What to look for before a survey

[Hawgwash]

While not entirely surprised, I found it unsettling to read about Al's cleats. Add to that, seacock vs ball valve, leaky windows, rusted tanks etc and I began to wonder about having a really good list of things to look closely at BEFORE paying good money for a surveyor. I never would have thought to check cleat backing on a crawl around look see but it could be an instant deal breaker.

Can you help me come up with a list of critical areas to scout before survey?
Best place to check for spongy decks; window leaks; tank issues, structural, electrical and plumbing tell tales, bla bla.

When do electronics become too old?

 

[caltexflanc]

See if you can pick up a copy of David Pascoe's "Mid Sized Power Boats" , I think he still sells it on his sites. He covers almost all the "self survey" points, as well as things like ergonomics. I found it very valuable, the first 2/3 especially (not so much the last 1/3, which is outdated) as we were evaluating boats and boat designs.

 

[janice142]

Instead, let me tell you what I did before purchase of Seaweed. And I've done similar in eyeballing boats for others.

Side Note: I paid $75 in 2008 for a surveyor to walk the boat. NOT for a survey. Instead, I asked that he take a gander, tell me if there was anything apparent that would make her a no-go, confirm that the photos posted were current and give me an opinion if I should pursue the boat.

Things to look for include:

#1) wiping the bottom of the fuel tank with a damp white rag (is there fuel down there?)

#2) check for house wire (versus marine)
#3) water stains under windows and portlights
#4) fresh paint (covering said stains?)
#5) spongy decks (or teak -- knowing I'm prejudiced against leaky teak decks, and in the south? Well, let's just say I would not opt for teak. Ever.)

I'd look too at storage. Is there adequate for life as you imagine it?
Is there access to the impeller, oil filters and more? If access is horrible, routine maintenance will not have been done. And no, you won't do it either. That equals Expensive repairs and/or replacement.

Count on all electronics being out of date, obsolete, and broken.
Open and close all thru-hulls. If they won't move, that's a bad sign.

If the hoses are weeping, if everything is covered in rust, you're going to find stuff under that crud. All of it will be expensive to fix.

In my opinion of course.

 

[BruceK]

boatpoker has a "101" self survey guide, ask him I`m sure he`ll help. Doubt I`d check the back fixings of a cleat unless there was something about the cleat itself.

 

[Jamup]

Marine Survey 101, here's the link
Marine Survey 101, Do your own marine survey

 

[Hawgwash]

Marine Survey 101, here's the link
Marine Survey 101, Do your own marine survey

Big time bow...thank you sir!

Thanks also to George, Janis and Bruce.
Why is there no happy dance Smiley?

 

[Hawgwash]

Doubt I`d check the back fixings of a cleat unless there was something about the cleat itself.

Or the boat.
I doubt I could look at a Californian now and not at least wonder.
In the local 80s market when everyone with a double garage got into boat building there was a particular production boat that commercial truckers refused to haul because the hulls had a "tendency to fracture" in transport.
They still sold...for a while.

 

[Hawgwash]

boatpoker has a "101" self survey guideQUOTE]
Among other things in his tool box is a moisture meter. I've always wondered if one of those would work with fiberglass.

 

[Bacchus]

DIY Survey Resources

Can you help me come up with a list of critical areas to scout before survey?

Here are a couple of files I found helpful.

I did my own survey when I purchased our current boat... I don't recommend it as a general rule but I do encourage folks to do your own PRE-Survey to avoid paying for a survey when there are obvious show stoppers - and by going through and boat methodically using a checklist you sure learn a lot.

Mine worked out well but it was only a few yrs old and engine / gen had a little over 100 hrs on it.

I have a survey form in MS Word - if interested PM me w/ an email and I can fwd it.

 

[David Rive]

Here is what you need...

Marine Survey 101, Do your own marine survey

This website has been a huge help to me. Good luck.

 

[TDunn]

Like others I made up my own survey form. I split it into a compartment by compartment examination. I basically looked at everything I could in a non-destructive examination. On the boats that made it to that stage I spent 4-6 hours examining the boat. Several boats that I started my self survey on were rejected during the survey. In one case it was because the broker wouldn't leave me to do my examination. I warned him that if he interrupted me again I would walk away and he would not see me again. When he bugged me again, I showed him the check I had for the deposit on my offer, then tore it up while he watched, got in my car and left. That broker lost a sale since the boat was very nice and pretty much exactly what I wanted.

 

[boatpoker]

boatpoker has a "101" self survey guideQUOTE]
Among other things in his tool box is a moisture meter. I've always wondered if one of those would work with fiberglass.

Moisture Meter Mythology

 

[JDCAVE]

boatpoker has a "101" self survey guideQUOTE]
Among other things in his tool box is a moisture meter. I've always wondered if one of those would work with fiberglass.

No. Results are not reliable. But this subject is controversial.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[Hawgwash]

Here are a couple of files I found helpful.
I have a survey form in MS Word - if interested PM me w/ an email and I can fwd it.

Thanks Don.
PM on it's way.

 

[ktdtx]

Here is a long list from a surveyor:

faults, problems, water, clamps, scupper, sea cocks, electrical, bilge pumps, hoses, batteries, corrosion, fuel, tanks, blowers, engines, sanitation, ofors

 

[Hawgwash]

Here is a long list from a surveyor:

faults, problems, water, clamps, scupper, sea cocks, electrical, bilge pumps, hoses, batteries, corrosion, fuel, tanks, blowers, engines, sanitation, ofors

Long is ok, I've got all winter.

Is there a folder or thread for all this stuff?

 

[BruceK]

In case it`s not clear I did not mention, and I know nothing about, moisture meters.
I invented a DIY survey form too, with space to make notes, so I looked at all the areas and could distinguish between boats without pure reliance on memory.

