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Old 07-24-2012, 06:54 PM   #21
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I don't know what tribe I belong to - except that every boat I've owned has had a single engine (except a CDory 22 with twins I sold earlier this year). Sail, power, displacement, planing, steel, wood, frozen snot (aka fiberglass), and now cement.

My wife, however, has only given me approval to buy a Hinckley or a Fleming - she was impressed with a large Nordhavn but it didn't feel like "her kind of boat"! In case you hadn't already guessed, I'm not likely to be getting another boat in this lifetime...
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:06 PM   #22
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I'll tell you one are where I'm a snob - basic seamanship. You can have the nicest boat in the harbor but if your cleat hitch looks like a dog's breakfast, I'm going to find it hard to even look you in the face.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:23 PM   #23
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I'll tell you one are where I'm a snob - basic seamanship. You can have the nicest boat in the harbor but if your cleat hitch looks like a dog's breakfast, I'm going to find it hard to even look you in the face.
Totally agree...especially right after the guy tells you how he's been boating his whole life!!
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:25 PM   #24
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My wife and I were saying this exact same thing just the other night. It is a good feeling to have someone compliment you on your boat (no matter how utilitarian you think it is) but it feels better to have someone compliment you on your docking.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:44 PM   #25
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Most every time I'm on the boat in the marina (like today), passerbys on the dock say they like the looks of my boat. In fact, week or so ago the mechanic who fixed my propeller shaft was all excited for the opportunity to come aboard when I visited the boatyard to arrange the fix.



While the boat's appearance appeals to me (and able to choose its color scheme), it wasn't the top priority in selecting the Coot. Single-engined, keel-protected prop and rudder, 360-degree deck and pilothouse visibility, etcetera were higher priorities.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:12 PM   #26
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Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder, or so they say. While I don't think the sole reason or perhaps even the main reason to buy a boat is because you like how it looks, I do think it is a factor for most people.
Been to a marina lately? They are chock full of ugly boats. I'll admit that I am a boat snob. Cars and trucks look "right" with the proper "stance". Boats look "right" with a proper sheer line. Poor cabin lines can ruin a pretty hull, but nothing can make an ugly sheerline look good.

I would venture that many trawler owners are a bit of anachronists; and I'm not talking about the silly people who dress up in chain mail and play swords in the park on Sunday afternoons. I mean pragmatic, Keep It Simple Stupid, form follows function, if it ain't broke don't fix it type of people.

On that note, I have to say that Nordic Tugs look downright silly and cliche with the faux stack; Spy's is removed and stored in my shed at home. I've had many people tell me that I have the nicest looking fishboat conversion that they've ever seen. To me, that is a high compliment to Lynn Seynour, the designer.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:22 PM   #27
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Been to a marina lately? They are chock full of ugly boats. I'll admit that I am a boat snob. Cars and trucks look "right" with the proper "stance". Boats look "right" with a proper sheer line. Poor cabin lines can ruin a pretty hull, but nothing can make an ugly sheerline look good.

I would venture that many trawler owners are a bit of anachronists; and I'm not talking about the silly people who dress up in chain mail and play swords in the park on Sunday afternoons. I mean pragmatic, Keep It Simple Stupid, form follows function, if it ain't broke don't fix it type of people.

On that note, I have to say that Nordic Tugs look downright silly and cliche with the faux stack; Spy's is removed and stored in my shed at home. I've had many people tell me that I have the nicest looking fishboat conversion that they've ever seen. To me, that is a high compliment to Lynn Seynour, the designer.
We agree on that. A sheer line should be higher at the bow than the middle. I've never seen a reverse sheer boat I thought was attractive.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:07 AM   #28
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My wife and I were saying this exact same thing just the other night. It is a good feeling to have someone compliment you on your boat (no matter how utilitarian you think it is) but it feels better to have someone compliment you on your docking.
Right on! One of the highlights of my relationship with Budds Outlet was the day I was having her hauled and as I brought her up to a rather short empty spot at the dock I used some smooth manuvers I'd been taught to settle her just right against the dock. A couple of the yard guys had come to help dock her and they just stood there and said ' you sure didn't need us here." Yeah, but I sure did like having them there to see it.

I don't have a clue what I'm trying to project with my selection of boats. I am already in love with our next boat and it's nothing like Budds Outlet. It is a "cabin cruiser" as Marin calls them and to me it represents in looks and utility everything I want our little ship to project. I'm in love with her lines.

