Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-05-2018, 08:26 AM   #1
Guru
 
Steve91T's Avatar
 
City: Huntersville NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 705
What’s the point of getting oil samples before purchase???

It’s virtuely meaningless without a trend. One of the mains was perfect, the other showed some signs of wear, an the gen was a mess. But it starts, runs, holds a load, doesn’t smoke and has great oil pressure. The sample place themselves it really doesn’t mean much unless there is a trend.

Thoughts?
__________________
Advertisement

Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 08:37 AM   #2
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,208
Post the reports here. Pre-purchase samples do have value, but they are imperfect tools. I've interpreted several hundred, so might be able to add something here.
__________________

Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 08:48 AM   #3
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4,058
I have this posted on my web site.

http://atanchor.com/wp-content/uploa...OIL-REPORT.pdf
menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 08:51 AM   #4
Guru
 
Steve91T's Avatar
 
City: Huntersville NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 705
Here you go. Thanks guys!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	6BD34175-9643-4D15-AF2F-A7190A8DBAD6.jpg
Views:	146
Size:	54.2 KB
ID:	80583   Click image for larger version

Name:	3C72154A-59FD-4A0A-BF11-6E2D7DAB451D.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	55.8 KB
ID:	80584   Click image for larger version

Name:	CC95A762-BF26-4B3D-83A7-7E8535B1694F.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	53.4 KB
ID:	80585   Click image for larger version

Name:	26106021-CCB7-4C5E-A287-F1FE0102D2EA.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	55.1 KB
ID:	80586   Click image for larger version

Name:	861E881C-FF28-451C-92D5-C7A180037872.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	53.5 KB
ID:	80587  

Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 08:53 AM   #5
Member
 
City: Wildwood NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Lit'l Bee
Vessel Model: Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve91T View Post
It’s virtuely meaningless without a trend. One of the mains was perfect, the other showed some signs of wear, an the gen was a mess. But it starts, runs, holds a load, doesn’t smoke and has great oil pressure. The sample place themselves it really doesn’t mean much unless there is a trend.



Thoughts?


Trends are important, but some materials found in the oil are major red flags, eg: salt, coolant, bearing metals.
I walked away from a purchase when the engine survey & oil analysis revealed a raw-water leak into the turbo, meaning salt water was being added to the combustion cylinders.
A costly parting.
McDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 08:57 AM   #6
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: AICW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 19,336
They can show materials or liquids that shouldn't be there... like antifreeze, possible high sodium showing salt water, etc......

One right after an oil change...maybe not so much...its a judgement call, but for $25 per engine, its one of the cheapest insurance policies you can buy.

It may NOT show a hidden problem, but then again....it MIGHT.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 09:09 AM   #7
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,859
Steve

Good question. In addition to oil sample results and meaning if any, look for:

Soot on the transom, oil burning smoke after warmup, does the engine immediately start, how much oil consumed between changes, by the book oil changes, ER condition, oil leaks, history of over heats etc.

This is where obtaining the maintenance logbooks prior to purchase pays off. And being able to talk with the maintenance provider(s). On go fasts forget all of the above.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 09:43 AM   #8
Guru
 
Steve91T's Avatar
 
City: Huntersville NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 705
So what do you guys think then of the samples that I posted?
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 09:49 AM   #9
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 806
The reports were unreadable for me. Need higher resolution.
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 10:18 AM   #10
Guru
 
Steve91T's Avatar
 
City: Huntersville NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 705
Hrm...it’s how they uploaded. Any ideas how to upload a high resolution image? I’d love to get opinions soon.
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 10:47 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
City: Tampa, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDan View Post
Trends are important, but some materials found in the oil are major red flags...
Exactly. A one-time analysis could show up some materials that are WAAAY out of whack for the time that is supposed to be on the engine. That's a big red flag. Things that seem a little off? Those don't tell you anything without the trend.
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 10:53 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
TomandJeri's Avatar
 
City: Lake Ontario
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Trawler Shopping 35-40'
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 107
We get regular reports from oil samples taken in the field of both diesel engines and hydraulic systems. While it's instructive to watch trends, what usually pops up the yellow and red flags (same Cat analysis results form as yours) are really bad things like high water content and dirt levels (hydraulics) and water/dirt/coolant/metals in the engines.