 

[Phyrcooler]

Lot of good reference materials linked. I'm an admitted rookie on board the forum, but did a ton of research and looking before I purchased. And still missed some things and learned some lessons. A couple are -

Take your time, and don't feel rushed, especially if your first look-see makes you think "this could be the one". Like TDunn, I had a sellers broker that rushed me, and sounded like a car salesman that wouldn't shut up. Offered / surveyed... and walked away from that boat due to stuff I should have seen on my own initial exam.

Overall appearance develops a good initial 6th sense. But for me, the best quick assessment is lifting the hatch and taking a gander at the engine room. A lot of tales are told right there in looking at the appearance of the motors, wiring and hoses.

Then start looking in all the hidden crooks and crannies.

My two cents, and worth all of it!

 

[Bacchus]

Is there a folder or thread for all this stuff?

Great Idea - maybe in the Library function - Miscellaneous
Title any / all contributions DIY Survey Resources - ++++?

I'll post mine - everyone else do the same -

 

[TDunn]

Moisture meters have their place. Just remember that the absolute numbers don't mean much. Look for differences between parts of the hull/deck. An area on the deck with higher numbers than the rest of the deck is likely wet. Constant readings means that the area is either uniformly dry or wet, or the meter is dead . I would always combine a meter with impact testing with a small plastic face hammer.

 

[Montenido]

Thanks to all that contributed to this thread. I've bought 3 boats already, and was lucky that I didn't have to walk away from any of them. I'm currently shopping trawlers, and this information will certainly save me time and money.

Cheers, Bill

 

[FF]

"I'm currently shopping trawlers,"

In many cases "trawler" is just the shape of the deck house.

There are lots more motor yachts , on the same basic hull, that may be more refined as many more are built.

 

[janice142]

One thing I noticed in an online advertisement for a boat was that under the fuel tanks were aluminum roasting pans (think Thanksgiving turkey) that were stained. It appeared to me that they were there for a reason -- a leaking tank, or fittings. Something that the owner did not repair, which spoke volumes as to what else might have been put off until later...

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. H. Mr. Phyr' hit the nail on the head IMO regarding first looking in the engine space(s). Out of sight, out of mind for a goodly majority of owners. Attention paid to details and maintenance in the ER says it all for me. I've seen listings for vessels that were quite attractive BUT that one ER shot where oily rags and over sprayed cooling hoses, buckets of "stuff?" and the gawd awful nuclear holocaust of "expert" wiring told me more than all the the lace doilies on the saloon side tables and granite counter tops.

 

[Ski in NC]

Second RTF on the engine room. Do a walk around on/in the boat and see if you like it. That takes five minutes. Then go in engine room. If they are a rusted nasty mess, walk. If you can't touch every critical part of each engine, walk. So many engine rooms have poor access that good maintenance and repairs are impossible. Walk from those.

If it passes the above quick checks, time to go into detailed inspections.

Nasty engines paid for construction of my boat. You don't want to fund people like me.

And if boat is out of town, surveyors and mechanics often are glad to do a "quick check" for modest fee to see if travel and survey are worth it. I've done lots of those.

 

[ktdtx]

I did that to a 1986 boat-the walk around looked good.
Got into the engine room and, like the old cowboy movies...

It was CLEAN...TOO clean! Cleaner than the rest of the boat.
Everything had been cleaned, painted in the not too distant past and it leaves me wondering what was being covered up.

 

[Ski in NC]

If the engines look freshly painted, go crawl to the outboard side. Most painters don't bother getting the hard to access areas.

If I am hired to inspect some engines, if I see fresh paint, my scrutiny knob gets turned up a few notches.

A well maintained engine does not need to be painted in it's whole service life. A rotten mess looks bad. Paint might make it look better, but paint does not fix rot.

Fresh paint usually means someone is covering up rot or neglect. And they usually do a crappy job, especially areas hard to access.

Writing up one right now. Nice paint in easy to see areas, in the shadows, rot.

 

[Hawgwash]

Second RTF on the engine room. Do a walk around on/in the boat and see if you like it. That takes five minutes. Then go in engine room.

I went to a GB rendezvous yesterday and saw some that would also get a raised eyebrow and red flag based on neglected brightwork. What else might be suffering from lack of attention or pride?

The good news is, I saw some fantastic examples of very well looked after boats. My favorite being an '83, 42 aft cabin. So nice to see a boat that defies its age. Other than some electronic upgrades it was pretty stock but so well cared for.

 

[Marin]

I would not judge a boat's condition based on the brightwork. Keeping brightwork up takes a lot of time and effort to get it good to begin with, and then an annual or biannual effort to keep it good. Some owners, like us right now, simply don't have the time to do the job right and they don't want to pay to have someone else do it at a $100 an hour yard rate. So they let it go or keep it the wood covered to minimize the deterioration, as we do, until the time comes when they have the time to do a proper job.

But this does not automatically mean that the rest of the boat is neglected. Our boat certainly isn't.

 

[Hawgwash]

Some owners, like us right now, simply don't have the time to do the job right and they don't want to pay to have someone else do it at a $100 an hour yard rate. So they let it go...until the time comes when they have the time to do a proper job.But this does not automatically mean that the rest of the boat is neglected. Our boat certainly isn't.

I'm not saying it automatically states neglect any more than external spit and polish equals a perfectly maintained vessel. In the context of this thread, I'm just pointing out another area that MAY raise a concern. What I saw on one boat; varnish over un-sanded abraded railings, appeared to be the work of a grandson and I wondered how much Rescue Tape I might discover in other places that also required more time to do the job right.