I'm sure I care what other people think but I must not get too hung up on it. I'm the guy in the Meyers-Briggs exercises that is off standing in one corner of the room by himself (really, it has happed to me). I'm just real fortunate to have an Admiral who has stood by me 42 years and likes the same thing in boats that I do. Her only issue is that I'm not buying that bigger boat fast enough for her.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:56 AM   #29
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Boat shopping can do some strange things to you. Several years ago we were in the market for a liveaboard (situation changed before we got one) and we went to a shipyard in Marathon FL Keys. To this day I can't for the life of me remember what boat we went to see. What I do remember is that it was one of the very first boat hunting expeditions we went on for a boat that size (40-44'). Well the boat we went to see like 99% of them didn't even come close to what we actually wanted. The savvy broker said "Wellllllll, I do have another boat you might want to look at". It ruined our boat shopping mindset for atleast a couple of months! We wanted a nice slow, heavy, thrifty, full-keel trawler. The link below is the boat he showed us!! It is still for sale atleast 3 years now (probably closer to 4+)! It still sticks out in my mind as one of those Oh wow boats and if it hadn't been for the monster engines I think we'd have made an offer. Back then it was a touch under $200K, its owner was supposedly the west marine owner/manager's and he had relocated out to the west coast. This boat wasn't perfect but as I say it did stick out in our minds strongly enough that we kept comparing everything we saw to it and to get into a trawler that had that same feeling was in the $250K and up bracket and even then they didn't have nearly as much space. I can't speak to the quality of these boats, but if you have the opportunity, check out one. Its in the link below

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=76035&url=

D'oh missed that part about the cockpit. This may not appeal to you at all then.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:11 AM   #30
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"Most of us here are members of the "older classic trawler tribe" a bleach jug like a rivera or a Bayliner might do really well what we use our boats for, but most of us wouldn't be caught dead in one."

So you are willing to pay 500% to 2500% more for a boat that will offer the same water pleasures , so you can strut the dock ?

WOW!
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:25 AM   #31
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As I've said in other threads, the boat is every bit as important to me as the experience. Even if we were to have the most amazing experience on the planet out boating, it would not be quite as amazing if we were having it in a boat that didn't meet our aesthetic requirements. I'm not a form-follows-function person when it comes to things like cars or boats (or planes for that matter)........
The picture below is pretty much my favorite boat right now. In fact we hope to charter it next year (with its crew). While I would not want the tremendous upkeep a vessel like this requires, and while it is considerably larger than what we want or need, to me the Gikumi embodies everything I like in a boat design. Anything less is a compromise, and I'm not much on compromises when it comes to designs.

Attachment 12079
Crikey Marin, are you ok, or did you eat a bad oyster. That dream boat of your has...well...there's only one way to say it..."almost...nearly...virtually...forward raked windscreens"...! Vat hass happened...? Have you had a 'road to Damascus' conversion experience..?
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:39 AM   #32
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There are boats other than Moonstruck in the harbor? I hadn't noticed!

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Old 07-25-2012, 09:09 AM   #33
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Our sundeck/cockpit Taiwanese 42' meets all the criteria, she was sold to us as a Fu Hwa but I see them on the west coast as Pacific Trawler or Nova Sundeck. 1986 under $100,000.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:08 AM   #34
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"Most of us here are members of the "older classic trawler tribe" a bleach jug like a rivera or a Bayliner might do really well what we use our boats for, but most of us wouldn't be caught dead in one."

So you are willing to pay 500% to 2500% more for a boat that will offer the same water pleasures , so you can strut the dock ?

WOW!
Its funny, but the "I wouldn't be caught dead in a Bayliner(or a Rinker, or a XXXX brand)" comments always come from folks online.

They Never come from folks that have actually been on one.

The comments I get from other people at the dock are quite a bit different.

A Trawler Forum member who owned a Sea dory at the time went aboard my old 2859 several years ago. His comment was "I better not show this to my wife, She'd love it."

People walking by on the dock invaribly say "great looking boat".

Here in the Pacific Northwest taking a walk down the dock is pretty much a Bayliner model tour. Far and away the most popular boats at the harbor are Bayliners in my neck of the woods. You see the range of boats.

Old ones that look like new boats. Newer ones that are neglected. Boats from the 80's, whose owners are still having fun on them (yes Bayliners can last just like other brands )

You know, I have NEVER knocked someone elses choice in boat. I think people that own boats, especially boats sitting in a permenant slip are a sort of community. We all are in the same boat so to speak.

At the same time I have spent many hours defending the larger Bayliner boats (I've owned 5 of them) to people online that for the most part either don't even own a boat, or have no direct knowledge of what they post about so passionately about.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #35
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Its funny, but the "I wouldn't be caught dead in a Bayliner(or a Rinker, or a XXXX brand)" comments always come from folks online.

