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Old 08-22-2015, 06:59 PM   #1
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Are we missing something?

Hi all! This is our first post, although we have have been avidly reading the forum since joining. We are just retired and transitioning from decades of sailing to a trawler (at least, that's the plan). We sold our Hylas 46 sailboat in December and have been in the hunt since then. We plan to cruise the Pacific Northwest and Mexico but will be based in Southern California, where we love to cruise the Channel Islands and Catalina.

We have narrowed our focus to Krogens, Nordhavns and perhaps Selene (worried about the latter a bit due to commentary from other boaters). 47 - 53 feet seems like the right size for us. We want the boat to be blue-water capable, as sea-kindly as possible, and to have decent range and fuel economy. We also want an engine room that one can work on without being on one's hands and knees.

BUT, I do worry that we may find all the above too slow after a while (although we never sailed faster than 8 knots), or that we might be missing out on something attractive in the "fast trawler class", i.e. Fleming, Grand Banks, or even Offshore.

Sooo, what I'm asking for is the thoughts of this obviously experienced group on the pros/cons of the Krogen/Nordhavn class vs. the Fleming/Grand Banks class - and feel free to mention ones we have overlooked. Thanks!
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Old 08-22-2015, 07:42 PM   #2
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Are you talking about new or used boats? If the latter, age and budget?
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Old 08-22-2015, 07:54 PM   #3
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Used, but newer. Most of what we have been looking at are in the 600 to 900k range. Not looking for a "project". Thanks!
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:01 PM   #4
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Fleming 55 could give you both range and speed. Great boats.
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:07 PM   #5
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:15 PM   #6
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Thanks, Moonstruck! How's the engine room on a F55?
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:30 PM   #7
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We used to have a Grand Banks 47' that could do 20 kts, and now have a Nordhavn 60 that cruises around 8 kts.

Even going slow in the GB and getting about the same mileage as the N, the GB had significantly less range. It just doesn't have the fuel capacity, and I'm 99% sure the same is true for Fleming. I don't know how much range you want, but I think the planing boars will inevitably have less range, even when run slowly. Run fast, they will have much less range, but I'm assuming you wont be blasting around everywhere you go.

One reason they have less fuel capacity, and it is also reflected in reduced interior space, is that the planing hulls have flatter bottoms and are shallower, resulting in less interior volume. Comparing a Nordhavn 47 with a Grand Banks 47, there is much more interior volume on the N.
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:31 PM   #8
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Thanks, Moonstruck! How's the engine room on a F55?
Well, that's the compromise. It is under the saloon floor with limited head room.
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:43 PM   #9
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Thanks, TwistedTree! The N60 is Gorgeous! The Admiral would love a used 55, but it seems too much for a couple. Thoughts?
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:51 PM   #10
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Fleming 55 could give you both range and speed. Great boats.
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:53 PM   #11
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Well, that's the compromise. It is under the saloon floor with limited head room.
Again, I completely agree!
The Fleming 55 is my all time favorite!
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Old 08-22-2015, 10:25 PM   #12
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Thanks, TwistedTree! The N60 is Gorgeous! The Admiral would love a used 55, but it seems too much for a couple. Thoughts?
A good friend of mine runs his 55 w/ his wife with no problems. There was a couple that ran a N76, so if that's possible smaller ones shouldn't be too bad.
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Old 08-22-2015, 10:49 PM   #13
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If I was cruising those areas, retired, I don't think the slow trawler speed would bother me. I like you also have done a lot of sailing (but trawlerless). If you have a job, and a port to get back too a schedule to keep, sure I can see speed being more important. But when you want to poke around and explore, it seems a little bizarre to come screaming in at 20 knots if you plan to just drop the hook and hang out for a few days.
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Old 08-22-2015, 11:28 PM   #14
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I dunno...if I was looking at production boats at that price range I'd probably go with the Nordy 47 for blue water but if I absolutely hax to have the speed I'd be looking at a Krogen Express. Good luck finding a real good engine room in a semi-planing hull.
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Old 08-22-2015, 11:32 PM   #15
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Thanks, TwistedTree! The N60 is Gorgeous! The Admiral would love a used 55, but it seems too much for a couple. Thoughts?
It depends on what you mean by "too much".

I think all the 55s that I'm aware of are run by couples, and my wife and I run our 60 by ourselves. It's not a problem at all in terms of running/operating the boat.

Whether it's too much space, just right, or not enough space is much more subjective. It also hugely depends on how often you have company, as well as how much time you spend on the boat. The longer we are on the boat, and the more we have company, the smaller the boat gets.
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Old 08-22-2015, 11:49 PM   #16
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Thanks, TwistedTree! The N60 is Gorgeous! The Admiral would love a used 55, but it seems too much for a couple. Thoughts?
If you mean that an N55 is "too much for a couple" as far as handling is concerned I can tell you that a friend of mine single handed his N55 all the time, and these weren't just weekend outings... One of his single handed voyages was from Dana Point, CA down past the Galapagos Islands. He now single hands his new 51' SHM Diesel Duck 462, which he's seems to be very happy with.

If you're saying the N55 is "too much for a couple" as far as overall room and size, I'd agree with you but my philosophy these days is less is more.

Quoting another good friend, Jeff Merrill (Jeff Merrill Yacht Sales) he says "Buy the smallest boat that is big enough for the typical crew size on board and the type of cruising you intend to do."
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Old 08-23-2015, 12:32 AM   #17
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...but if I absolutely had to have the speed I'd be looking at a Krogen Express.
I agree. I love a Krogen Express. I didn't think the engine room was too cramped. In fact, it's more spacious and comfortable than my vee berth. If I was going the slow route, I'd probably want a KK 48 North Sea, or a 52 if there's one in your price range.

I don't recall hearing anything negative about Selenes. Actually, I can't think of many 'trawlers' in this size and price range that would't be great to own. I envy you!

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I shared a bunch of locks with one of these recently. It was a really cool boat. Not sure about the engine room, but it fits the bill in most other ways.
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Old 08-23-2015, 12:36 AM   #18
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The Admiral would love a used 55, but it seems too much for a couple. Thoughts?
Good friends of mine run an Ocean Alexander 64 by themselves with no problems. Having been on their boat, off the coast, I'd have to change my vote from a Fleming 55 to the OA 64. It's truly a magnificent vessel! (And a super "stand up" ER!)

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Old 08-23-2015, 03:28 AM   #19
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If offshore ocean cruising is one of your desires then take Grand Banks off your list. GBs are great coastal and protected inside water boats but they are not, nor were they designed to be, offshore cruisers. There are a whole bunch of reasons for this that have been discussed in the past but the bottom line is that they aren't the kind of boat you want to be in out on the open ocean when the weather starts acting up.
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:21 AM   #20
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I, too, like the Krogen Express. It can be cruised fast or slow. The only flaw I find (note: this is personal preference) is the passage to the staterooms. The KEs require going up to the pilot house then down to the staterooms. It just seemed unhandy to me. However, because of the flexibility on speed if I were in the market it would be on my short list.
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