What are boats made of...
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Parmenter
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How long's a piece of string?
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The biggest advantage I can think of with wood is its natural insulation- a wood boat will tend to be warmer than its FG or metal counterpart. Wood can also demand much more diligence in maintenance, especially in warmer climates.
One construction method to avoid would be fiberglass over wood, unless it's part of the original construction method. Putting 'glass over the wood of an older boat sounds like a good idea; what the 'glass does is seal in any moisture that may be present in the wood.
Fiberglass- light, strong, and easy to work with.
Aluminum- same.
One construction method to avoid would be fiberglass over wood, unless it's part of the original construction method. Putting 'glass over the wood of an older boat sounds like a good idea; what the 'glass does is seal in any moisture that may be present in the wood.
Fiberglass- light, strong, and easy to work with.
Aluminum- same.
BruceK
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A broad question, try a good boating reference handbook, like Nigel Calder`s Cruising Handbook which from p34 deals with construction materials. Your municipal library might have something.
Nomad Willy
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FG plastic is not strong and light. It is heavy and weak.
Plywood is the strongest and lightest. Yes FG sheathed wood boats are better but will eventually de-laminate. If wood it's far better to be all wood.
But there are many kinds of strength. If your boat was to be beaten apart by waves or overloaded metal or plywood would be best. Running into a rock is a very different kind of strength. I remember when FG boats first came out they'd stand up a small boat and shoot a gun at it to demonstrate how strong it was. But FG boats are the first to fall apart if left on an exposed beach.
I think the biggest advantage w wood is lightness but that dosn't apply to most old planked boats.
Pau Hana I'm not pick'in on you .. I'm just disagreeing.
Plywood is the strongest and lightest. Yes FG sheathed wood boats are better but will eventually de-laminate. If wood it's far better to be all wood.
But there are many kinds of strength. If your boat was to be beaten apart by waves or overloaded metal or plywood would be best. Running into a rock is a very different kind of strength. I remember when FG boats first came out they'd stand up a small boat and shoot a gun at it to demonstrate how strong it was. But FG boats are the first to fall apart if left on an exposed beach.
I think the biggest advantage w wood is lightness but that dosn't apply to most old planked boats.
Pau Hana I'm not pick'in on you .. I'm just disagreeing.
The reason I'm asking is that I found two boats that match my criteria. Trailerable, small enough to operate single handed, big enough to stay one or two days out. One of the boats was 1970's custom boat made out of wood apparently well keep and in good running conditions. Price was 6k. Then I saw a 98 fiberglass boat, not exactly a trawler, but something that works for me, that looked very well keep in the photos for 10K. Assuming that both are in relatively good and similar conditions. Would it be worth paying the difference for the FG.
CPseudonym
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In my opinion, and based upon you are asking the question, yes. Fiberglass is worth the extra money. I passed on several very nice woodies because I do not have the time to give them the love required.
Woodies are a labor of love and not for everyone.
Woodies are a labor of love and not for everyone.
psneeld
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If you are asking....good chances that you aren't experienced enough with wood to really want one and take care of it properly...no slam..just most boat owners are not knowledgeable enough to do so...
Fiberglass and it's variants can be extraordinarily light and strong...probably why it's used more and more in aviation....it just ahs it's limitations and cost factors so there's no real general statement that really applies.
Fiberglass and it's variants can be extraordinarily light and strong...probably why it's used more and more in aviation....it just ahs it's limitations and cost factors so there's no real general statement that really applies.
Nomad Willy
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Josan89,
If you had said new wood boat I'd say wood boat but that wood boat is 40 years old.
Get a good FG boat .. Not necessarily the one you spoke of. There are good reasons most all pleasure boats are FG.
If you had said new wood boat I'd say wood boat but that wood boat is 40 years old.
Get a good FG boat .. Not necessarily the one you spoke of. There are good reasons most all pleasure boats are FG.
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And back at ya, Eric. I heartily disagree with you re FG being heavy and weak- and I believe many manufacturers would disagree as well.
As far as the OP's question- the best advice given was "If you have to ask, go with the FG boat".
BruceK
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On another thread on likely ownership costs, the OP says the boat will likely be trailerable. Others will know if are there issues keeping a timber planked boat out of the water?
Nomad Willy
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Yes Walt. I was surprised when I was told that. Seems to me the source was excellent but I don't remember who it was. One wouldn't think so I admit. And of course it may not even be so.
Pau Hana that's why FG boats are so heavy. The material is so weak it requires a lot more of it to make a reasonably strong boat. Sure you can make a strong plastic boat but not w common economical materials and methods. Look at wood and FG kayaks. Wood ones are far lighter and unreinforced plastic kayaks are even heavier yet. Plastic is a very heavy material and glass fibers only solve part of that problem. Adding FG sheathing dosn't make a wood boat stronger. To objectively compare you'd need to remove 1lb of wood for every pound of plastic applied. It will make it more abrasion resistant and less likely to be holed by puncture but overall strength will be higher w/o the FG sheathing.
