What kind of boat???

[Fighterpilot]

Been searching for a boat since last August. Beginning to narrow the search. The 34 LRC and the 38 LRC are now in* the list but may not be able to afford them and haven't had a*chance to look at one yet.

My needs are; two full time sleeping areas, gen.,*a/c, *upper and lower helm, salon, head, shower, galley, would like dinette--but may not get it, twin diesel, 16-18 know cruise loaded for fishing, and here is the tough one--$40,000 budget. We want to explore the bays and waterways with family for overnight "camping" and venture out into the Gulf off Pensacola for some snapper fishing now and then. 30 miles off shore the maximum for the most part.

A 34 LRC with the twin 3208 would seem to be close, at least on paper. I found a Perkins with 200 HP listed that seemed to indicate a cruising speed of 16 but don't know if that is mph or kts. Asking price was beyond budget but this would seem to indicate a 34 LRC might work for me. The 210HP 3208 indicted a cruising speed of 18 mph. Are these pretty solid numbers for this model boat? What is your engine of choice between these two mentioned engines? Haven't seen any other options in that HP range.

Been looking at the 38 foot Bayliners but 175 HP Hinos marginal on power for getting up on plane loaded for fishing and overnight. It holds more fuel and water which is also a factor in that load calculation. Great Cabin configuration howerver.

Your thoughts, opinions welcomed. Thanks

*


-- Edited by Fighterpilot on Sunday 17th of April 2011 09:34:29 AM

 

[coyote454]

Raymond,

There are several considerations in buying a boat; it really depends on how firm you are in what you're looking for. You've pretty much eliminated trawler type boats with the speed you require. However, if 10mph would suit you, there are many trawler types out there, double berths, normally two heads, dinettes and so forth that are in your budget.

When you get up in the HP range for a diesel, you normally sacrifice longevity and fuel economy. *My rule of thumb is this: divide the horsepower by the cubic inch of the diesel. If the result is below "1", you're pretty safe. *If the result is higher than "1", longevity is sacrificed. You'll see this when you look at turbocharged or supercharged engines. They don't last nearly as long as those naturally asperated.

If this isn't important to you maybe something like*http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1980/Silverton-Diesel-Custom-Hardtop---PRICE-REDUCED-1879978/Eliot/ME/United-States*or*http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/Silverton--1597796/No.-Kingstown/RI/United-States*would suit you.

Check*http://www.yachtworld.com/*and spend some time lookings at different models. *Then walk the docks. *You'll learn lots from talking to people who have boats.*

Personally I'd want a slow trawler for going 30 miles offshore. There are also lots of these boats around, within your budget.*

 

[Fighterpilot]

Thanks for your reply. I didn't do a very good job of my off shore situation. We have to run 24 miles to the pass and than off shore 25-30 miles just to get to the good fishing areas, hence my need for some kind of speed. I have resigned my sell to 16 to 18 knots as a minimum since the 22 knot boats that meet all my other requirements are outside of my budget. I wouldn't have any problem with a LRC that had the 300HP cummins it it, but that is outside the budget as well. I don't mind paying for fuel as long as it is diesel. With ethanol etc. will never go back to gas. The two boat links in your reply don't have lower helms and anything less than 16 knots is too slow. Being able to pilot from the lower helm in A/C comfort with the family around is important. Been looking at the Bayliner 38xx with the Hino 175, suppose to do 15-16 knots but have sea trialed two and couldn't even get them up on plane. Probably overpropped but sitll it appears to me they are marginally underpowered for cruising at anything other than displacement configuration. The later models with the bigger engines are out of the budget. For the right boat could probably go up to 45-50K

The 34 LRC with the 200 perkins or the 3208 Cat would seem to meet our requirements, at least on paper. If they won't cruise at the stated 16-18 knots than they are out of the picture as well. The older Hatteras, Chris Craft, Trojan, Pacemakcr all had the possibility of a lower helm but they came up short in one or two other areas in most cases. Sometimes it was the engine--no detroits/GM, Volvos, or only one sleeping area, or lower helm was in the cockpit, or cored bottom, or none available in my budget area.

I am a member of the forums for all of these boats and have tried to glean all the information I can from the members, just as I am doing here. I thank you for your help and look forward to some others adding their thoughts.

 

[FlyWright]

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forum.spark?aBID=115492&topicID=16976520&p=3

There's a boat test report in this link that shows a 34 Californian LRC with 200 hp turbo Perkins WOT at 23 Kts, cruise at 18-19 Kts. Performance curves and a table are included in the article.

