Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-12-2017, 11:36 PM   #21
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by C lectric View Post
There is no way you got 18 gallons of water in the tank from condensation.

I agree about the filler cap O rings BUT they are not the only way water can enter the tank although the filler in this case was at fault partly. Keep them lightly greased not only to help the O rings but to prevent the threads seizing and they can.

Dockmate was going nuts with water in his tank. Would pump it out and it would refill after the next rainstorm. We have lots of those. He gave away a lot of watered fuel.

His problem turned out to be the deck plate was not sealed to the deck AND the filler hose was not tight to the deckplate hose nipple. The water was running into the boat between the deck and the deckplate. Then underneath and inside the boat the water was running down the nipple into the filler hose and then into the tank.

Change the O rings but also ensure that the hose is tight to the nipple AND the deckplate is sealed to the deck.
Are you describing me? That's exactly what happened to my boat.
__________________
Advertisement

Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 11:39 PM   #22
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Country: United States
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt.reynolds View Post
.....Ran for about an hour at the dock......
didn't that annoy the crap out of your neigbors ??
__________________

Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 12:40 AM   #23
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,822
First thing to do is figure out how the water got in. You have no idea over what time it entered, so it could be 18 gallons over 3 years. Now, it did not come from the tank being empty. It flowed in somehow. Figure that out and fix.

Then get a one time fuel polishing. It's worth it if only for confidence.

As to adding a fuel polisher, if you're just cruising coastal domestic, then it likely isn't necessary or worth it. Perhaps beef up your filters, but a true polishing system is expensive and complex, an Alfa Laval or equivalant. This shouldn't be an ongoing problem, another reason to solve it completely now. Then go about happy boating.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 07:25 AM   #24
Member
 
City: Dives-sur-mer
Country: France
Vessel Name: Balder VIII
Vessel Model: north sea trawler 57'
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 20
Hello,

I had same issue two years ago with dirty diesel sold by an unfair broker in a Dutch marina.

Now, I have new injectors!!!
My system aboard :
- GFC gulf coast filter as fuel polishing system ( F1)
- GFC gulf coast pre filter X 2 ( by pass filters before JD filters)
- Racor bypass prefilters X 2 ( by pass before Norther Light generator)
- last addition: a centrifugal separator ( a small model built in France by France Hélice, it polishes more or less 60 to 95 L per an hour , the machine is running 230 V, no filters or replacment part.
Two other brands (centrifugal separator) : Alfa Laval or westfalia, but they are quite big and heavy for my 57' trawler.
You can have a look on youtube, google "france helice centrifugeuse".
I expect to have more security with these two systems, considering I am sailing offshore in Atlantic...
I should have a day tank, a solution mostly used by fishermen. I have at the moment 3 tanks , one starboard 1800 Liters, on portside 1800L and the main supply centre tank: 4500 L
So run the small centrifuge separator will take time, but there is not other choice for me, I do not want to fit another "day" tank.
The water coming out from the centrifugal separator is coming first in the small tank on the centrifuge and further directed to the bilge engine room.
balder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 07:50 AM   #25
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Personally I won't waste my money on a so called fuel polisher.

After you correct to source of the water leak I'd install dual Racor 900 filters with water alarms installed.

That way you could switch over to a clean filter on the fly if the first filter gets dirty or starts to collects water in it's bowl.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 07:55 AM   #26
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,062
Whether or not it was a deck plate cap oring or not, change them all every year. I have 7 between water and fuel. <$5 total for piece of mind. Also have next year's 7 orings as spares on the boat.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 09:42 AM   #27
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,817
" last addition: a centrifugal separator ( a small model built in France by France "Hélice, it polishes more or less 60 to 95 L per an hour , the machine is running 230 V, no filters or replacement part.""

This could be a great problem solver for folks here.

Any link or other info?
FF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 02:17 PM   #28
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,822
Steve D'Antonio wrote a very good article for Passagemaker on Centrifugal Separators, which are the true fuel polishing systems. They work great, but two negatives. They're expensive and they require being maintained like anything else. They're overkill for 99.9% of boaters and I say that although we do have them, but only on a boat we travel to many countries on and cross large stretches of ocean.

Here's the link to his article.

The Spin On Centrifugal Separation - PassageMaker

We have Alfa Laval. Here's a link to Dolphin Centrifuge where they discuss different models.

https://www.dolphincentrifuge.com/ap...el-centrifuge/

An interesting link to Heinkel, a manufacturer of Centrifuges. It shows some of the other applications and industries. I'm not familiar with Helice, but suspect they may also serve many applications. Heinkel sells four brands of centrifuges.

Centrifuges | HEINKEL Drying & Separation Group |

Centrifuges are interesting and work very well. Just not needed by the OP or most here.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 05:42 PM   #29
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,407
Another possible source for that quantity of water is someone putting water in the wrong tank.

But I would follow other's advice and replace all filler o-rings - it's cheap and easy - then carefully monitor for further water accumulation. The amount you accumulated is too much to be from condensation, so must be getting in somehow. If it continues to accumulate, you will need to step-wise work through the possible entry points. Many good possibilities have been suggested.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 10:03 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
City: Wherever the boat is
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Silver Quarter
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 456
Sorry for the possible hijacking here - is there a standard size (and a source) for the deck fitting orings?
kev_rm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 11:54 PM   #31
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev_rm View Post
Sorry for the possible hijacking here - is there a standard size (and a source) for the deck fitting orings?
The deck fittings vary in size and so would the o-rings. You can buy an O-ring assortment kit which contains 400+ o-rings of all sizes up to 2" for about $20. Most deck filler fittings would be less than 2" It will last you a lifetime.

