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Old 04-24-2014, 07:28 PM   #41
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All mine are free. They send me five or six magazines a month. I give most away because the articles don't speak to me.

How to change a fuel filter and how to remove old varnish. Really???

I'm way past those articles and the boats are way over my head. 1 Mil and up.

So just who is that person who buys a multi million yacht and needs to know how to change a fuel filter or scrape off old varnish????

Doesn't make any sense to me.
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:03 PM   #42
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The thread is about what mags people read, not that they are "nuts" if they read a particular mag.Tastes in mags is as individual as people.
Most people spot articles favorably reflecting on an advertiser, and filter the articles accordingly. A mag with some content of the kind does not make it failed or rubbish, it`s each mag on its merits, there may be many other articles, often by totally independent outside contributors, which make the reader experience positive.
Even the classified adverts of numerous service providers which help fund the mag, for marinas, electricians, mechanics, mooring service contractors, surveyors, parts and equipment, boat yards etc, none of whom get any special treatment from the mag, are useful to readers.
Read and enjoy the magazine you choose, commercially sponsored or not, if you get benefit from it.
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:15 PM   #43
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I still believe that WoodenBoat has some pretty decent journalistic integrity in regards to conflict of interests with advertisers. Mainly because it seems that most of the articles are reader written.
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:41 AM   #44
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A mag with some content of the kind does not make it failed or rubbish, it`s each mag on its merits, there may be many other articles, often by totally independent outside contributors, which make the reader experience positive.
Since your posting seems to attempt to slap me, I'll respond to it.

I never said the biased content is failed or rubbish (although I think it is dangerous and disgusting at times). All I said was that the model fails and all you need to do is look at the size of any vertical market magazine today versus that same magazine 10 years ago. Well, that assumes they're still in business today because quite a few have passed away.

If you or anyone else obtains enjoyment from reading a magazine, by all means, read away. If anything, I'm just pointing out why media like this are much better at getting a real, balanced view out.
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:26 AM   #45
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We get a couple of print mags. Yachting, which is pretentious in an awful way. They occasionally have a nice article about somewhere to visit (recently was the Bahamas). Boating is geared toward the boaters with smaller boats. They have a lot of DIY info. But as others have said, the mag from BOAT U.S. is good. We enjoy it the most. Cost of membership is worth it just to get the magazine.
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:01 AM   #46
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I'm sorry if you felt my response was an insult. It wasn't. I'm not even sure what was insulting about it - the disagreement with something you wrote? The statement where I think someone is nuts to think Seaworthy isn't a marketing piece?

If you or anyone else doesn't want to use ActiveCaptain because I "call 'em as I see 'em," then don't use ActiveCaptain. Please, don't. ActiveCaptain isn't about me, my wife, or either of my dogs. It's about the hundreds of thousands of people who contribute their knowledge to it...............
I'm fine with Active Captain. It's Jeff Siegel that I'm not so sure about.

The question here was about what magazines to forum members read. I answered honestly but you launched into a tirade about how dishonest magazines are and went so far as to imply that those who read them are "nuts".

If you choose to not read magazines but get all your information from the Internet that's your choice and it doesn't bother me one bit. It shouldn't bother you that others choose to read print magazines. It's really not your business and it doesn't make magazine readers somehow inferior to you.

You bash magazines because they accept advertising. How is your business supported? How is the term "sponsor" different from the term "advertiser"? As I posted above when checking a marina on Active Captain, I often see a suggestion to try a nearby Active Captain sponsor instead. How is that honest? How is that different from advertising?

I remember some time ago a post about the great loop and I suggested joining the Great Loop Association. That prompted you to post about how bad that organization was and that it was just a money making business.

A good business owner will promote his business by saying how good it is, not by trying to put down the competition. Think about it. And be nice.
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:40 AM   #47
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I'm fine with Active Captain. It's Jeff Siegel that I'm not so sure about.
To really know me is to love me. Give it time...

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You bash magazines because they accept advertising. How is your business supported? How is the term "sponsor" different from the term "advertiser"? As I posted above when checking a marina on Active Captain, I often see a suggestion to try a nearby Active Captain sponsor instead. How is that honest? How is that different from advertising?
Sigh...back to ActiveCaptain.

Yeah, we're a for-profit business. Marinas pay us money and we highlight the ones that do because they allow you to use ActiveCaptain for free and we think you should know who's paying for your use.

