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Old 07-25-2014, 09:00 AM   #1
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What can Yanks learn from the Dutch?

From the "N47 - Out of Production" thread:
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Originally Posted by N4061 View Post
PAE recently added the N47 to their list of "out of production" boats as buyer see the value in stepping up to the N52. Another sign of the times that the little guys (myself included) are being boxed out of the Full Displacement Hull Trawler game as the costs of building smaller boats don't make sense for the big three players. I'm looking forward to a high quality, smaller company to come in and pick up the 40'-49' market.
So how is it that full displacement boat (whatever your definition of that happens to be) offerings keep shrinking in the US market, while across the pond in the Netherlands there seems to be a healthy market for such boats?

A quick cruise through YW would reveal a whole bunch of high quality boats that seem to have several redeeming qualities - none of which are embraced by the market here?

Here's what I see a lot of in the Dutch offerings:
Steel Full Displacement Hulls - many even with canoe sterns!
Low HP (<<200HP) AND healthy tankage (>>300 gal)
Low air draft (obviously a result of their cruising grounds)
Aft master cabin
Open living areas with good outside views
Usable outdoor living space on aft decks with outside steering
High levels of finish with YW prices that aren't out of this world

Brands such as Linssen, Drifter, Aquanaut, Almkotter, Stevenvlet, Gielen, Staverse, Vripack, etc, etc - Seems to be lots and lots of offerings out there (new or used) that have what I would imagine are extremely valuable attributes in US cruising grounds.

So what gives? What do the Dutch know that we Yanks don't?
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Old 07-25-2014, 09:25 AM   #2
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[ /QUOTE]

So what gives? What do the Dutch know that we Yanks don't?

[/QUOTE]

I would suggest they know how to avoid an addiction to speed.
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:22 AM   #3
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In 1981 I bought a new trawler style boat that cruised regularly about 7 knots. Since the boat was kept on the Tennessee River few around had even seen or heard of this kind of boat. It was my pride and joy. There was a guy that parked his house boat with the big front porch bow in. His boat had big Crusader gass engine. As I would walk down the dock, he would ask how fast does your boat go. Then he would laugh his big butt off. His boat would rarely leave the dock. When it did he very seldom ventured over 5 miles. Nothing wrong with that if that's your style.

One Sunday afternoon with many people on the dock he did the same in a louder that normal voice. I stopped in front of him for a minute, paused, and the dock got really quiet. I then answered him in a louder than normal voice. I said to him that I wasn't exactly sure about the top speed, but the last time I checked I was cruising exactly 7 knots faster than his boat. He never mentioned that again.

The Dutch have done a great job of putting out boats for the cruising conditions in Europe. Rivers, canals, and high fuel prices call for a more sedate pace of cruising. They build some great boats and mega yachts.
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:41 AM   #4
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I've seen on YW that a few examples have been brought over - there's a couple of Linssens on the market now.

How instrusive/expensive would it be to be able to make these boats interoperable with US systems? I assume some sort of power conversion / rewire would be involved?

For the asking prices on YW, I am surprised more have not been shipped our voyaged over - I am assuming this is a result of shipping or rewire / mod costs.
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Old 07-25-2014, 12:02 PM   #5
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For the asking prices on YW, I am surprised more have not been shipped our voyaged over - I am assuming this is a result of shipping or rewire / mod costs.
Shipping would be expensive, rewiring would be minor in comparison I think. But I'll bet the big issue is that these boats look "different" than our boats and most potential buyers don't have the self-confidence to deal with that.
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Old 07-25-2014, 12:37 PM   #6
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So what gives? What do the Dutch know that we Yanks don't?
They no there is no real market for those boats over here. FD boats are a very small niche market here.

Then throw in the costs of getting the boats here, outfitting them with US compatible systems and parts and then backing them up with any kind of real service and I imagine there is no money in it.
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Old 07-25-2014, 12:51 PM   #7
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Shipping would be expensive, rewiring would be minor in comparison I think. But I'll bet the big issue is that these boats look "different" than our boats and most potential buyers don't have the self-confidence to deal with that.
Same counts for the dutch, thats why we love our "Steel" boats and less like the "Plastic" US ones.
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Old 07-25-2014, 01:02 PM   #8
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The big hassle is steel is uncommon on small boats in the US , so it is totally unknown in terms of maint and upkeep.

Not many yards would tackle repairs to Yacht quality.

This keeps the price low , regardless of how fine the boats really are.
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Old 07-25-2014, 01:35 PM   #9
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Still, it's an interesting topic.

