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Old 06-18-2014, 10:08 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by bayview View Post
IMO carrying new spares such as pumps and belts is a mistake.

Spares should be installed to see if they fit and work and the removed part kept as the spare. That way you know for certain that the spare fits when it is needed far from home.

Installing the part also insures that you have the necessary tools and knowledge to replace the part.
I have to disagree with every part of this - except the point about having necessary tools and knowledge!

Many spares come with single-use installation bits like crush-washers and gaskets. Using them up just for the sake of "testing" them is clearly counter-productive, and then you have the issue of whether the (often hard to source) installation bit is exactly the right size.

But what I most love about spares is what they can tell me about the installed part. How many times have you gotten all the bolts / screws off of something and it still won't separate? If you have the spare - evening a NON-WORKING spare! - you can find out if there's some hidden fastener you're missing - or whether it really is time to give the thing a whack to free it. The spare also lets you stage ahead of time. How much is that starter going to weigh when I get it off? Damn, the replacement is 35 pounds - better get something ready to set it on and get in position to be able to take that much weight in hand.

And I'm also against disassembling and assembling things unnecessarily. Your boat isn't a prop in Bob Smith's "Diesel 101" class - if you drop something (perhaps even inside the engine!) you might end up with an even bigger problem. Many years back I installed a rebuilt Mercedes diesel engine in my car that failed at highway speed - it turns out that some extra gasket sealer had plugged an oil passage (fortunately it was the color used by the professional engine rebuilder, not the color of the partially-used tube that I used that was still in the trunk - I got a replacement engine without argument).

Every time you put a tool to something you run a risk (from negligible to appreciable) of rounding off / stripping / breaking / losing that or a related thing - and stripping / breaking / losing / mis-threading / mis-aligning on re-installation. And then there's the question of whether you are really going to test the new part under all the conditions that you know the take-out operated - extended idle, cold start at sub-freezing temperature, running at WOT.

You can adopt the maintenance regimen you are most comfortable with. Myself, I strongly prefer to not muck with things that don't need it.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:30 AM   #22
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Oh Oh, are we about to morph into a single verse twin debate?
I was actually just taking the replacement suggestion to the extreme as I do have a spare, uninstalled engine and transmission for the boat (which does happen to be a twin).
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:08 AM   #23
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An equally valid opposite point is that bolts subject to rusting and rounding should be addressed sooner rather than later and a little anti seize wouldn't hurt either.

I guess it is a matter of degree. Unless I plan on cruising the western Caribbean I wont be carrying an IP, perhaps not even then. I don't plan on swapping transmissions either but not being able to change a belt or lift pump when away from your home marina is a problem. Every engine has its often changed parts and those should be familiar to the owner. And being absolutely certain the parts will fit is important.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:27 AM   #24
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We carried lots of spares on our sailboat when we were cruising. As many have pointed out, finding parts outside the U.S. is an adventure that grows old quick. Now that we are in the delta and plan on coastal cruising within range of vessel assist we need a lot fewer spare parts. We do keep a spare radio.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:38 AM   #25
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For crushing washers in a pinch I roughed up both sides of the old washer in circles with sandpaper and it worked. Probably not perfect but it worked.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:01 PM   #26
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If we are talking "get home" ..."get to the next decent repair facility" remedies...that's a whole different matter than "spares".

Duct tape for lots of failures, "o" rings for crush washers, tie wraps...etc..etc can all get you going again...but not really the concept of a permanent fix with a proper spare.

I understand the concept of fitting new and saving old...but only for a few things that I might be nervous of it's origin. The remedy for that is only buy what you know will work.

Certainly an "old" rebuilt is no worry and you probably know what it took to swap it.

Another methodology is get rig of hard to find parts and old "system" engineering. Like the lift pump on a Lehman. Why not just rig a generic electric pump and have a spare and set yourself up for emergency gravity feed to boot. By removing that pump and plating it off also removes the fuel leaking into the crankcase problem.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:32 PM   #27
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I visited Richard Rodriguez who is in the middle of a delivery from SoCal to the PNW on a 70 ft trawler. He stopped here in santa cruz to wait out some weather. During my visit, I noticed a case of spare fuel filters on board. Seemed like a good idea to me. And he has decades more experience than I do.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:53 PM   #28
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Extra filters always a good idea...I would almost consider them consumables vs spares depending on what system and location...

Diesels use a bit of oil when running...therefore some on board goes without question, especially on long trips when sooner of later a weep or two is adding to the consumption till you get everything tightened back up correctly.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:13 PM   #29
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We recently purchased a Defever 44. On the third day out bringing her home to Annapolis from Florida, late in the day with a heavy wind blowing and still several hours from our destination, a fuel injection line cracked which, of course, was spraying fuel all over the place. We shut done the port engine and tried anchoring in an anchorage recommended by the marina to which we were headed. Lousy anchor wouldn't hold in the high winds blowing against our very high windage vessel (lots of canvas and isinglass). We were forced to up anchor and headed to a darkened face dock we spied about a mile away and, with great difficulty in the wind and a very heavy current, we finally were able to tie up safely.