The comments I get from other people at the dock are quite a bit different.
That has been my experience walking docks too. This and other forums are the only place I hear people putting down Bayliners and Sea Rays. The "Forum" reputation of these boats actually kept me from looking at these brands in my initial search.

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People walking by on the dock invaribly say "great looking boat".
And they are.

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Old ones that look like new boats. Newer ones that are neglected. Boats from the 80's, whose owners are still having fun on them (yes Bayliners can last just like other brands )
The neglected ones stand out in any brand. I have seen some truly trashed Grand Banks and other so-called "quality brands".



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I have spent many hours defending the larger Bayliner boats (I've owned 5 of them) to people online that for the most part either don't even own a boat, or have no direct knowledge of what they post about so passionately about.
I and many others(I assume) have noticed. Some of the thickest skinned members on this forum are Bayliner owners. It seems like every week you guys get kicked in the crotch for owning a nice boat.

I also assume(from your description in other posts) that you have more "Boat Bucks" tied up in your boat than at least 80% of other TF members. Yet you never mention that as you politely defend your brand from nearly non stop bashing.

You have a nice boat Kevin and I was guilty as a newbie of making a generalization about Bayliner boats that I have never made again after looking at and driving a few. BTW I formed my initial opinion by reading the archives here.

They where obviously mass produced, especially in the smaller sizes, and mass marketed. But the same thing kills them that kills any other boat. Neglect. Neglect any boats maintenance long enough and it'll be ready for the dumpster.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:06 AM   #36
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At least for me, looks count. They don't rule, but, all else being equal, looks make a big difference.

My Com-Pac 23 and my MT 34 both, in my eyes, look like boats are supposed to look.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:19 PM   #37
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I'll tell you one are where I'm a snob - basic seamanship. You can have the nicest boat in the harbor but if your cleat hitch looks like a dog's breakfast, I'm going to find it hard to even look you in the face.



Gee, if you are going to judge a person by the why there lines are cleat, you would not ever talk to me as my grandchildren and or wife usually cleat the lines and as long as it secured its good with me. I would never ever re cleat a line my wife did. Actually the majority of the boaters cleat the line by under locking the line, which should not be done as it can not be undone when under a strain. Just figure 8 the line unit the cleat is full or run out of line. So how it looks is not as important as function and who cleated it to me.

I have never been good at docking the Eagle, and always request assistance. I have not caused hurt/damaged, but it just not PRETTY. We use to belong to a yacht club that graded the docking. My grade was usually between 3 and 6. The reason is when we come up against the dock we move it being 40+ tons which took a lot off the points. However most said they would not want to dock the Eagle.

However the Eagle is one of the most looked at/viewed and photo boats in the Everett marina. Well, that might be because we are at the front of the marina and the first boat on the dock, but people do admire the teak bright trim and decks, and the clean white classic look. I think Bayliner are a great boat and value, but most Bayliners get concerned when the Eagle comes close and/or along side. so there is the reverse side also.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:49 PM   #38
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I for one, truly and honestly hope I am never found dead aboard a bayliner- that would NOT be a good day whatsoever in the earthly sense.

Wasn't the only Bayliner knock FROM a Bayliner owner with a wink at the end?
The only think worse than slamming someone's boat too vigorously is DEFENDING YOUR choice of boats too vigorously .
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:51 PM   #39
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Crikey Marin, are you ok, or did you eat a bad oyster. That dream boat of your has...well...there's only one way to say it..."almost...nearly...virtually...forward raked windscreens"...! Vat hass happened...? Have you had a 'road to Damascus' conversion experience..?
I love vertical pilothouse windows on a boat that is designed for them, like the Gikumi and many others. It's the forward-raked pilothouse windows when applied to recreational boats that look so silly and pretentious to me.
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:21 PM   #40
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I for one, truly and honestly hope I am never found dead aboard a bayliner- that would NOT be a good day whatsoever in the earthly sense.

Wasn't the only Bayliner knock FROM a Bayliner owner with a wink at the end?
The only think worse than slamming someone's boat too vigorously is DEFENDING YOUR choice of boats too vigorously .
If you go back to the original post that started this thread it is where the comment was made about not being found dead in a bayliner.

Boats all serve different functions and are largely designed for different functions and different stages in life and different budgets. To me, whatever stage you are in, what ever function you are seeking, and whatever budget is within your reach and all the above combine to make you happy is the right boat to buy. That could be a plethera of brands and a plethera of styles. I definitely have my own personal preferences on looks and lines and quality and desires in my boats, but each I have owned have served a function in my life and my family to get us on the water and met the need we had at the time and the style of boating we were seeking.
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