting we were mis-applying that word already).

I'm certain that there is a point to having these here, but I'll be damned if I understand it... it would seem mostly like a way for the kids to irritate the actual pilot. Can someone please clarify?

Thanks,
Shanty
If you have ever tried to back in a motor yacht...I would give dear money for controls like that on most of them...you just can't see the stern on most of them.

Looks like they are in the "cockpit" to me....
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:22 PM   #8
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OK ... Now let's talk about the "bridge." Wasn't that the walkway between steam-powered side-wheels where the ship's helmsman was located? And then there is the "pilothouse" ... My "bridge" is within the Coot's "pilothouse," a space separate from the saloon (and the occasional guests tasting wine and cheese).

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Old 09-09-2013, 08:38 PM   #9
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Hard to believe, but the French had nothing to do with cockpit as a nautical term.
Flywright didn't say that the French were guilty...he said he's blaming them.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:15 PM   #10
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Yikes - Brief segue here!

Soon as you place the word "Cock" into most word-combos things can get rather interesting/confusing.

I know, having owned a young person’s tavern when I was very young.

CockTail is most apropos at or after closing time... at least that was the joke my male and female customers liked to muse... just sayen!

Imagine with today’s intimacy jargon... the word CockPit could be taken to the extreme!

OK – Nuff o’ dat funnen crap! Back to marine stuff!

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Old 09-09-2013, 09:32 PM   #11
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This explains the "pit" part.

From the Oxford Englsh Dictionary:

Cockpit

Origin:

late 16th century (sense 2): from cock1 + pit1. In the early 18th century the term was in nautical use, denoting an area in the aft lower deck of a man-of-war where the wounded were taken, later coming to mean 'the “pit” or well in a sailing yacht from which it was steered'; hence the place housing the controls of other vehicles (sense 1, early 20th century)
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:34 AM   #12
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Angus99

Thanks for the clarification.

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Old 09-10-2013, 06:56 AM   #13
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Ahhh, here's one I know something about. On a big ship, an Admiral might have a "barge". The Captain would have a "launch". The ship would have a "boat" (or boats) to take the crew ashore, tow the ship when there was no wind, etc. An old, dilapidated boat used for exterior maintenance was called the "cock."

That's where the word "coxswain" comes from. The Bo'sun (boatswain) is in charge of the boat(s) and other general deck duties. The coxswain is in charge of the cock. I'm not making this up.

My guess, and it's only that, is that the cock was kept in an out-of-the-way spot (a pit) somewhere low and aft. Hence, cockpit.
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:21 AM   #14
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This follows what I have heard through the years....

The original sense of this term was a pit for fighting cocks. This sense appears around 1587. In 1599, Shakespeare used the term in Henry V to refer to the theater and specifically the area around the stage. The theatrical reference was his invention, obviously playing on the idea of a cockfight being a performance.

The nautical sense arose about 1700. It was not an open area, but rather a compartment below decks. Normally, it would be the sleeping quarters for junior officers, but in battle would be the hospital. This sense appears unrelated to the theatrical sense, and may have been chosen because junior officers lorded over the sailors like roosters or because of a physical resemblance to the space where chickens were kept. The nautical sense transferred to airplanes around 1914 and to cars in the mid-1930s.�

Word origins.org

�The first "cockpits" were actual pits in the ground constructed (to the extent that one "constructs" a pit) to house "cockfights" to the death between game cocks (essentially very belligerent chickens). Cockfighting, a barbaric "sport" usually conducted for gambling purposes, probably originated in ancient China and remains distressingly popular around the world.

As a name for the scene of such grisly matches, "cockpit" showed up in English in the 16th century. By the 1700's, "cockpit" was being used as a metaphor for any scene of combat, especially areas (such as parts of Belgium and France) known as traditional battlefields. "Cockpit" was then adopted by pilots in World War I, who applied it to the cramped operating quarters of their fighter planes. Our modern sense of cockpit includes the entire crew areas of large airliners, which are usually fairly spacious and not, one hopes, the scene of conflict.�



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Old 09-10-2013, 10:32 AM   #15
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Ahhh, here's one I know something about. On a big ship, an Admiral might have a "barge". The Captain would have a "launch".
In the Navy I was in, we called the captain's ride a "Gig."
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:58 AM   #16
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OK, so this is definitely a fun run on the etymology of nautical terms. Like so often, I received even more than what we were after (thank you, Art, for making that especially so). CaptTom, you have the 'cockpit' explanation that I would pick if this were a game show and I had to choose the correct story between three competing answers.

What confused me most about the controls in the cockpit were the engine controls without the rest of the helm controls. Alas, not a fisherman-- YET-- but will take the words of my betters and believe that these truly would be a boon.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:31 PM   #17
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Since their intended use is for backing up (backing down?) on a fish or dock, the rudders are of little consequence. Differential power from the twin engines controls the direction. That's how I see it anyway...

Congrats to CaptTom for winning the grand prize. Shantyhag, tell him what he won!

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Old 09-10-2013, 12:32 PM   #18
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Greetings,
When I'm maneuvering, the only thing I use is the engine controls throttle/transmission for the most part. (Rudder adjust occasionally)
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:47 PM   #19
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OK, so this is definitely a fun run on the etymology of nautical terms. Like so often, I received even more than what we were after (thank you, Art, for making that especially so). CaptTom, you have the 'cockpit' explanation that I would pick if this were a game show and I had to choose the correct story between three competing answers.

What confused me most about the controls in the cockpit were the engine controls without the rest of the helm controls. Alas, not a fisherman-- YET-- but will take the words of my betters and believe that these truly would be a boon.

If you really think sailing ships of old would waste space aboard for a "work float" as in old dilapidated boat...then I can understand....

sorry but they probably would probably use that space for something usefull on these mega voyages....a POS boat that could be had in any harbor would probably not be carried along....

The coxswain /ˈkɒksən/ is the person in charge of a boat, particularly its navigation and steering. The etymology of the word gives a literal meaning of "boat servant" since it comes from cox, a coxboat or other small vessel kept aboard a ship, and swain, an Old English term derived from the Old Norse sveinn meaning boy or servant.

There were no "low out of the way" spots on old sailing ships...there were great cabins where the master usually stayed.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:05 PM   #20
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Greetings,
When I'm maneuvering, the only thing I use is the engine controls throttle/transmission for the most part. (Rudder adjust occasionally)
-----------

For docking purposes, once I make the turn to the slip, I center the rudders and it's all throttle and shifter from that point on.

I don't think it was mentioned and it's not in the video, but the boat could have a remote rudder control too, joy stick or handheld and we just don't see it. Either way it would be a real plus to have cockpit engine controls when fishing.

For the type of fishing we are doing, I wish I had them on the bow. We're sticking the bow within 10 -15 feet of rock walls and outcroppings while jigging for Lingcod. The engines are used to hold the boat off and the bow perpendicular to the rocks, while the boat drifts down the rock wall. The rudders are not used and you don't want to make a mistake!!
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