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Old 11-25-2016, 11:04 AM   #41
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Where you need/want a water maker, and where you can/should run it are also important considerations.

Cruising locations and style have a huge impact on how badly you need/want a water maker. If you are in marinas every night, or every other night, you will probably not have any need for a water maker, even if you have to pay a lot for water. But if you anchor out for days at a time, or cruise in remote areas, having a water maker can make all the difference in the world. Last summer we were out for a straight 4 weeks with no docks, no towns, and no sources of fresh water other than our water maker. That trip was awesome, but would have been impossible, or at least uncomfortable, without a water maker. In contrast, when cruising the eastern seaboard, we were in marinas frequently and seldom used the water maker.

As for where you can/should run a water maker, it should ideally be in open, clear water. Places that would be good to avoid would be the Chesapeake, Long Island Sound, and all of the ICW. We traveled from Mass to Florida and didn't run the water maker at all, and I wouldn't have wanted to. But in the Bahamas we ran it all the time. And I definitely would NOT run it in any river system. There is just way too much silt. Also, running in brackish or fresh water requires special attention, and may not be doable at all with some water makers.

So for your ICW and Great Loop adventures, I wouldn't count on much of any use from the water maker, But in open water, the Bahamas, and anyplace north of Long Island Sound, it should work great.
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Old 11-25-2016, 12:41 PM   #42
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In my opinion using an avoided cost to justify a watermaker probably does not work out.

What does work out is that with a functioning watermaker you do not need to conserve.
  • If you want a 20 minute shower... Great.
  • If you want to wash the salt crusties off of the windows so you get a fantastic view...Great
  • If you want to do laundry at sea...Great.
  • If you want to spend a week or more away from port without worrying if you are running low on water...Great
  • If you do not want to drink municipal water with all of the chemicals, and impurities...Even Greater...

What I do is to take a couple gallon jugs and fill them up from the watermaker test outlet every day. That way we drink only pure, fresh water. Water that has never been in a tank. Water that is just water.

The convience factor that a watermaker provides is far greater than any dollar figure can describe. We boated for a long time without a watermaker. Now that we've gotten used to one, we cant imagine how things used to be.
You'r thoughts on how great RO water is appear to be based on at least a couple of fallacies.

One that pure RO water is the healthiest water you can drink.

And two that municipal water is automatically worse for you than RO water.

RO water tends to be acidic and totally lacking in minerals.
Two things that are not necessarily good for you.

"The production of water on ships can be associated with its own potential health problems. Ships can produce their own water by several different processes, such as reverse osmosis or evaporation of seawater. Desalination demineralizes seawater, which can make it more corrosive, shortening the life of containers and conduits. Desalinated water may also cause health impacts associated with insufficient minerals in seafarers' diets or the consumption of dissolved metals (e.g. lead, nickel, iron, cadmium or copper) from corrosion products. Desalinated water may also be considered bland, flavourless and unacceptable by passengers and crew."

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/1...546690_eng.pdf
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Old 11-25-2016, 02:08 PM   #43
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So for those who suggest "just pay for it" is only half the real cost. The other half involves hauling and then getting it into the boat's tank.
No hoses on the fuel dock?

I pull in once a month and get $500 in diesel, dump rubbish and fill water tanks.
No extra charge for the last two.
Full water tanks give us 5 to 6 weeks of drinking,daily showers, fresh water flush toilet and weekly washing machine usage.
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Old 11-25-2016, 02:16 PM   #44
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Wow. How big is your tank?
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:58 PM   #45
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Wow. How big is your tank?
2 x 1500 L in the lazaret - these are the ones we use.
2 x 1000 L in the storage space fwd of that (full but not currently connected)
And 1 x 1500 in the bows connected to deck wash y valve ( fresh/salt)
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Old 11-25-2016, 04:15 PM   #46
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You'r thoughts on how great RO water is appear to be based on at least a couple of fallacies.