What triggered the yellow and red flags on those two reports?
TomandJeri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 11:14 AM   #13
Guru
 
Steve91T's Avatar
 
City: Huntersville NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 705
Diesel generator
Ford Lehman 225 mains. Over 5000 hrs on mains and gen. Oil hasn’t been Changed in a while. 30 hrs on mains but 2 years ago. Gen is unknown

Generator:
Interpretation Text:IRON IS ELEVATED WITH EXTREMELY HIGH ALUMINUM AND SODIUM. LEAD, CHROME, SILICON AND POTASSIUM ARE ABOVE NORMAL A WELL. TEST FOR GLYCOL WAS NEGATIVE. VISCOSITY IS LOW. GC INDICATED 2.99% FUEL DILUTION. POSSIBLE WEAR SOURCES: BEARINGS, PISTON RINGS, CYLINDER LINERS, VALVES, CUT FILTER OPEN AND INSPECT FOR METAL, REPAIR AS NECESSARY. AFTERWARDS; CHANGE OIL AND PULL ANOTHER SAMPLE AT 25HRS TO MONITOR.

Starboard main:
Interpretation Text:AS COMPARED WITH YOUR PORT SIDE ENGINE. IRON APPEARS ELEVATED. COPPER AND LEAD APPEAR ABOVE NORMAL AS WELL. POSSIBLE WEAR SOURCES: BEARINGS, VALVES, CHECK FILTER FOR METAL/PLUGS. VISCOSITY IS LOW. GC INDICATED 1.88%% FUEL DILUTION. MONITOR SYSTEM'S OPERATION CLOSELY AND PULL ANOTHER SAMPLE AT 25HRS MONITOR.
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 04:25 PM   #14
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ and Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,695
My last generator sample came back like yours. It was hard to start. 10 hours later the engine would not start and all three cylinders had below minimum compression pressure. My thoughts are you are looking at least an engine rebuild in the near future.
__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Currently in Cape May, NJ
High Wire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 04:38 PM   #15
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,464
I test my oil once or twice a year depending on hours. I centrifuge the oil so don't change unless I get a bad report, and that's never happened. The filters get changed once a year and get cut open to see what they're catching.
An oil test can catch things many hours in advance. It keeps a minor repair from becoming a major repair.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 04:43 PM   #16
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Wire View Post
My last generator sample came back like yours. It was hard to start. 10 hours later the engine would not start and all three cylinders had below minimum compression pressure. My thoughts are you are looking at least an engine rebuild in the near future.
If the engine is diesel, you can add a block heater and get a few more easy starts. But watch for oil in the exhaust.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 05:19 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Rain Dog's Avatar
 
City: Pensacola, FL
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Rain Dog
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 42 Classic
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 183
How about this one?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pra...0GitL7Xds/view
Rain Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 05:38 PM   #18
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,859
Steve

My 2 cents worth.

If you really like the boat, suggest you price in the cost to professionally rebuild engine(s). A less than stellar rebuild carries a risk. Time too.

The reason for a survey is to detect problems and fatal flaws. Looks like you found some. The other tell is no regular oil changes. Stick to your guns.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 07:29 PM   #19
Guru
 
Steve91T's Avatar
 
City: Huntersville NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 705
Man you guys are making me nervous. I know that there was no smoke and it had great oil pressure (50-60 psi). It did have low water flow out the exhaust and auto shut down due to overheat. The owner is having the impelled changed and will go from there if that doesn’t fix the issue. I’m going to have that mechanic check for blow by. If there is blow by, we are going to ask for money off the purchase price.

The generator is diesel, and it did crank for a few seconds before starting. It seems similar to my gas generator that I had. I’m not sure if diesel generators are supposed to start faster than gas generators.
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 08:17 PM   #20
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,298
Regarding oil analysis before purchase:

Had oil analysis done on my engine, transmission, and generator even though they all had less than 1,000 hours. Oil analysis on the transmission showed a significantly elevated sodium content. The transmission cooler had a slow leak and salt water was getting into the transmission oil. Renegotiated the price based on a Cummins dealer estimate to replace the transmission cooler (along with some other deferred maintenance). The $75+/- cost of oil analysis reduced my purchase price by over $1K on the transmission alone. Did the work my self and sourced OEM parts at a better price than the dealer estimate. In my case, oil analysis paid huge dividends between saving me money and identifying a potentially severe problem that was completely resolved.

Ted
__________________

__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012