Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-23-2016, 06:09 PM   #1
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,195
Water Maker Install

I have a guy coming next week to look at my set up and give me an estimate for installing a water maker.

I have the room for either a combined unit or a modular one. I am looking at a 100 gallon a day model.

He says he prefers to have a dedicated through hull for the water maker as pulling off an existing through hull for an engine/genny could introduce air into the cooling system.

I am not sure but I think my VacuFlush systems have through hulls even though they are set to fresh water flush.

So two questions.

Has anyone had one installed and what is the ball park cost.

If I an keeping my Vacuflush systems on the fresh water flush, any issues with re-purposing one of those through hulls (if they exist)?
__________________
Advertisement

menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 06:24 PM   #2
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,011
I'd think about upsizing from 100 gallons per day (4.2 GPH) to a 600 gallon per day (24 GPH). We make water when the generator is running for a couple hours per day and are not water misers making ~40-50 gallons during that time. A dedicated through hull? I'd follow the manufacturers recommendations when spending 5 boat bucks at least.
__________________

Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 06:29 PM   #3
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
I'd think about upsizing from 100 gallons per day (4.2 GPH) to a 600 gallon per day (24 GPH). We make water when the generator is running for a couple hours per day and are not water misers making ~40-50 gallons during that time. A dedicated through hull? I'd follow the manufacturers recommendations when spending 5 boat bucks at least.
That's another question I guess. Will this run happily off the 4KW inverter with an end of day couple of hours recharge from the genny?

If so I am not sure I want a 600 GPD system just to aim to get 50-100 from it only running part of the day?
menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 07:14 PM   #4
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,113
My first hand experience is with Spectra water makers. I'm on my second (two different boats), and I'd do it again. Here are a few thoughts/considerations:

- At least the Spectra units require a dedicated intake, minimum size, and a forward facing scoop. I would not cut any corners, and if anything go one size up on the intake thru hull and hose.

- Think about how you will power the water maker (DC, or AC), and when such power will be available long enough to make the desired qty of water. If it's DC powered, then running the WM while underway will make the most sense. This is also when you tend to be in the clearest water. If it's AC, then you will probably want to run while the generator is running. So that means the time in the AM and in the PM when you otherwise run it to charge batteries, make hot water or whatever.

- Consider how much time you have the requisite power, and be sure you can make all your water in that time window. I think a 50 gal/day water maker will be pretty much useless. Our first unit was 200 gal/day, and we struggled to make enough water during our normal underway time. Our current unit is 1000 gal/day and it's great. We pay almost no attention to how much water we use, and are able to replenish while underway every other day or so. A 4-5 hr run will produce 200 gal or so. If you have an AC unit, figure out how much time you run your generator, and be sure you can make all your water in that time. BTW, I've never heard someone say they have too big a water maker.

- You don't want to make water in silty conditions. The water you make will be fine, but you will plug up filters pretty fast. Water rich with bio live will plug filters quickly too. New England and the PNW are both problematic in this respect. The Bahamas are great. I have always found the 2"x10" filters supplied with water makers to be too small. On both units I up-sized the filters to 4"x10" filters and they work much better. On my current boat I also installed a media filter and it works really, really well. As it plugs up, you just back wash it and continue to use it. This past summer I never needed to change my cartridge filters, which is a first ever.

- There is a wide range of automatic vs manual control and operation available of different models. You can save a lot of $$ by going with a manually operated unit. Or you can pay more and get push-button controls. I opted for the later, but that's just me. Pick whatever works for you.

- If a water maker is going to be left idle for more than a week or two, it needs to either be flushed with fresh water once a week, or it needs to be pickled. Keep this in mind when you consider how you will use it. Some water makers have automatic periodic flushing. Spectra is one. This let's you leave the water maker idle pretty much indefinitely and it will automatically flush once a week. All you need to do is supply power and be sure you have sufficient fresh water on board to perform the flushes. This is a really important feature for us given how we use our boat. If this is a feature that's important to you, there is something to check carefully. Parker/Village Marine has teh flush feature, but if power is interrupted, like if someone cycles the breaker on your shore power pedestal or there is a brief power outage, the system resets and the auto flush terminates. For us this was unacceptable since it made unattended operation impossible.

I think that's it. One thing I noticed at FLIBS this year is that pretty much everyone and their brother is making water makers now. So you should have lots to choose from.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 07:20 PM   #5
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,195
Thanks for all that.

What about running an AC model off a 4KW inverter, yea or nay?
menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 07:21 PM   #6
Guru
 
Crusty Chief's Avatar
 
City: Las Vegas/Portland
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Pairadice
Vessel Model: Selene 47
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,172
When in doubt go bigger! Our W/M makes 40ish gals an hour and and use it every couple of days when we run the genny. Don't think I could run it off the inverter as the A/C pump draws about 13 amps and the D/C pump draws about 4 amps. We used the raw water wash down thru hull for the W/M and built a manifold that allows us to select raw water or fresh water to the hose bib.
We went with the modular unit from Cruise RO. We liked this unit as its simple to run and no proprietary parts.
Hope that helps.
__________________
John & Tracey
Pairadice S4714
http://mvpairadice.blogspot.com/
" I can explain, but I can't make you understand"
Crusty Chief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 07:37 PM   #7
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
Thanks for all that.