One that pure RO water is the healthiest water you can drink.

And two that municipal water is automatically worse for you than RO water.

RO water tends to be acidic and totally lacking in minerals.
Two things that are not necessarily good for you.

"The production of water on ships can be associated with its own potential health problems. Ships can produce their own water by several different processes, such as reverse osmosis or evaporation of seawater. Desalination demineralizes seawater, which can make it more corrosive, shortening the life of containers and conduits. Desalinated water may also cause health impacts associated with insufficient minerals in seafarers' diets or the consumption of dissolved metals (e.g. lead, nickel, iron, cadmium or copper) from corrosion products. Desalinated water may also be considered bland, flavourless and unacceptable by passengers and crew."

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/1...546690_eng.pdf
Bill...

I've had a watermaker for several years, and love the taste of the water that a RO system produces.

I won't drink municipal water. Not at home, and not in the boat. I suspect based on the size of the bottled water industry un the US that I'm not alone in this thought.

As far as the mineral content of RO water and the trace minerals that are lacking, well, I guess a balanced diet will probably supply those.

As far as the metal content of RO water, as your article indicates that is based on a theory of contamination from corrosion. That theory just does not pan out on my boat. My drinking water goes directly from the RO unit to a PTFE free plastic container. Even if it went to my boats tank... That and the piping, fittings etc... are all plastic so no corrosion there. I would also suspect that s the case with the vast majority of recreational boats in the fleet.

Nope, the benefits far and exceed any perceived risk.
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Old 11-25-2016, 04:59 PM   #47
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No hoses on the fuel dock?

I pull in once a month and get $500 in diesel, dump rubbish and fill water tanks.
No extra charge for the last two.
Full water tanks give us 5 to 6 weeks of drinking,daily showers, fresh water flush toilet and weekly washing machine usage.


How much tankage do you have? Once a month? WOW! We have a 100 gallon tank onboard which will last about a week IF WE CONSERVE. And there are no dock hoses at the anchorages.

OK, I just saw where you posted your tankage. WOW!!!!!

6500 LITERS=1428 GALLONS @ 8.36#/GAL = 11938# OR NEARLY 6 TONS OF WATER!!!

Have you ever taken the time to calculate the cost of fuel to lug all that water around???? You are a candidate for a large watermaker
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Old 11-25-2016, 05:09 PM   #48
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To each his own of course.

But pure water is basically tasteless with out minerals in it.

And bottled waters are a bit of a scam as far as the quality of the water in the bottle goes. A lot of marketing has gone into selling people on the idea that bottled water is somehow better and/or safer for you than most tap water.

I'm not trying to tell anyone to not drink RO water, I drink it all the time, I'm just trying to point out that it's not the end all, be all of waters that some may think it is.

Like everything it has its pluses and minuses.
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Old 11-25-2016, 05:37 PM   #49
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The first bottle water - Evian.

Now spell it backwards!
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Old 11-25-2016, 06:06 PM   #50
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2 x 1500 L in the lazaret - these are the ones we use.
2 x 1000 L in the storage space fwd of that (full but not currently connected)
And 1 x 1500 in the bows connected to deck wash y valve ( fresh/salt)
oh boy you cary a lac on you boat... that why you going one time by month to water dock
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Old 11-25-2016, 06:18 PM   #51
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oh boy you cary a lac on you boat... that why you going one time by month to water dock


And emptying over 1000 gallons from a dock hose surely does not make the the dock manager happy. Just imagine being next in line behind him. That is a lot of water. To put a sense of reality to this much mooching, consider that our apartments cost us $100/month/apartment for water and sewer. I don't know how various marinas are charged for their consumption. For example, the sewer charge is normally based on the water meter reading.

Simi really should consider a watermaker
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Old 11-25-2016, 06:27 PM   #52
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Have you ever taken the time to calculate the cost of fuel to lug all that water around???? You are a candidate for a large watermaker
She's a converted commercial trawler designed to carry weight
She also carries 7000 litres of diesel

My mates 65 ft trawler carries a lot more than us, told me the other day his aft diesel tanks alone carry 20,000 litres.

