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Old 07-25-2012, 01:25 PM   #41
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It's the forward-raked pilothouse windows when applied to recreational boats that look so silly and pretentious to me.
The forward / reverse raked windows are a common design element in the PNW where the so-called "crabber design" was introduced by Marco (who also created the power-block) to keep their boats' windscreens from getting stove-in when they maneuvered in rough seas.

The other advantages of this design include space in the cabin, being able to position electronics above, reducing glare, and keeping the windscreen dry. It should be clear that at least a couple of these advantages have safety implications!

As with most marine technology, Europe leads the way here. DNV (Det Norske Veritas) is "an independent foundation with the purpose of safeguarding life, property, and the environment (with)...history goes back to 1864, when the foundation was established in Norway to inspect and evaluate the technical condition of Norwegian merchant vessels", and their rules for patrol boats requires the front and side windows to be reversed angled. They long ago realized that function - and safety - trumps fashion.

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In any kind of waves at all on a windy day, if we are quartering into them or even heading straight into them we have the wipers going all the time.
Everyone can decide for themselves what's "silly and pretentious".
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:33 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
Gee, if you are going to judge a person by the why there lines are cleat, you would not ever talk to me as my grandchildren and or wife usually cleat the lines and as long as it secured its good with me.
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Actually the majority of the boaters cleat the line by under locking the line, which should not be done as it can not be undone when under a strain....
PF: You clearly understand the function of the cleat hitch - to allow someone to quickly unhitch the line - one-handed - while it is under strain. Don't you also think it's your responsibility - as captain and master - to instruct your crew?
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:37 PM   #43
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:45 PM   #44
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Refugio---I have been aware of the reason behind forward raked pilothouse windows for ages and I don't dispute their value on vessels that encounter the kind of conditions that warrant them.

But a little toy recreational boat like the ones most of us have that rarely sees waves more than four feet high isn't operating under conditions where forward raked windows are going to provide any benefit at all other than perhaps the glare thing.

So to me, me being the operative word, they look silly and ruin the lines of every boat I see them on. I think they're butt-ugly on all vessels, frankly, but on the ones where their advantages are actually needed, function trumps aesthetics.

PS-- Forward raked pilothouse windows on our boat would make absolutley no difference to the spray hitting the windshield and having to be cleaned off with the wipers. I've had the privilege of going out on a 47' RNLI motor lifeboat in Fleet, England, several years ago and we were taking all kinds of spray onto the boat as we went through the waves. The boat, which has forward-raked windshield panels, had the wipers going full bore the whole time. It was the only way to see ahead.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:06 PM   #45
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If you go back to the original post that started this thread it is where the comment was made about not being found dead in a bayliner.

Boats all serve different functions and are largely designed for different functions and different stages in life and different budgets. To me, whatever stage you are in, what ever function you are seeking, and whatever budget is within your reach and all the above combine to make you happy is the right boat to buy. That could be a plethera of brands and a plethera of styles. I definitely have my own personal preferences on looks and lines and quality and desires in my boats, but each I have owned have served a function in my life and my family to get us on the water and met the need we had at the time and the style of boating we were seeking.
My bad...I normally don't spend much time in threads like this so it was easy for me to skip over the comment in the first post as I usually couldn't care less about comments like that because I consider the source..

I like to poke back more at the owners as the boats are all good in some way!
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:01 PM   #46
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:58 PM   #47
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It's all a matter of perspective.
Loved it, Garry.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:31 PM   #48
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But a little toy recreational boat like the ones most of us have...isn't operating under conditions where forward raked windows are going to provide any benefit at all other than perhaps the glare thing.
Well, there's the "rain thing" which I seem to encounter quite a bit (YMMV) and for which I rarely need to use my wiper.

And then there's the "sun thing" which we don't get as much of (again, YMMV) but I'm sure glad to take the heat load off the pilothouse when it does happen (I have fabric screens over the rear windows - even though there's an overhang I can get some significant sun coming in when heading North).

And then there's the "room in the pilothouse" - my wheel is less than 24" from the front bulkhead of the PH and - with electronics overhead - I have comfortable passing distance between my full-size reclining helm chair and the settee behind.

And then there's the absence of leaking windows. I can't can't tell you how many boats I've seen with water intrusion in unprotected windows. And with wood frames? One of the all-time "nautical bad ideas" (tm). I'm in the process of refitting the Diamond SeaGlaze saloon windows - after 30 years being mostly outside they have delaminated in a several spots. The forward PH windows are, of course, virginal.

There is a downside though...dust can collect on the inside surface and I've found it necessary to Windex them every 6 months or so. But I can live with that.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:49 PM   #49
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I hear what you're saying and appreciate the points.

Our GB has a sufficient overhang on the front of the flying bridge to take care of a lot of the rain thing plus it has exellent wipers. As to the issue of space between the helm and the windshield there's enough there to mount anything one wants with room left over. Glare is not an issue, again due to the flying bridge overhang. And the pilothouse windows don't leak (yet) despite a near-gone seal on the middle opening window.

So on our boat, forward raked windows would accomplish nothing of any value. And even if they did, we would still think they looked horrible. I don't think we'd ever buy a boat with forward-raked windows even if everything else about the boat met our requirements to a T. There are a ton of great boats out there without them so there is no need for us to put up with a design element we both hate.

So for us it's not a function issue, it's purely an aesthetic one. And we aren't interested in entertaining any compromises in that respect--- it's either up to our standards or it's not, the operative word being "our."
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:01 PM   #50
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So Marin are you saying you don't like forward raked windows?

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Old 07-25-2012, 06:09 PM   #51
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So Marin are you saying you don't like forward raked windows?
On a whim I Googled ["Grand Banks" forward raked windows], selected Images, and clicked on the 14th image...which took me to this thread:
Wannabee Windows

So not only does he <del>not like</del> hate forward raked windows, he <del>didn't like</del> hated them last year either. And that's when I noticed that the Manatee in post 82 of that thread (great Photoshop work by healhustler!) had forward raked windows, which brings us full circle.

Now, what was Emmerson's quote about consistency? I forget
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:09 PM   #52
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So Marin are you saying you don't like forward raked windows?

SD
Not at all. I'm saying I hate forward raked windows.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:11 PM   #53
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Marin's nightmare: having to choose between a Bruce anchor, forward-raked pilothouse windows, or going boatless.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:13 PM   #54
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Or a Selene versus a Bayliner.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:34 PM   #55
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No, a Selene vs a Fleming. Which of course the Fleming would win hands down even if the Selene had normal pilothouse windows.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:39 PM   #56
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Marin's nightmare: having to choose between a Bruce anchor, forward-raked pilothouse windows, or going boatless.
I'd choose the Bruce, no question, because all I'd have to do is drop that POS over the side and go buy a decent anchor. Can't change wannabe windows that easily and going boatless would be a drag.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:40 PM   #57
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No, a Selene vs a Fleming.
No, a Selene versus a custom-order widebody Fleming with no side decks!
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:44 PM   #58
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Sorry, Marin. Nightmares are irrational so you wouldn't have the option within the nightmare. The Bruce would remain your primary anchor. You'd have to wake up and then say something like "thank goodness it was only a dream."
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:36 PM   #59
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haha does anyone remember the original question?
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:45 PM   #60
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My boat speaks Chinese... I have no *&@*& clue what it says about me
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