 

[Fighterpilot]

Interesting reports. Note the 3208 just a little slower, probably because of the extra weight. Thanks for the link.

 

[timjet]

I looked at several 38 Bayliners a year and a half ago and I would think that with a little time and persuasion you could get a mid to late 80's in your price range. Check out the bayliners owners forum for additional information.
I couldn't convince my wife to overlook the cheap monkey fur interior.
All in all though a lot of boat for the money.

 

[FF]

I would look at some of the boats from the great lakes.

Their twin gas engines are far lighter so will allow a higher cruise speed .

Fuel burn will be a bit higher on the plane , but the lower maint costs should make up for that,

Unless you are going commercial and will be running 400-500 hours a year on the plane.

 

[Fighterpilot]

I have considered the gas, but my last boat was gas, outboards, and the hassle over ethanol fuel cured me of gas. My previous two boats were diesel so I have a reference point on diesels as well. I have my own fueling tank and can buy off road diesel at the neighborhood service station and do my own fueling. The nearest fuel dock is 24 miles away so being able to do my own is a big advantage. I don't really like to haul gasoline however and to get to our fishing grounds will have to run 3 hours each way to get there and back on plane. I have thought about Great Lakes boats for their fresh water history. Even bought Quimbys 2010 book for reference as to how do I get them back down to the Gulf around Mobile.

Today looking at a Californian 35 Convertible with the twin 3208s, built by wellcraft using the Californian MY hull for two years. It too is suppose to reach 20 knots and cruise at 17knots, but the owner said he never saw much above 12 knots. I don't know how to reconcile that and have posted to a number of forums looking for an answer.

Appreciate the input, however, one never knows how things will turn out.

 

[FF]

I would pay ($25) to go on Boatdiesel and plug in the weight / HP numbers in there performance computer, perhaps 150Hp each for the 3208's and the boat weight as best you can .

3208 were never powerful and boats get heavier over time. So 20 K might be a advert story.

Perhaps simply finding a sports fish would be a better option.

The hull at least would be optimized to far rougher waters , at speed (deeper V) and probably will have trolling valves.

All your 20K will be at least 20GPH fuel flow if the boat is perfect.

 

[Fighterpilot]

I am a member at boatdiesel.com and their calculator says 17knots at 16 gal/hour and I increased displacment to 22,000 lbs from the powerboat guide of 18000 lbs. for that calculation, hence my quandry and my questions. Set rpm at 2400, max rated 2800 for the 210HP rating so don't know what the owner is doing.

Need to sleep 5-6, upper and lower helm, A/C, salon, etc, cruise 16-17 knots. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Fighterpilot]

Looking at my requirements in the first post tends to narrow the field considerably. I went thru the Parker and McKnew Powerboat guide, brokers edition, 1995 in an attempt to find boats that worked. The lower helm with a/c is a tough one. Have to actually be able to run from the lower helm. Don't worry about logs in water but do worry about other boats. Could settle for one full time sleeping area as long as dinette and sofa available to sleep some more. I found Bayliners, Californians, Chris Craft, Egg Harbor, Hatteras, Henriques, Jefferson, Pacemaker, Sea Ray, Tiara, Tolly Craft, and Trojan as possibles. May have missed one but have been searching since August. Been to Galveston, St Augustine, Tarpon Springs, Foley, Al, Pensacola, Fl, Orange Beach to look at boats. Bayliner 38xx seemed a good fit but after sea trialing two with the 175 Hinos, they are under powered. Can't afford the ones with the Cummins in them. May not be able to really run from lower helm on Hatteras. Trojans had cored hull which I am not really pleased with. One other limiter is location--cost at least $7500 to bring a bayliner from NY,NJ area over the road. Even from east coast of Florida in Jax. area looking at $3000 to bring it into the Gulf on its bottom. Did search on Yachtworld for Tiara just now. Brought up one. It wss open, not the convertible. Express boats won't work either. No salon for the family to hang around in. Really only comfortable with Cummins, no V8 Cummins, 3208 cats, and Detroit 671 (natural). I have had two boats with Yanmars, would consider them I guess. Maybe all of this and a budget of $50,000 won't work. I'm going to keep looking. The one tonight could be a winner if I can resolve the cruise speed situation. Thanks for you input.