Now here's the significance. The vessel we bought had on board spares for lots of components including a full set of injector lines for the Lehman 120's. We put up for the night and changed out the injector line the next morning and were on our way. My point is, that is, responding to the original statement, I don't think anyone would advocate installing new injector lines just to see if they fit. Yes, if I were replacing all of the lines I would keep the old lines as backups. But, I was sure glad those lines were on board. If we had been in the middle of nowhere, say the winding channels of the Georgia ICW, I sure wouldn't have liked to have been forced to motor many miles on one engine to the next marina to effect repairs. Just one boater's experience.

As to the spares on board when we bought the boat, I mentioned the boat came with lots of spares. Truth to tell, that was an understatement. Just last week I opened an obscure compartment and discovered five, yes five, brand new, unused oil coolers, plus a new main engine heat exchanger. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to value? At least $1,500, I'd say. We were told that the prior two owners were fanatics on maintenance, our good fortune.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinajack View Post
We recently purchased a Defever 44. On the third day out bringing her home to Annapolis from Florida, late in the day with a heavy wind blowing and still several hours from our destination, a fuel injection line cracked which, of course, was spraying fuel all over the place. We shut done the port engine and tried anchoring in an anchorage recommended by the marina to which we were headed. Lousy anchor wouldn't hold in the high winds blowing against our very high windage vessel (lots of canvas and isinglass). We were forced to up anchor and headed to a darkened face dock we spied about a mile away and, with great difficulty in the wind and a very heavy current, we finally were able to tie up safely.

Now here's the significance. The vessel we bought had on board spares for lots of components including a full set of injector lines for the Lehman 120's. We put up for the night and changed out the injector line the next morning and were on our way. My point is, that is, responding to the original statement, I don't think anyone would advocate installing new injector lines just to see if they fit. Yes, if I were replacing all of the lines I would keep the old lines as backups. But, I was sure glad those lines were on board. If we had been in the middle of nowhere, say the winding channels of the Georgia ICW, I sure wouldn't have liked to have been forced to motor many miles on one engine to the next marina to effect repairs. Just one boater's experience.

As to the spares on board when we bought the boat, I mentioned the boat came with lots of spares. Truth to tell, that was an understatement. Just last week I opened an obscure compartment and discovered five, yes five, brand new, unused oil coolers, plus a new main engine heat exchanger. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to value? At least $1,500, I'd say. We were told that the prior two owners were fanatics on maintenance, our good fortune.
Your injector line story is a good one though that makes a point here.

I had one start leaking too out of Oriental on the way to Morehead City, NC. Really crappy, windy day with thunderstorms and didn't want to stop and anchor in a narrow part of the ICW....found the leak and turned it into a drip rather than spray by wrapping it. Limped the rest of the way to Morehead City.

I knew I had spare lines onboard from the PO...they were wrapped in bubble wrap and stored with spare hoses and belts in the bilge.
When I unwrapped them...the top 3 (the ones you could see) were in decent shape with just a little rust...the bottom 3 were really rough and I would be hesitant to use one....but I was lucky and the one I needed was good enough...and has been for 2 trips to FL and back.

When I buy a new set...I'll probably not even keep a set of spares until I go out of the Atlantic ICW. Too easy to order and or get a temp or even permanent made up by a decent shop.

When I hit the Bahamas and further (not too much further though with this boat)...I may carry a set of spares or just one generic flexible line if possible. Even a rigid line and bend it to need (again I have to investigate if a couple inches either way makes a diff).

So spares are only as good as you take care of them and even with something like injector lines, the original was faulty (less than 4 years old)...so the spares could have a similar flaw.

Messing around with them too much could easily put a stress crack in them so unwrapping them and putting them on once is enough for me...even though they shouldn't have an issue if handles within reason.
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Old 06-22-2014, 11:06 AM   #31
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I have to disagree with every part of this - except the point about having necessary tools and knowledge!

Many spares come with single-use installation bits like crush-washers and gaskets. Using them up just for the sake of "testing" them is clearly counter-productive, and then you have the issue of whether the (often hard to source) installation bit is exactly the right size.

But what I most love about spares is what they can tell me about the installed part. How many times have you gotten all the bolts / screws off of something and it still won't separate? If you have the spare - evening a NON-WORKING spare! - you can find out if there's some hidden fastener you're missing - or whether it really is time to give the thing a whack to free it. The spare also lets you stage ahead of time. How much is that starter going to weigh when I get it off? Damn, the replacement is 35 pounds - better get something ready to set it on and get in position to be able to take that much weight in hand.