What about running an AC model off a 4KW inverter, yea or nay?
You can but what you take out you have to put back. Unless you have a large solar system, running off the inverter only means more engine or generator run time to put the amps back. We've had 2 AC water makers. Our standard run is make water, charge battaries, heat water and try to charge what needs to get charged in usually 2.5 hours per day. A dc water maker will cost you a minimum of 1.2-2 amps/gallon.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 07:49 PM   #8
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
You can but what you take out you have to put back. Unless you have a large solar system, running off the inverter only means more engine or generator run time to put the amps back. We've had 2 AC water makers. Our standard run is make water, charge battaries, heat water and try to charge what needs to get charged in usually 2.5 hours per day. A dc water maker will cost you a minimum of 1.2-2 amps/gallon.
OK, so if I am hearing everyone correctly, with a 16KW genny, I should go bigger AC based and make water when I am recharging the house at the end of each day? Planning on ~2-3 hours?
menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 08:03 PM   #9
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,011
Yup.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 08:22 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Sealife's Avatar
 
City: In transit
Country: From USA
Vessel Name: Sea life
Vessel Model: Krogen 42 #61
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 498
Larry is spot on. Only thing I would add is we have a cruise ro sm30 and run it underway alot as the water offshore is cleaner and the alternators handle the load thru the inverters.

Also be aware of ambient engine room temp if the water maker is installed there as the membranes don't like excessive heat.
__________________
Scott

www.caribbeansealife.com
Sealife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 09:25 PM   #11
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
Thanks for all that.

What about running an AC model off a 4KW inverter, yea or nay?
You would need to check the specs on the particular water maker. But I wouldn't advise it. That large a draw will drain your batteries down pretty quickly. If an AC water maker, just plan on running the generator. Otherwise go DC.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 09:37 PM   #12
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,500
Great thread!!
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 09:41 PM   #13
TF Site Team
 
Insequent's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,968
+ 1 for Spectra. I run the 400 GPD unit when underway, but don't need to run it every time. It seems to be about the right size. But if there ever was a next time I would likely go a size larger and install larger filters as per 'twisted tree' outline above.

My unit has a low power mode for running off the house bank, and I sometimes use it if the bank is in good shape and its going to be a really good day for solar power generation (2kW of panels).

CruiseRO make very good units, but the automation of the Spectra is really nice and has been trouble free.
__________________
Brian
Insequent is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 09:47 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
101TUG's Avatar
 
City: Gustavia
Country: St Barth
Vessel Name: Super MAN
Vessel Model: Terranova Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
OK, so if I am hearing everyone correctly, with a 16KW genny, I should go bigger AC based and make water when I am recharging the house at the end of each day? Planning on ~2-3 hours?
yes if you have 16KVA generator for for 1800Gal day that give you 75Gallon a hour the plenty, if you take a water maker with standard HP piston pompe 450 or 1800 gal day that going to consume same power so why don't go for large production.

I really have bad experience with Spectra I'm big fan of Sea Recovery you can go for Aqua Matic or Aqua Whisper DX or PRO this is easy to install membrane with extended HP hose and donc keep on machine (that take to much place)

I try DC water maker that really not good system...:face palm:
101TUG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 09:50 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
101TUG's Avatar
 
City: Gustavia
Country: St Barth
Vessel Name: Super MAN
Vessel Model: Terranova Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
I think that's it. One thing I noticed at FLIBS this year is that pretty much everyone and their brother is making water makers now. So you should have lots to choose from.
this is totally incredible every brand doing water maker I saw that to FLIBS too

no place for every body this is mall market and to much competitor
101TUG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 09:56 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
101TUG's Avatar
 
City: Gustavia
Country: St Barth
Vessel Name: Super MAN
Vessel Model: Terranova Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
You can but what you take out you have to put back. Unless you have a large solar system, running off the inverter only means more engine or generator run time to put the amps back. We've had 2 AC water makers. Our standard run is make water, charge battaries, heat water and try to charge what needs to get charged in usually 2.5 hours per day. A dc water maker will cost you a minimum of 1.2-2 amps/gallon.
we run a 75gal/H water maker on 4Kw inverter but effectively on 3kw solar system but if cloud pass you can see how you such batteries
we going to extend to 6Kw solar system just waiting from stainless steel guy since month to extend structure for panel
can't wait to see how is going with all panel
101TUG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 09:59 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
101TUG's Avatar
 
City: Gustavia
Country: St Barth
Vessel Name: Super MAN
Vessel Model: Terranova Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
If I an keeping my Vacuflush systems on the fresh water flush, any issues with re-purposing one of those through hulls (if they exist)?
yes no problem.
For sure never on main engine or generator
may be on other one like air con if you have no choice but anti return valve can be nice on both way.
101TUG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 11:01 PM   #18
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar


 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,137
Here is some food for thought...

Before selecting a watermaker think about how you are going to operate it. What I am meaning is think about how you are going to operate the controls on the unit.

If considering a unit that is self contained, you are either going to need a remote panel to operate it from, or you are going to have to be in front of the unit. Many watermakers require you to turn a knob while looking at a pressure gauge.

On many boats it would be challenging to find a place to install a self contained unit. where you could comfortably see the front.

I believe that looking over your boat with an eye towards actually operating the unit will result in you being steered towards a type of watermaker and a mounting location.

As far as size goes, bigger is better. We had a 7 GPH watermaker and found that we had to run it much more than we really wanted to. It was a DC single piston unit (katadyne) and although great quality, it was noisy, with a thump, thump, thump sound, for 7-8 hours a day.

We replaced it with a 40GPH unit that we run for 1-2 hours a day and it's noise is not noticable over the sound of the generator.

That is something you really want to think about with the DC units. A boat at anchor without the generator on is dead quiet. If you are running the watermaker at anchor for several hours a day that might encroach on your enjoyment.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.boatparts4less.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 11:25 PM   #19
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
Yup.

What he said. ^
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 11:28 PM   #20
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,435
I'd get a basic model with as little electronic bells and whistles on it as possible.
__________________

Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012