Whale Watcher Hits Dock

[menzies]

"Sinsky said his family then decided not to take the cruise ship tour on Thursday." :grin

Glad those guys finally saw the old lady!

Harbor Cruise Ship Crashes Near San Diego's Broadway Pier | NBC 7 San Diego

 

[Genecop]

Park it anywhere? The Hornblower...WTF..

 

[Dawdler]

just guessing--but won't be surprised if it turns out to be electronic controls...

 

[MRRiley]

You can see they went for "five short blasts" as soon as they realized it wasn't going to be slowing down the way they expected.

Pretty abrupt stop. Wonder how bad it was on board?

 

[Wilson]

3 people were injured, not severely. I was in the harbor fishing that morning, missed the show by a few hours...

 

[dhays]

Watching the video I was surprised that only one gentleman helped get that old lady out of the way, and you could see him thinking about it before he did.

 

[menzies]

Two did, the guy who pulled down the barrier and a guy in the yellow raincoat who grabbed her.

 

[HiDHo]

I have seen this type of approach before mainly by Captain's that have made the same docking over and over. Impresses the passengers with the fast approach and then hard astern to settle perfectly at the dock, EXCEPT when something fails.
Making your approach at dead slow speed is always prudent seamanship.

 

[High Wire]

That may have been dead slow but stuck in FWD. The investigation will reveal the answer. They are very lucky only 3 injured.

 

[psneeld]

Dead slow doesn't work for cross winds or current all the time...but certainly no more than you need....cowboying is always a mistake in the long run...


I will wait for the investigation for more facts...

 

[dhays]

I have always been a "dead slow" kind of boat handler for docks. However, as others have pointed out, sometimes that just doesn't work with certain wind and current conditions. However, I would rather err on the side of a too slow approach than a too fast approach. If things end badly, I prefer to have as little kinetic energy involved as possible.

 

[psneeld]

I have always been a "dead slow" kind of boat handler for docks. However, as others have pointed out, sometimes that just doesn't work with certain wind and current conditions. However, I would rather err on the side of a too slow approach than a too fast approach. If things end badly, I prefer to have as little kinetic energy involved as possible.

Many here have to remember the difference between those that do stuff like this for a living and weekenders.

Sure slow works....approach slow...nudge the outer dolphin, slide the boat around, scrape up the side of it...slide into the slip...

Really impresses the customers.

Besides...do it enough and you get to the point where you can drive it in without touching anything 99.9% of the time. If the controls fail or the pilot has a seizure or heart attack (like the one working for the Staten Island ferry that crashed a few years back)...then all bets are off.

Like I said...cowboying is stupid....solid, precise and controlled seamanship is expected from those wearing the mantle....when something really bad happens...it's the emergency procedures followed that separates the men from the boys. But accidents will happen and sometimes they are only 1% of the operators fault.


As an operator...I'll take 1% fault in every accident that I may be involved in...most of the time its way more for the operator.....and the good guys know that.

 

[dhays]

Many here have to remember the difference between those that do stuff like this for a living and weekenders.

Sure slow works....approach slow...nudge the outer dolphin, slide the boat around, scrape up the side of it...slide into the slip...

I agree with the first point. I am a weekender, not a pro. However, that second sentence in no way describes how I handle a boat.

Let me put it this way, when I flew those tiny Cessnas around, I was never a great pilot. I was never more than a low hour VFR guy with a private ticket. However, every landing I made I endeavored to do perfectly. Bumpy air, short runway, strong crosswind, none of that mattered. I expected myself to put the aircraft down perfectly smoothly every time. Of course I didn't succeed in that, but I was disappointed in myself if I didn't and tried to figure out where I could have done better.

Docking is the same for me. I expect for my boat to come to a dead stop, perfectly parallel to the dock, with the dock just kissing the fenders. If fail to do that, I feel I have failed. Just "good enough" isn't good enough. Again, I don't succeed all the time, but I keep working at it.