And planked boats should be kept in the water. Especially those w wide planks, planks of wood not very directionally stable or both. Trailer boating didn't become popular until plywood boats.
Pau Hana that's why FG boats are so heavy. The material is so weak it requires a lot more of it to make a reasonably strong boat. Sure you can make a strong plastic boat but not w common economical materials and methods. Look at wood and FG kayaks. Wood ones are far lighter and unreinforced plastic kayaks are even heavier yet. Plastic is a very heavy material and glass fibers only solve part of that problem. Adding FG sheathing dosn't make a wood boat stronger. To objectively compare you'd need to remove 1lb of wood for every pound of plastic applied. It will make it more abrasion resistant and less likely to be holed by puncture but overall strength will be higher w/o the FG sheathing.
And planked boats should be kept in the water. Especially those w wide planks, planks of wood not very directionally stable or both. Trailer boating didn't become popular until plywood boats.
BruceK
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Worth noting, wood can rot, and fiberglass has it`s own kind of "rot", namely, osmosis.Not all boats get it, severity varies, can be costly and time consuming to fix, if present should be found at survey. Having a boat at home on a trailer would be good for a handyman who read up on how to.
Northern Spy
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V: What do you burn apart from witches?
P1: More witches! (P2 nudge P1)
(pause)
P3: Wood!
V: So, why do witches burn?
(long pause)
P2: Cuz they're made of... wood?
V: Gooood.
(crowd congratulates P2)
V: So, how do we tell if she is made of wood?
P1: Build a bridge out of her!
V: Ahh, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?
P1: Oh yeah...
V: Does wood sink in water?
P1: No
P3: No. It floats!
P1: Let's throw her into the bog! (yeah yeah ya!)
V: What also floats in water?
P1: Bread
P3: Apples
P2: Very small rocks
(V looks annoyed)
P1: Cider
P3: Grape gravy
P1: Cherries
P3: Mud
King: A Duck!
(all look and stare at king)
V: Exactly! So, logically...
P1(thinking): If she ways the same as a duck... she's made of wood!
V: And therefore,
(pause & think)
P3: A witch! (P1: a witch)(P2: a witch)(all: a witch!)
V: We shall use my largest scales.
P1: More witches! (P2 nudge P1)
(pause)
P3: Wood!
V: So, why do witches burn?
(long pause)
P2: Cuz they're made of... wood?
V: Gooood.
(crowd congratulates P2)
V: So, how do we tell if she is made of wood?
P1: Build a bridge out of her!
V: Ahh, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?
P1: Oh yeah...
V: Does wood sink in water?
P1: No
P3: No. It floats!
P1: Let's throw her into the bog! (yeah yeah ya!)
V: What also floats in water?
P1: Bread
P3: Apples
P2: Very small rocks
(V looks annoyed)
P1: Cider
P3: Grape gravy
P1: Cherries
P3: Mud
King: A Duck!
(all look and stare at king)
V: Exactly! So, logically...
P1(thinking): If she ways the same as a duck... she's made of wood!
V: And therefore,
(pause & think)
P3: A witch! (P1: a witch)(P2: a witch)(all: a witch!)
V: We shall use my largest scales.
FF
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.good chances that you aren't experienced enough with wood to really want one and take care of it properly...no slam..just most boat owners are not knowledgeable enough to do so...
Wood boat owners were seldom capable of doing the maint required to keeop the boat afloat.
Thats why boat yards were invented.
Years ago many boats over 40 -45 ft would have a :man: aboard who would clean , ventilate daily and do the minor repairs .
Wood boat owners were seldom capable of doing the maint required to keeop the boat afloat.
Thats why boat yards were invented.
Years ago many boats over 40 -45 ft would have a :man: aboard who would clean , ventilate daily and do the minor repairs .
Nomad Willy
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Spy I enjoyed your witch hunt but not sure where it went.
Vashon_Trawler
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I'd personally never opt for a wooden hull if boating in warm southern waters. I just don't have the time/expertise/money that is required to maintain a wooden hull. I understand that some yards won't haul wooden boats.
I was reading a book from the 1970s yesterday evening about boat building and there was a section devoted to the pros/cons of ferrocement. The idea of cement hulls seemed popular in the 1970s but never took off I presume. I've seen more ferrocement hulls on land and unfinished than completed projects in the water.
I was reading a book from the 1970s yesterday evening about boat building and there was a section devoted to the pros/cons of ferrocement. The idea of cement hulls seemed popular in the 1970s but never took off I presume. I've seen more ferrocement hulls on land and unfinished than completed projects in the water.
FF
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I've seen more ferrocement hulls on land and unfinished than completed projects in the water.
That is because on a sail boat the hull at best is 15% the cost of the boat.
Most of these folks could not afford to finish a FREE hull.
That is because on a sail boat the hull at best is 15% the cost of the boat.
Most of these folks could not afford to finish a FREE hull.
Tad Roberts
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Good boats can be built of wood, fiberglass, steel, aluminum, carbon fibre, and cement, bad ones as well.