As for fuel burn, we both have nt855 cummins.
He has done the numbers on his using instruments on a recent long trip and says he burns 15lph at 1300rpm doing 8knots
My calcs are a bit cruder using electrical ties on sight glass but my calcs are similar at around 400 litres for 200 nm on average doing 1250rpm doing 8.3 knots.

Both equate to around 2 litres/nm which I consider pretty good for a 70 tonne liveaboard.
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Old 11-25-2016, 06:28 PM   #53
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It's not "mooching" for crying out loud.
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Old 11-25-2016, 06:32 PM   #54
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And emptying over 1000 gallons from a dock hose surely does not make the the dock manager happy. Just imagine being next in line behind him.
I do my fill mid week when the docks are empty or at night at a 24 hour credit card fuel dock.
I have never had anyone waiting to get in.

As for water cost in Australia we get charged about 40c/1000 litres on our houshold water bills so effectively I am getting $1 worth of water but spending $500 on fuel.
I am happy to pay $1 if they ask.
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Old 11-25-2016, 09:40 PM   #55
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We traveled all up and down the East Coast ICW and the Bahamas. Made water everywhere. You need a unit that lets you adjust the back pressure on the membrane to compensate for the salinity. As far as silty water goes, yes it will plug your pre filters more often, that's why you want a pressure gauge on the inlet side of the high pressure pump. The idea that you can only make make water while on open water is BS.
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Old 11-25-2016, 09:42 PM   #56
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I do my fill mid week when the docks are empty or at night at a 24 hour credit card fuel dock.
I have never had anyone waiting to get in.

As for water cost in Australia we get charged about 40c/1000 litres on our houshold water bills so effectively I am getting $1 worth of water but spending $500 on fuel.
I am happy to pay $1 if they ask.


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Old 11-25-2016, 11:10 PM   #57
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We traveled all up and down the East Coast ICW and the Bahamas. Made water everywhere. You need a unit that lets you adjust the back pressure on the membrane to compensate for the salinity. As far as silty water goes, yes it will plug your pre filters more often, that's why you want a pressure gauge on the inlet side of the high pressure pump. The idea that you can only make make water while on open water is BS.
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Old 11-26-2016, 06:47 AM   #58
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We traveled all up and down the East Coast ICW and the Bahamas. Made water everywhere. You need a unit that lets you adjust the back pressure on the membrane to compensate for the salinity. As far as silty water goes, yes it will plug your pre filters more often, that's why you want a pressure gauge on the inlet side of the high pressure pump. The idea that you can only make make water while on open water is BS.
+2. The biggest thing to watch out for is oil. Even a sheen will kill a membrane in seconds.
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Old 11-26-2016, 07:12 AM   #59
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+2. The biggest thing to watch out for is oil. Even a sheen will kill a membrane in seconds.
Yeah but only if your raw water pick up for the RO unit is close to the surface.

There are also oily water prefilters you can use if you are going to be making water in say harbors often.
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:59 AM   #60
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We have used ours in a variety of conditions I never thought I would. Unfortunately some of the harbors I have been in were just "dirty". But couldn't justify going offshore and getting beat up just to make water! Big issue here in Panama is the rain, 4" overnight and the water looks pretty crappy for a few days. After having some "intestinal distress" early in our trip (Mexico), we do not use dock water anymore. So unfortunately we run ours in a Marina environment from time to time.

Hell, on occasion my wife doesn't realize I'm making water and flushes the head after #2, sometimes a cruiser in the harbor will pump fuel etc. in the water upwind unbeknownst to me while it is running (our pick up is deep so we can run it in rough seas). Have not had a single problem, but do monitor pre filter pressures and they do clog up earlier in harbors. $2 problem solved.
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