 

[psneeld]

I agree with the first point. I am a weekender, not a pro. However, that second sentence in no way describes how I handle a boat.

Let me put it this way, when I flew those tiny Cessnas around, I was never a great pilot. I was never more than a low hour VFR guy with a private ticket. However, every landing I made I endeavored to do perfectly. Bumpy air, short runway, strong crosswind, none of that mattered. I expected myself to put the aircraft down perfectly smoothly every time. Of course I didn't succeed in that, but I was disappointed in myself if I didn't and tried to figure out where I could have done better.

Docking is the same for me. I expect for my boat to come to a dead stop, perfectly parallel to the dock, with the dock just kissing the fenders. If fail to do that, I feel I have failed. Just "good enough" isn't good enough. Again, I don't succeed all the time, but I keep working at it.

Wow.....not even close....pros are expected to dock in several knot cross currents and severely conflicting winds....thus the expression... 'the quick or the dead". Almost like bad westerns...

Oh and by the way...please stop the airplane references...I have enough time in both that boating and flying have similarities...but not enough.


The best comparison I can make there is pro pilots are expected to make schedules and "safe landings" not necessarily perfect landings all the time.

The reference to scraping down the dolphin is exactly my point...sometimes you HAVE to enter a slip at 2-3, maybe more knots cross-current and NEED all back/all ahead one third or one half to make a "satisfactory" landing. Looks cowboy to non-pros...but is necessary to be a "pro captain".

Even stopping and staring another approach isn't always in the cards.

Most of the time you don't have the luxury of waiting for weather or tide, or changing landing sites, or docking orientation or a lot of other things.

Parallel to the dock???? The easiest of all landing maneuvers? Sure...easy peezy...

Back or pull into a cross current dock with severely conflicting wind...then make it sound so easy.

 

[dhays]

lol, didn't mean to make it sound like it was easy at least for me. Even my home slip gives me trouble at times given the right condition.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
I always try to do my best at docking but I don't beat myself up if I miss a bit. As long as nothing is damaged and more importantly no-one is hurt, I call it good. A bit of dolphin pole bouncing never bothered me at all. Slow and steady is my usual MO but I have been known to come in with "enthusiasm" when I figured conditions warranted it. I always advise the crew to be extra vigilant about themselves if there is any current or wind. "Coming in hot" is the cry.

Don't EVER mention St. Augustine to me if we ever meet!

 

[menzies]

Greetings,
I always try to do my best at docking but I don't beat myself up if I miss a bit. As long as nothing is damaged and more importantly no-one is hurt, I call it good. A bit of dolphin pole bouncing never bothered me at all. Slow and steady is my usual MO but I have been known to come in with "enthusiasm" when I figured conditions warranted it. I always advise the crew to be extra vigilant about themselves if there is any current or wind. "Coming in hot" is the cry.

Don't EVER mention St. Augustine to me if we ever meet!

Municipal marina on a flood tide eh?

 

[psneeld]

lol, didn't mean to make it sound like it was easy at least for me. Even my home slip gives me trouble at times given the right condition.

Sorry about coming on strong...just hard to instruct people who belive the throttle should never come off the lower pin. Sometimes it IS the prudent thing to do.

Another urban myth that one way is right and the other wrong...it's all about control.

Machinery failures aside...otherwise a lot of thing like running inlets, passing bridges, etc....would all be dangerous if you thought a failure was immanent.

 

[Jeff F]

...just hard to instruct people who belive the throttle should never come off the lower pin. Sometimes it IS the prudent thing to do.

Another urban myth that one way is right and the other wrong...it's all about control.

Machinery failures aside...otherwise a lot of thing like running inlets, passing bridges, etc....would all be dangerous if you thought a failure was immanent.