The big difference is that no sponsor marina has ever had a negative review removed or anything altered to give a biased view about the facility. Sponsors get no special treatment - they're just allowed to present their information to readers in ways that highlight their status. We also allow them to highlight unusually high discounts that we also have to approve before they are published.

In addition, we're odd in that we don't allow any marina to just pay us to become a sponsor. They have to meet certain quality conditions or be on a demonstrated plan of significant improvement (which we've only allowed twice - both marinas are 5 star ones today). We turn down marinas every week who want to pay us money. Do you think a magazine has ever turned down an ad for any product? How about a guidebook?

If we operated like magazines operated, we'd delete negative statements or only publish the positive ones (like other websites who try to copy us do but miss the whole zen of the internet in the name of "editing").

So if you have no problem with ActiveCaptain, why do you keep using it as an example for my personal beliefs about magazines? ActiveCaptain exists in its form because I felt magazines and guidebooks had the wrong model and weren't providing a valid service to me, a boater. It shouldn't be a surprise that ActiveCaptain's model is significantly different.

And again, this is exactly why there are no other marine company executives, engineers, or others with real industry knowledge on places like this. Why can't the discussion happen without an attempt to slander the products I represent? Why can't the discussion center around the ideas instead?
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:59 AM   #48
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I think the quote was ...

"If you really think that BoatUS pays writers for content, publishes a full magazine 12 times a year, prints it, and mails it for free just so you can have more boating information, you're nuts. "

It really didn't have anything to do with being "nuts" just for reading magazines...just believing the fairytale they are in it for the goodness of their hearts and promoting only the best boating info. I know..I've been approached to write articles about products under the guise of "a better way to do it".

Never seemed like an insult to me...just one of those broadstroke statements we all make at times.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:21 AM   #49
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Power and Motoryacht has Capt Bill Pike who owns a classic 32' Grand Banks. He does alot of articles about maintaining/upgrading it and the cruises he takes. Granted, alot of them are about this or that new product that some advertiser gave him to try out. Still pretty good stuff we can all relate to as fellow trawler owners.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:31 AM   #50
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Jeff:

You're on an anti magazine publisher crusade. The question is do you read any. The answer is either yes or no and, if yes, which ones. You did attack magazines in a rather broad stroke related to their content and advertising practices. That did bring your own site into the discussion as you also accept advertising. Now with you it influences the amount of information, size of the red marker, etc., which is part of your content, but it doesn't influence the reviews. Other sites such as Cruisers Net follow a similar pattern in that they allow good and bad reviews of their advertisers. Seems to me your business model makes sense and is a reasonable balance between content and advertising.

But there are also publishers who balance things. We own a small local magazine but we have someone else running it. Two months ago it gave one of our largest restaurant advertisers a negative review. The content and advertising areas are run completely independently. Fortunately, they were retained as a customer. They asked for and were promised a follow up review in about a year, but no promises on what it would say.

I read magazines and go to websites that are filled with blatant puffing of advertiser's products. But I just treat those articles as more advertising. I'm not fooled by it. When I see a boat on the cover and full ad on page three and another opposite the review of the boat, I grasp the connection. But I also read the review just to see what the boat "claims" to offer. Meanwhile, I find completely unrelated articles that I enjoy.

But the point here isn't how the industry works, it's what we like to read. I grew up reading the newspaper, but only read it online today because I don't like getting the news print all over my hands or having to smell it.

You don't like the ads on television, buy a dvd. Oops, they have ads. Trailers. But I know people who love the trailers.

Guess ultimately I recognize every form of media as for-profit. Even, in their own way, newsletters by charities, as they wouldn't send them out if they didn't hope for donations in return. I also know how to make my own judgments of content vs. advertising.

I don't like the editorials and editorial policies of the newspaper, but I'm not going to stop reading the sports section because of it.

Sometimes we have to separate the wheat from the chaff. Either that or miss out. Yes, I know there are those who do that poorly and are misled. That's why infomercials are such a success.

So, ultimately, do you read any magazines? We read a ton of boating magazines through kindle and otherwise electronically. Just to mention two we read last night. Showboats International and Private Islands. Private Islands is 100% advertising and we have no intention of buying an island. But we love to read about them and even check them out when we're boating near them. And of course there are some boating magazines people say they read for the articles but it's really only for the pictures. Boat porn I've heard it labelled.

