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Old 11-25-2013, 11:02 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Great Laker View Post
I have little experience running high speeds, however, I did run once in 2-3 ft chop above 12 mph where there was some bow rise, some spray, but the boat had responsive steering and the bottom did not slam into oncoming waves.
I have always been curious about the engine choice in that boat. For some, yes. Would you have lost anything by having a displacement only capable engine? Any thoughts on that?
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:22 PM   #202
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Harbor950,
"Displacement" is 100% a function of the hull and has nothing to do w the engine. There would not be any point in having an engine only capable of propelling the boat at displacement speeds. With that amount of power a displacement hull would be called for w any degree of common sense. And that engine would (of course) be less power than the engine mentioned above.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:18 AM   #203
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Harbor950,
"Displacement" is 100% a function of the hull and has nothing to do w the engine. There would not be any point in having an engine only capable of propelling the boat at displacement speeds. With that amount of power a displacement hull would be called for w any degree of common sense. And that engine would (of course) be less power than the engine mentioned above.
I am aware of the difference in hull design between displacement and semi-planing hulls, but did not express my question well. Mark Pierce has said that he thinks his hull is probably designed as a planing hull and others are also using semi-displacement and planing hulls at displacement speeds only. They may in your opinion not have "any degree of common sense", but my question has to do with someone who has said he has used the boat mostly in displacement mode and how much would he have given up to have done without the capability of the higher speeds.

Production boats are what they are and it isn't practical for all of us to build a one off. I am wondering if what I am describing would have been a reasonable compromise in some cases, specifically in Great Laker's experience. I think I get it without the need for your condescension.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:37 AM   #204
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:02 AM   #205
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I am aware of the difference in hull design between displacement and semi-planing hulls, but did not express my question well. Mark Pierce has said that he thinks his hull is probably designed as a planing hull
Did I?? My heavy boat isn't capable of exceeding hull speed, and the hull is definitely not designed for planing.

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Old 11-26-2013, 01:16 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Did I?? My heavy boat isn't capable of exceeding hull speed, and the hull is definitely not designed for planing.
Sorry about that. I can picture the post, but I cannot find it. Probably because it doesn't exist. I must be thinking of someone else who made that comment with a photo of his boat.
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:53 AM   #207
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Peter, you mean your helm isn't on the port side? If I'm not mistaken, I think Bruce's is.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:36 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by harbor950 View Post
I have always been curious about the engine choice in that boat. For some, yes. Would you have lost anything by having a displacement only capable engine? Any thoughts on that?
I fully understand your question, and ask myself that on occasion.

We have gone over 5,800 miles on the Great Loop over the last year encountering a vast array of conditions. I will say that this entire trip could have been done with much lower power than the Cummins 380 turbo. Having said that, there were a number of situations where I was more confident and perhaps safer because of it.

We cruised in some uncertain weather windows knowing we could speed up if necessary to reduce risk. We also found ourselves in narrow ocean inlets and also in windy cross current marina fairways where the extra power kept us out of trouble. And of course there were a couple of times where we sped up to arrive at a lock opening or bridge sooner.

The larger engine was not the reason I bought the America Tug. I bought it because I liked the size, layout and especially the quality of materials, equipment and construction. I bought it because it had low draft, low bridge clearance, pilot house doors for ease of docking and anchoring, a galley up, a walkaround queen, a fully enclosed shower, etc. I bought it because I thought it was the perfect boat to do the Great Loop. And importantly, I bought it because my wife liked it.

This engine is just what the manufacturer puts in this boat, so I get the advantages/disadvantages of that decision. It was not even on my list of "must haves". Would I buy a SD hulled boat with an "high performance" engine again? Yes. But I wouldn't let the lack of it keep me from buying the boat I overall liked best.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:25 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Great Laker View Post
I fully understand your question, and ask myself that on occasion.

We have gone over 5,800 miles on the Great Loop over the last year encountering a vast array of conditions. I will say that this entire trip could have been done with much lower power than the Cummins 380 turbo. Having said that, there were a number of situations where I was more confident and perhaps safer because of it.

We cruised in some uncertain weather windows knowing we could speed up if necessary to reduce risk. We also found ourselves in narrow ocean inlets and also in windy cross current marina fairways where the extra power kept us out of trouble. And of course there were a couple of times where we sped up to arrive at a lock opening or bridge sooner.

The larger engine was not the reason I bought the America Tug. I bought it because I liked the size, layout and especially the quality of materials, equipment and construction. I bought it because it had low draft, low bridge clearance, pilot house doors for ease of docking and anchoring, a galley up, a walkaround queen, a fully enclosed shower, etc. I bought it because I thought it was the perfect boat to do the Great Loop. And importantly, I bought it because my wife liked it.

This engine is just what the manufacturer puts in this boat, so I get the advantages/disadvantages of that decision. It was not even on my list of "must haves". Would I buy a SD hulled boat with an "high performance" engine again? Yes. But I wouldn't let the lack of it keep me from buying the boat I overall liked best.
Very well put!

And, your sentence portion I bolded is much of what life for we luven couples is really all about! After all is said ní done... we dudes still be the Hunters/Gatherers! Although, now we often hunt and gather toys that please Our Admiral! - lol
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:07 AM   #210
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(Hint: do not use dog for scale...use daughters head in saloon window instead!)
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:46 AM   #211
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Thanks, Great Laker. I knew from your other posts that you had a range of experience with the boat and that was exactly the discussion I wanted to hear.