Agreed. Maintain your systems and don't be afraid to use the power at hand. I've coached lots of people on handling inboard sailboats, and the first thing I say is "speed is your friend." I grew up watching fishermen in the Maritimes put their boats wherever they wanted in any conditions, and they're running big single engine boats, no thrusters, just a heavy hand on the throttle. Lots of people think that dead slow is prudent, but in my experience the opposite is often the case.

 

[twistedtree]

I think we all agree reckless captains are bad. And what constitutes "reckless" can vary quite a bit given conditions. But from what little that video reveals, it sure looks like some sort of mechanical failure. It would appear to be more than just stuck in gear. Given it's speed, I'd guess some throttle was involved too.

 

[THD]

I kind always like the Cap't Ron approach to docking!

 

[BruceK]

Good strongly built dock!
Wait for the investigations. If there was time to sound the alarm there there was time to correct, if it was possible.
We had a rash of Manly ferry docking incidents here when new ferries with electronic controls with a mind of their own were introduced. One effectively beached itself on an inner harbour beach, others hit timber "catcher" structures at the end of the dock.

 

[HiDHo]

The investigation will like the video.
The Oh S...T came 15 seconds before impact, no wind from the look of the bow pennant, speed, white water around hull. In hind sight I wonder if casualty control might have been to turn into the Dock on starboard side to try scrubbing off some speed ?

 

[psneeld]

Looks like windows there and with paying passengers behind them...not sure that was a viable option.


Really without having ANY idea what happened when...just realize it can happen to anyone unless this boat had a reputation for a bad captain, crew, or maintenance.

 

[hmason]

"Don't EVER mention St. Augustine to me if we ever meet!"

RT, That's funny as we arrived St. Augustine today. Wind blowing 17 and current really ripping. We motored slowly through the south mooring field and dropped the hook just beyond the last moorings. A bit of rockin and rolling tonight. I'm not taking any bets on the conditions at St. Andrews Sound tomorrow. Oh well, I'll check it,out in the morning.
__________________

 

[FlyWright]

Like many, this seems like one of those accidents that could go any direction from mechanical failure to operator incapacitation to operator error...and anything in between. Without any facts, we're left holding an empty bag of evidence. IMO, best left to the pros for the fact gathering and analysis.

Glad there were no serious injuries or worse.

 

[menzies]

"Don't EVER mention St. Augustine to me if we ever meet!"

RT, That's funny as we arrived St. Augustine today. Wind blowing 17 and current really ripping. We motored slowly through the south mooring field and dropped the hook just beyond the last moorings. A bit of rockin and rolling tonight. I'm not taking any bets on the conditions at St. Andrews Sound tomorrow. Oh well, I'll check it,out in the morning.
__________________

You were able to anchor between the south mooring field and the marina?

Good for you. As far as I can see they placed the south and north mooring fields so that people couldn't anchor towards the city from either.

Just an awful decision. We would go down there often for the weekend, anchor and spend money. Not so tempted any more, out of principle more than anything else.

Where are you planning on spending tomorrow? Fort George?

 

[Phyrcooler]

Was at the adjacent Midway Aircraft Carrier Sunday. Damage to the concrete dock more than I expected. Of note is the amount of wake you see at the start of the video. I want to think it was mechanically caused, but having witnessed their coming and going for many years, would not be surprised at speed being a contributing factor. I have witnessed more than one episode of what I would call hot-dogging by vessels at that location. Glad there were no serious injuries, and hope that the Captain is not found culpable.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

St Augustine Municipal Marina has humbled more than a few operators.

 

[Wxx3]

...

Back or pull into a cross current dock with severely conflicting wind...then make it sound so easy.

The only time I hit another boat, when i damaged my fashion plate, I was trying to be cautious. Too cautious it turns out.

The wind was blowing from the stern and we had to back out. I "hot dogged" it out previous times and it worked fine.

So this time, having all the confidence in the world, I figured I could go slower and be "safer".

Half way out of the slip, the wind pushed the stern around in about 10 seconds.

I love TF, I have learned so much. But too many here think there is only ONE WAY to do it. Whatever IT is.