Now back to what people read.
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Old 04-25-2014, 05:20 PM   #51
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Advertising drives our economy (in the USA anyway). If I invent and manufacture a new "super widget", the only way I can let potential customers know about it is to advertise it. We also have people with a situation they need help with and they may see an advertisement for a product that will take care of that situation. It works to the benefit of everyone.

Now we have to hope that as potential consumers we will be able to understand what's being advertised and decide for ourselves if our lives would be made better by purchasing the product and if this purchase would be money well spent.

If I watch the news on TV tonight, in less than an hour I will be presented with advertisements for a half dozen different brands of new vehicles, each more beautiful and efficient than the last. We'll, I'm still driving a year 2003 truck and a year 2007 car so I guess I'm pretty good at deciding what I need and what I don't.

If I read a good review on a boat in a magazine, that doesn't make ne want to go and buy it. If I'm in the market for a new boat I might consider it but I'll still do my own evaluation. If I need a bottom paint job and read a good review of brand "X" bottom paint, I'm not going to call the yard and have them use it I'll do some research and select what seems to work best for my conditions.

Advertising helps to pay the cost of producing, printing, and mailing the magazines I enjoy. That's an OK tradeoff with me.
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:23 PM   #52
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First, I think this is a really great discussion because it doesn't happen enough - the challenge of advertising and promotion and how it has changed with all media. I just wish my own personal company could be left out of it. If anyone wants to discuss ActiveCaptain marketing and the reasons we do what we do, please start another thread and I'll discuss it thoroughly. My personal feelings aren't shaped by the products I've built. Instead, I've built the products I have because of my personal feelings. There's an important difference.

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If I watch the news on TV tonight, in less than an hour I will be presented with advertisements for a half dozen different brands of new vehicles, each more beautiful and efficient than the last.
I have nothing against advertising. I love advertising. I went to MBA school (and was asked to leave after 2 years by my councilor - seriously). My wife continued and received her degree. Together, we are marketing junkies. We talk much more about marketing than technology and advertising is a big piece of marketing.

So had you watched the TV news tonight, you would have been met with about 9 minutes of commercials in the 30 minute segment. And when each commercial came on to take over the screen, you knew it was a commercial.

The thing that doesn't happen with TV news is that the editorial programming does not collect advertising money to portray a particular brand in a certain way or slant their news piece to make one company look better than another because they got paid for it. As a population, we wouldn't stand for that - we'd turn off those programs. That's what HSN and the various shopping network channels are for. And I don't think anyone would ever go to HSN to learn about the latest advances in abdominal exercises or the state of the US economy. We all know that we're getting slanted truth on those networks.

Now contrast that with the morphing of most vertical market magazine media today. How do you know what you're reading is true? And I know no one reads a boat review and thinks it's totally real but still, there's subtle manipulation at work by marketing experts thrown in to make sure something about the new XYZ trawler is shown or a particular set of branding words is used. The intent of that is to manipulate us in very unfair ways. And every single one of us is affected by it.

That's why I dislike the current boating magazines. It's why they've fallen from respect and why most of the readers do really use them mostly for bathroom enjoyment. Contrast that with the original PassageMakers of the 1990's. I collected every one of them - organized them - and referred back to them for years. Does anyone do that with the current issues? And I say that after writing a major article myself in 2013 for them (but never again).
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:25 PM   #53
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I must admit I sadly dispensed with my regular Passagemaker subscription about a couple of years ago, because as someone else mentioned, as soon as Bill Parletore who is an avid trawler owner, sold the business, the heart dropped out of it, and it became just another glossy, well-presented boating mag, full of boat tests on vessels most of us can only dream about - i.e. all that is wrong with most of the boat mags available here in Oz - except I do enjoy that free one 'Afloat' Bruce mentioned, and I find something of interest (ironically usually the ads for new stuff), in the Down-under equivalent to your Boat-US one, from Club Marine, our biggest boating industry insurance co.
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Old 04-26-2014, 01:32 PM   #54
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Cruising World, PassageMaker, the Boat US stuff, Practical Sailor, Sport Fishing, and the West Marine Catalog. The "boats in the middle" sizes get a lot less useful articles, now that I am in a whole 30' I find the articles more applicable. What you need to do is get a bigger boat, then the articles will be more interesting...
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