 

[Per]

You are in Florida?
one thing i feel the californian has as a huge advantage over many of the boats you are listing is the walk around decks with safety rails all the way around, safer for kids (and drunk fishermen) and gives more rail space for fishing, no just the cockpit.
i dont have a/c in mine since we are in so california and it rarely gets so hot that opening the doors/windows cant cool you down.
but there is plenty room in the ER to add A/C.
yes you can drive it fully from lower helm, no problem (i did it yesterday).
mine is the 38' LRC with 3208 TA 260 hp powertrain, cruising at 15 - 18 KTS.
one of my neighbors has the 3208s TA 350 hp on same boat and he goes 25 KTS easy.

 

[markpierce]

Per wrote:
You are in Florida?
one thing i feel the californian has as a huge advantage over many of the boats you are listing is the walk around decks with safety rails all the way around, safer for kids (and drunk fishermen) and gives more rail space for fishing, no just the cockpit.

*Walk-around decks with*high/sturdy safety rails was one of the criteria for selecting my boat, and I don't even intend to fish.

*

 

[Fighterpilot]

yes we are in Florida. Near Pensacola, over in the panhandle. Home to the oil spill etc. Got rid of my boats last year but things looking up so my son-in-law and I decided to give it another try. This time not just a fishing boat but one for the family, kids, grandkids and in my case great grandkids. We had been looking at Bayliners, but gave up on those and after seeing the Californian LRC knew that was the type of boat for us, but needed one with the 210HP of the Cat or 200 of the Perkins. Looked at two so far but they were pretty ratty. Nearby broker said he had a Californian Convertible so that is where we are now. Will extend the bow rail aft some and probably put in a hand rail beneath the windows for the little ones to hang on, but other wise like it better than the 34LRC since more room in salon. The 38LRC would be a strong consideration if we could find one in the lower SE USA at a half-way decent price. Don't mind the extra fuel cost to ensure when headed to the fishing area it wouldn't take all day.

 

[Moonstruck]

Fighterpilot wrote:
yes we are in Florida. Near Pensacola, over in the panhandle. Home to the oil spill etc. Got rid of my boats last year but things looking up so my son-in-law and I decided to give it another try. This time not just a fishing boat but one for the family, kids, grandkids and in my case great grandkids. We had been looking at Bayliners, but gave up on those and after seeing the Californian LRC knew that was the type of boat for us, but needed one with the 210HP of the Cat or 200 of the Perkins. Looked at two so far but they were pretty ratty. Nearby broker said he had a Californian Convertible so that is where we are now. Will extend the bow rail aft some and probably put in a hand rail beneath the windows for the little ones to hang on, but other wise like it better than the 34LRC since more room in salon. The 38LRC would be a strong consideration if we could find one in the lower SE USA at a half-way decent price. Don't mind the extra fuel cost to ensure when headed to the fishing area it wouldn't take all day.

*I assume that you are using Pensacola Pass or Perdido Pass.* I also assume you fish Desota Canyon.* The elbow, nipple, tuna hill, or 700' hole?* Kept a boat at Orange Beach for 10 years.

*

 

[Fighterpilot]

Pensacola Pass and Yes.

 

[Moonstruck]

Fighterpilot wrote:
Pensacola Pass and Yes.

*A little speed with help when riding a wave in the pass against an ebbing tide.* Love that anchorage just around the corner on the west side*behind the spoil bank.

*

 

[FF]

Set rpm at 2400, max rated 2800 for the 210HP rating so don't know what the owner is doing.


He is doing what most CAT owners do , live with perhaps 150 - 160hp.

Work the numbers from his observed performance , instead of Cat's dream sheet.

 

[Fighterpilot]

Based upon my conversation and my 77 year old recolection the boat never got plane, and it certainly isn't going to get up at 2400 rpm, but it might stay there. It should reach 2800rpm at wot if proped correctly, than according to the paper work boat should get up and go as fast as 20 kts, than throttle back to 2400 and see where it is. This is from a calculator on boatdiesel.com that one feeds the numbers it to and it will spit out some answers. Instead of the 18,000 lbs, which is probably empty weight I used 22,000 lbs. with an average planing hull at 2400 rpm for a 210hp engine rated at 2800rpm. Maybe the convertible isn't an average planing hull but if the 34LRC with its hull, and the 210 cats can make 16knots at the same out the door weight than I would think the convertible could as well. I made offer and if accepted will sea trial, probably next week since can't line up a surveyor this week.

Thanks for the observation.

 

[Moonstruck]

The 3208 in my Blackfin is propped to turn 2800 with a clean bottom and loaded properly.* It will cruise at 2400 under those conditions.* What ever the condition of the boat, run it up then back off 400 rpm.* That could be less than 2400.* At high idle it is governed at 3200.