Advantages of one material over another depend on intended use, budget, availability of the material and labour skilled in its use, and longevity or cost/benefit.
High-speed boats require light and stiff materials to be possible, heavy displacement boats can be built from anything but super-light construction may be detrimental.
One measure of a materials usefulness might be stiffness/weight ratio. Steel is quite stiff (it resists bending) but very heavy. Carbon is even stiffer, but very light. There is a huge difference in cost between the two. Fiberglass is not very stiff, but it's cheap so you can use a bunch, which makes it heavy, but that's okay because HP is cheap....er....well not so much any more......thus the proliferation of cored fiberglass today.
Another measure of materials is fatigue. We've all bent a piece of copper wire three times and it breaks (reached it's fatigue limit). But bend a similar piece of wood and nothing much happens? Keep on bending it.....hummm.....nothing....when will it break? Well it might not....high fatigue limit. It turns out fiberglass fatigues fairly quickly, as does aluminum (especially in the welded state), steel more slowly, and wood has the best resistance to fatigue. But wood has other drawbacks, low resistance to moisture, lack of availability, etc.
Each material and construction method has both advantages and disadvantages. And each application can use those advantages or not.....
Advantages of one material over another depend on intended use, budget, availability of the material and labour skilled in its use, and longevity or cost/benefit.
High-speed boats require light and stiff materials to be possible, heavy displacement boats can be built from anything but super-light construction may be detrimental.
One measure of a materials usefulness might be stiffness/weight ratio. Steel is quite stiff (it resists bending) but very heavy. Carbon is even stiffer, but very light. There is a huge difference in cost between the two. Fiberglass is not very stiff, but it's cheap so you can use a bunch, which makes it heavy, but that's okay because HP is cheap....er....well not so much any more......thus the proliferation of cored fiberglass today.
Another measure of materials is fatigue. We've all bent a piece of copper wire three times and it breaks (reached it's fatigue limit). But bend a similar piece of wood and nothing much happens? Keep on bending it.....hummm.....nothing....when will it break? Well it might not....high fatigue limit. It turns out fiberglass fatigues fairly quickly, as does aluminum (especially in the welded state), steel more slowly, and wood has the best resistance to fatigue. But wood has other drawbacks, low resistance to moisture, lack of availability, etc.
Each material and construction method has both advantages and disadvantages. And each application can use those advantages or not.....
Vashon_Trawler
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I would say much easier. I just regularly clean and polish/wax the fiberglass. The gelcoat (hard, outer protective skin if you will) can get faded and chalky over time but can usually be cleaned up with some elbow grease. I regularly inspect for cracks and "crazing", which can lead to delamination of the fiberglass. Balsa core rot is something to watch as well, but many boats are foam cored (foam doesn't rot like balsa but will deteriorate).
Gelcoat that is cosmetically fargone may require painting with such products as Awlgrip or another comparable, marine coating.
I'm not a fiberglass expert, but I learned a lot from hours of reading on the net about preventative maintenance and repair of fiberglass--wealth of resources out there!
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Nomad Willy
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Fiberglass construction is plastic, glass fibers laminated together with wood or other materials to give the weak FG membrane enough stiffness to be strong enough to hold together.
The end product is just barely strong enough and at least half again as heavy as it would be if it were plywood or similar light wood construction. Not saying plywood is perfect of course but it is strong and light. It's also easy to repair and quick to build.
The ideal material is probably a "cold molded" boat or one made from small strip planks held in place by a glass/epoxy overlay on both sides. Like some canoes.
I once heard a man bragging about how much better his Reniell boat was compared to his friends Bayliner. They both had their boats shipped up on a barge and were the same size but the Reniell was heavier. The man probably bought anything that said "heavy duty" ... cause the word heavy was there. My dad liked everything "skookum" also. But lightness is a boaters friend and is the road to performance.
But don't ask me if my boat is light.
FF, The problem w ferro cement is that it is reinforced w steel and of course it rusts.
The end product is just barely strong enough and at least half again as heavy as it would be if it were plywood or similar light wood construction. Not saying plywood is perfect of course but it is strong and light. It's also easy to repair and quick to build.
The ideal material is probably a "cold molded" boat or one made from small strip planks held in place by a glass/epoxy overlay on both sides. Like some canoes.
I once heard a man bragging about how much better his Reniell boat was compared to his friends Bayliner. They both had their boats shipped up on a barge and were the same size but the Reniell was heavier. The man probably bought anything that said "heavy duty" ... cause the word heavy was there. My dad liked everything "skookum" also. But lightness is a boaters friend and is the road to performance.
But don't ask me if my boat is light.
FF, The problem w ferro cement is that it is reinforced w steel and of course it rusts.
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Oh, so true. I have a cousin who started a ferro cement yacht, 55' of it, back in 1978/ He did a beautiful job of the hull, but it is still up in a cradle somewhere waiting to be finished. It was the fit out that cost the small fortune. He says he still hopes to finish it one day...