And I'm also against disassembling and assembling things unnecessarily. Your boat isn't a prop in Bob Smith's "Diesel 101" class - if you drop something (perhaps even inside the engine!) you might end up with an even bigger problem. Many years back I installed a rebuilt Mercedes diesel engine in my car that failed at highway speed - it turns out that some extra gasket sealer had plugged an oil passage (fortunately it was the color used by the professional engine rebuilder, not the color of the partially-used tube that I used that was still in the trunk - I got a replacement engine without argument).

Every time you put a tool to something you run a risk (from negligible to appreciable) of rounding off / stripping / breaking / losing that or a related thing - and stripping / breaking / losing / mis-threading / mis-aligning on re-installation. And then there's the question of whether you are really going to test the new part under all the conditions that you know the take-out operated - extended idle, cold start at sub-freezing temperature, running at WOT.

You can adopt the maintenance regimen you are most comfortable with. Myself, I strongly prefer to not muck with things that don't need it.
I agree. Do what gives you peace of mind while cruising. I choose to have spares even though I have twin engines. I don't see much difference between a part being on my boat and a shelf at a parts store. My motto is: if it's not broke don't fix it.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:45 PM   #32
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I think it's pointless to try and make a "one rule fits all" statement in regard to carrying spares and installing the new and keeping the old. I carry a brand new pump assembly for my Jabsco manual head. I certainly wouldn't want to install the new one and carry the used one as a spare.

Some of these points have been made, but we all operate our boats under different circumstances and we all have different levels of mechanical ability when it comes to diagnosing problems and replacing parts.

Another issue is trying to figure out what spare parts you need, the cost of the parts, and where to keep them on your boat. On about the fifth day of what is now a two month plus cruise I stripped the gears on my windlass. Should I have expected that? Should I have invested $700 to carry a spare in case it failed?

I ordered a replacement and had it sent to a marina I would be staying at.

The accumulator tank for the fresh water system failed. Who would have expected that? I borrowed the marina's loaner vehicle, went to West Marine and bought a replacement.

I do carry the usual filters, belts and impellers and I have a reasonably extensive tool set and the ability to use it.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:35 PM   #33
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I do carry the usual filters, belts and impellers and I have a reasonably extensive tool set and the ability to use it.
Having the tools is important, and having the shop manuals plus Calder's is imperative. I've fixed stuff simply by extrapolating what Calder said regarding diesels back when I had Beast.

Have I mentioned how nice it is to have a diesel?!

And being able to think "outside the box" sometimes helps too. The day before I was to leave I managed to dump the o-ring out of my water filter overboard. It sank like a rock.

Doggone thing won't pull water when air leaks in and I didn't want to by-pass it, though that was an option.

So, I took a pair of gloves, some teflon tape and made my own seal. It's not fancy -- it is "wrong" and (most important of all) it works. When I get to a Home Depot I'll buy another o-ring (or two)

Waiting to get to a store to buy the "perfect" thing isn't always a viable option. Sometimes I make do.

For the record: if I'd have had a way to buy an o-ring that Saturday night, I'd have done so. But I wasn't going to delay departure for something that functioned, albeit not with the proper o-ring.
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:11 PM   #34
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We bought a used boat with appropriate hours on her. We have decided to keep her and have added another 1000hours since purchase. We have purchased and stored the required maintenance spares for the next 2000 hours. We hate to wind up some place far away without the ability to perform routine maintenance to enjoy our trip,


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Old 06-23-2014, 11:37 PM   #35
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I carry lots of tools and spare parts aboard... matter o' fact, just in case a spare part not being correct, or a tool not available... I carry an entire spare drive line on each side of each pleasure cruiser I own.
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:48 AM   #36
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I carry a large number of spares on board. Over the years I have bailed out a good number of other boaters who couldn't get what they needed quickly.

As far as being able to wait for a shipment, I have seen guys wait three weeks in the Bahamas for an item from Florida. In many of the Caribbean countries it takes at least a week for a simple item to be shipped, delivered to customs and cleared through customs, and that is with the very premium overnight FedEx and an item that is in stock.
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Old 06-24-2014, 07:42 AM   #37
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:06 AM   #38
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I'm just getting my arms around what came with our boat (also a Defever 44). The PO, also a fanatic, cycled his main engine impellers periodically with spares. He said it kept them from deforming in the pump housing and greatly lengthened their lives. The used ones he left me look like new, but I'm not sure I'll continue the practice.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:12 AM   #39
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Six years ago... Raw water pump, sudden severe crack at pipe junction and heavy flow into bilge - bitch place to reach into on starboard engine. Boat ran fine on her port engine for rest of fun weekend outing on SF Bay Area. Replaced pump soon after. I do carry parts, and, appreciate twins for several reasons.
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