Available at any automotive parts store or on ebay etc.

btw- These nitrile rubber o-rings aren't suitable for high pressure or high temperature applications, but are fine for this job.
AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 12:38 AM   #32
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: B.C.
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,970
KEV RM
Simply take one of the caps , if they are all the same, and head for a good auto parts store or a seal house. Most A.P stores have a selection of O rings.

,
AusCan
standard Buna N O rings, N70, some N90, are good for several thousand PSI. Used lots of them in that kind of service although the applications were static seals, no movement.

Agree about the temperature though but that is not the case for a deck fill plate.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 12:41 AM   #33
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: B.C.
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,970
NOrthern Spy

You too? My dock neighbour is in Gibsons but that's interesting and unfortunate.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 12:53 AM   #34
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: B.C.
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,970
Kurt

I should have mentioned that people have had water in the fuel tanks from several sources:
--bad fuel from a bad vendor, although even good vendors get caught, so be aware that it can happen.

--engines fitted with seawater cooled fuel coolers have had leaks that allow seawater into the fuel tanks. Unlikely You will have those.

--Vent on the hull sides if not done correctly can allow water into the tanks in rough water. Ideally the vent hose to the hull vent should go somewhat higher than the actual vent and then loop back down to the vent.

--LONG SLOW buildup in tanks with pickups that are several inches above the tank bottom can allow slow buildup over a LONG time untill the level gets high enough that a bit of rough weather causes the water to slop around enough to be picked up.

--and of course accidental fill with water into the fuel tank. I did the reverse once and what a PIA. The only thing saved my bacon was the tank is alum. and I caught it before it entered the rest of the system so the contamination was confined to the one tank.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 07:35 AM   #35
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,817
"--LONG SLOW buildup in tanks with pickups that are several inches above the tank bottom can allow slow buildup over a LONG time untill the level gets high enough that a bit of rough weather causes the water to slop around enough to be picked up."

A tank designed with a high pickup should have a low point drain.

Usually a valve with a solid plug for safety.

Should be worth a look,
FF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 08:21 AM   #36
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev_rm View Post
Sorry for the possible hijacking here - is there a standard size (and a source) for the deck fitting orings?
There is not a standard size per say.

You can get them thru a marine store, automotive store or a good hardware store. And of course online if you measure the old O-ring properly.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 12:56 PM   #37
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: B.C.
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,970
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev_rm View Post
Sorry for the possible hijacking here - is there a standard size (and a source) for the deck fitting orings?

I'll second that - NO, unfortunately. A given mfgr. may use a standard to them size but there are lots of mfgrs. of deck fills and they are all different.





I agree with FF about adding a drain point at the tank bottom. If you have to get the tank opened up to allow a good polish job to be done look into adding a drain point. Just be sure it is sturdy, has a GOOD locking handle ball valve and then use a plug in the ball valve so even if the handle opens you don't get a leak. Protect that drain some how also from an errant foot or piece of equipment smacking it.


Something I usually do after refilling fuel is try my first filter drain. My tanks are bottom feeders so any junk/water shows up quickly in that filter. Gives me a warning when junk appears rather than run to failure.
May not have helped in your situation with 18G but who knows.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 01:49 PM   #38
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,817
Folks that fuel often enough , or on non busy times might consider a form of Baja filter.

A bit slower to fill, but not bad considering the hassle if you get bad fuel.
FF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 06:07 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
City: Houston
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 315
Water in Fuel Tank

All of the remedies, potential leak-points, etc make sense to me and I'll 2nd and 3rd those recommendations (not that my "endorsement" matters...just starting off by saying that I'm not disagreeing with any of the contributions here)

Having said that, I'm a little suspicious of the following:
- the PO's explanation about the tank being empty for 5 months. Something's up there. Who leaves a fuel tank bone dry? Why?
- The surveyor. Nothing came up? Nothing about potential leaks at the fill points or the top of the tank? No comment about the tank(s) or the decks? Did you go out and run the boat before purchasing? It seems unlikely that you wouldn't have discovered that a tank was all-water. I bought a sailboat about 10 years ago and the broker and I spent a good 3 hours running the engine hard (WOT), all sails up and down, stove, head, sinks, bilge pumps, electronics, lights, etc, etc. It was in good shape but still...and that was BEFORE the survey.
- Your diesel source. Is 18 gal not enough to show on your fuel guage for that tank? I realize that's only about 5% of the tank's capacity but the reason Im asking is that when you filled up, do you have any way of knowing how much "fuel" you pumped into that tank? Because if you pumped in 300 gallons, you got the water during that fill-up. Do you recall which side you filled first and how much you pumped per side? It's not at all unheard of to buy diesel out of a tank with a bunch of water in it. And the 'dirty brown water' comment makes me wonder...are your tanks rusty inside? Rain water isn't typically going to be dirty brown. Anyway, I've always tried to buy from places that move a lot of diesel every day. Was your source a place that sells a lot of diesel?


All of this is a good lesson about fuel supply on board. Without a separate tank somewhere on board, bad fuel puts you totally out of commission. Your mains, your wing engine, genset, etc. all go down together. Can be very, very expensive if the water gets to the engines. I don't know if I'd invest in a FP system - that boat's been around a long time without one - but I'd make what's there bullet proof.
CDreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 08:42 PM   #40
Guru
 
Giggitoni's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo, California
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Mahalo Moi
Vessel Model: 1986 Grand Banks 42 Classic
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,544
Look at the top of your tanks with a mirror. Rust from prolonged leaking deck fill? In other words, eliminate that as a source. Should you find the tops of the tanks rusted beyond hope, cut them out and replace them (see my post from last year). I'll second Flywright's suggestion of looking for a failed deck fill. He took on a significant amount of water quickly....at least three or four beers worth!
__________________

__________________
Ray
"Mahalo Moi"
1986 GB-42 Classic
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑβΕ
Giggitoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012