One thing we have in the US is (relatively) lots of moorage for larger yachts - and the cost-effectiveness of our moorage favors large boats (up to maybe 65', where finding permanent and transient moorage gets more difficult). A 50' yacht in Europe is pretty special - but not here. And fiberglass is heavily slanted towards mass production once you have the tooling.

Look at our houses compared to equivalent homes in Europe. We clearly have (collectively) different values.
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Old 07-25-2014, 01:44 PM   #10
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They no there is no real market for those boats over here. FD boats are a very small niche market here.
Exactly my point - why? Does everyone really love getting their three story condos up on plane that much?

Quote:
But I'll bet the big issue is that these boats look "different" than our boats and most potential buyers don't have the self-confidence to deal with that.
Ugh - for me that'd be reason enough to cross an ocean to find something that isn't cookie cutter!

It just seems to me that these efficient steel boats would be a good fit to a lot of US cruising grounds. Just curious!
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Old 07-25-2014, 01:59 PM   #11
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1988 Linssen 402 SX Royale Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Maybe our admirals don't like their paint jobs....or is that primer???
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by refugio View Post
Still, it's an interesting topic.

One thing we have in the US is (relatively) lots of moorage for larger yachts - and the cost-effectiveness of our moorage favors large boats (up to maybe 65', where finding permanent and transient moorage gets more difficult). A 50' yacht in Europe is pretty special - but not here. And fiberglass is heavily slanted towards mass production once you have the tooling.

Look at our houses compared to equivalent homes in Europe. We clearly have (collectively) different values.
Because if in The Netherlands a boat is smaller as 15 meter (~50') and can not go faster as 20 km/h (~11 knots) you don't need a licence nor registration.
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:15 PM   #13
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1988 Linssen 402 SX Royale Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Maybe our admirals don't like their paint jobs....or is that primer???
Ha!! That certainly wasn't the Dutch cruiser I was think of! I'm sure that paint job has a story!!!

I was thinking more along these lines:

Kotter 1
Kotter 2
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:16 PM   #14
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Because if in The Netherlands a boat is smaller as 15 meter (~50') and can not go faster as 20 km/h (~11 knots) you don't need a licence nor registration.
Ah!!! Now we're on to something!
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:17 PM   #15
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I've seen on YW that a few examples have been brought over - there's a couple of Linssens on the market now.

How instrusive/expensive would it be to be able to make these boats interoperable with US systems? I assume some sort of power conversion / rewire would be involved?

For the asking prices on YW, I am surprised more have not been shipped our voyaged over - I am assuming this is a result of shipping or rewire / mod costs.
Seahorse Marine has steel Diesel Ducks that are made in China and can be shipped to the US but the cost of shipping and commissioning work is about $100,000! Some owners are buying in China and living in Asia for a few years on the $100K before sailing the boat back to the US.

$100k to ship the boat to the US is expensive, especially compared to the $500-600K boat purchase price.

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Old 07-25-2014, 02:52 PM   #16
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35' Dutch Steel......
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Old 07-25-2014, 04:39 PM   #17
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Just a few observations.
The reason the Dutch favour steel boats is that their canals freeze over in the winter and that can crush a fibreglass boat.
Many are lifted out and kept in heated boat sheds ashore over winter.
Linssen is a fine boat but one of the more expensive models.
The Dutch boat builders are very helpful and will certainly wire the boat to US standards if required.
Personally I wouldn't buy a steel boat unless it was sprayed with expanded polyurethane insulation before fitting out.
I was recently at the Dusseldorf boat show and some of the paint jobs on the hulls would match any car for the quality of finish.
H.I.S.W.A is the Dutch brokers association and they run the Amsterdam boat show.
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:07 PM   #18
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...
Personally I wouldn't buy a steel boat unless it was sprayed with expanded polyurethane insulation before fitting out. ...
Like this?

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Old 07-25-2014, 05:28 PM   #19
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...
Personally I wouldn't buy a steel boat unless it was sprayed with expanded polyurethane insulation before fitting out.
....
There is some debate about using expanded foam as insulation. One certainly wants a closed foam that does not absorb water. There is a foam product that one glues to the hull that can be used but it is expensive.

One needs a good insulation on a metal hull and the spray foam is ok by me.

What is most important is to use a 2-3 coats of epoxy paint to protect the metal from water/condensation to prevent rust. That is the key followed by an insulation that is very attached to the hull paint.

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Old 07-25-2014, 09:19 PM   #20
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I would love to see a designer come up with a steel boat where the interior/deck/house could be unfastened from the hull and lifted out for easy access to the hull and maintenance when required.
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