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Old 11-26-2013, 11:06 AM   #212
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(Hint: do not use dog for scale...use daughters head in saloon window instead!)
That is one large hound. Looking at the boot stripe he's lowered the aft end of the boat considerably with his weight.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:14 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Did I?? My heavy boat isn't capable of exceeding hull speed, and the hull is definitely not designed for planing.

....and a few other pics of her bottom
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=59010&postcount=7

Now I have a question? Is this hull shape that much different than this American Tug shape??
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:30 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Great Laker View Post
We have gone over 5,800 miles on the Great Loop over the last year encountering a vast array of conditions.
So you have effectively 'lived onboard' for a considerable period of time?

Quote:
I bought it because it had ..... a galley up, a walkaround queen, a fully enclosed shower, etc. I bought it because I thought it was the perfect boat to do the Great Loop. And importantly, I bought it because my wife liked it.
Have to agree with all of those reasoning, BUT I do have one question about the galley arrangement? I believe I would prefer to have the galley in a U-shape, and slightly dissociated from the main saloon....would you??
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:48 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
....and a few other pics of her bottom
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=59010&postcount=7

Now I have a question? Is this hull shape that much different than this American Tug shape??

American Tug designers would say the AT hull design is night and day different than Mark's. Especially in its ability to plane easily.

The marvel of the ATs and NTs is the design and marketing genius of Lynn Senour and the rest of the design team to convince us they are trawlers, when in reality they are wolves in sheep's clothing. The public loves them and their resale prices so indicate.
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:44 PM   #216
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So you have effectively 'lived onboard' for a considerable period of time?

Have to agree with all of those reasoning, BUT I do have one question about the galley arrangement? I believe I would prefer to have the galley in a U-shape, and slightly dissociated from the main saloon....would you??
------------------------------------------

On the Great Loop (still to be completed) we have lived aboard 265 days so far. We took everything we needed, including 2 folding bikes in the engine room, and still had several storage areas unfilled.

As far as the galley goes, sure I would like a U-shape with bar stool counter, and even a second state room, but you can't get either in this size boat. You have to go to the AT 41 for these features which is a much more expensive boat, and is 7 ft longer and 2 ft 7 in wider, has 1 ft 5 in more draft.

Also, if you compare the galleys in these two models the AT 34 comes out very well. It is a U-shape (but without bar stool counter), has the same twin stainless sinks, stove/oven and microwave and only a slightly smaller refrigerator. Yet the AT 34 has more open counter length and more storage. Note that in the AT 34 floor plan below, the area starboard of the refrigerator, also colored white, is also chest high kitchen storage.

My wife loves the galley for its space and views out the large windows, and cooked the same kinds of healthy meals we are used to eating at home.
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:42 PM   #217
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That is one large hound. Looking at the boot stripe he's lowered the aft end of the boat considerably with his weight.
He's pretty big but he aint that heavy!

It was early in our trip with all tanks full, including the extra 40 gallon fuel tank the PO put in, so Badger was sitting pretty arse heavy.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:30 PM   #218
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[QUOTE=Great Laker;194691]------------------------------------------

AT 34 floor plan...

My wife loves the galley for its space and views out the large windows, and cooked the same kinds of healthy meals we are used to eating at home. [/QUOTE]

Larry - You have real nice 34'er

Ditto here, regarding... My Admiral, and most apparently yours too, feel good about up-galley and therefore cooks us great, healthy meals.

My gal feels she is trenched in the gallows (i.e. being a galley slave! lol) when down-galley is the layout. But, she feels great being with company and looking out big windows with galley-up! I understand completely!!

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Old 11-27-2013, 01:46 AM   #219
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Re steering position. Most Australian built boats were built with port side steering.
But with the influx of foreign built /American designed,inspired boats in the country these days it is not very obvious any more.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:31 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Laker View Post
.....

As far as the galley goes, sure I would like a U-shape with bar stool counter, and even a second state room, but you can't get either in this size boat. You have to go to the AT 41 for these features which is a much more expensive boat, and is 7 ft longer and 2 ft 7 in wider, has 1 ft 5 in more draft.

Also, if you compare the galleys in these two models the AT 34 comes out very well. It is a U-shape (but without bar stool counter), has the same twin stainless sinks, stove/oven and microwave and only a slightly smaller refrigerator. Yet the AT 34 has more open counter length and more storage. Note that in the AT 34 floor plan below, the area starboard of the refrigerator, also colored white, is also chest high kitchen storage.

My wife loves the galley for its space and views out the large windows, and cooked the same kinds of healthy meals we are used to eating at home.
I assume this AT 395 is the 41 footer you are referring to?. and I thought the newer 34 footer was referred to as the AT 365?? So is she really 7' feet longer or about 5' longer?

In either case I really am having trouble understanding how this little bit of difference in hull length can have such a BIG effect of the pricing?? Both of these vessels require a very similar equipment fit-out in the theme of things. and an old axiom is that the hull structure of a vessel probably accounts for no more than 20% of the cost of building a vessel.

Here is the layout of that 395 model,...not that much different than the 365?. I think they even have the same beam?
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