Water in fuel

[C lectric]

Disconnect the pipes to the injectors and best remove them and drain of any contaminated fuel and flush in a clean pan with clean fuel. B low them out with compressed air.. or at least swing them out of the way enough that the injectors are in the open. Take a couple photos to help replace them as they often are fed between each other.. Number each of the pipes in order marking one end that either goes to which injector or comes from which injector pump outlet. These pipes will have a particular order of removal/ installation.

Cover the injection pump outlets with lots of rags.

Disconnect the hose between the lift pump on the side of the engine and the two filters and drain/clean it .

Change the two on engine filters and clean out any of the mess as best you can.

Disconnect the hose between the on engine filters and the injection pump and drain/clean it.

Use a hand pump to push new fuel through the lift pump into a bucket or use the little priming pump lever. You want all the contaminated fuel out that you can remove. Actually an outboard fuel line with the squeeze bulb should be good for this. Just watch the bulb for the arrow to ensure it pushes the right way.

Once the lift pump is cleared and the filters changed then reconnect the hose between it and the two filters and do the same untill you get clean fuel into and out of the filters.

Reconnect the hose between the filters and the injection pump and continue pumping so fresh fuel is forced into the injection pump through the filters and lift pump.

It may be tough to squeeze the fuel through the inj. pump. Do as much as you can.

I think I would also remove and drain the pipes clear with compressed air. Then I would crank the engine so each of the outlets spit out any fuel in them being replaced by new fuel. That's why the heavy rags. I would think 10 sec or so would be enough. replace the pipes in order with new washers at each end and reconnect to the injectors.

Then you will need to do the typical bleed procedure leaving the injector nuts somewhat loose and cranking the engine again untill fuel spits out any remaining air and then try starting the engine which will clear the injectors of any bit of contaminated fuel.
Best would be a removal to a shop for cleaning and inspection but I think I would try first and see how it runs.

Of course as each cylinder fires tighten the pipe nuts up being carefull as the now high pressure fuel can do you harm. Hopefully the engine runs well.
If not then you may have to take the injectors in.


And after all is done change the injector pump sump oil if yours have that sump.

Hope this helps.


Don't forget that the Racor needs to be changed and cleaned well,, the lines from the tank to the Racor and between the Racor and the lift pump should be drained and blown out.

 

[Kit_L]

Joining this thread to see what the outcome is: where did that milky substance come from, and were the injectors damaged? Sorry to hear about this.

 

[C lectric]

Bigfish,
I don't know if in your rush if you took a sample of the contaminated fuel and arranged to send it to a testing lab but I still think you should do so. It may answer or give a good clue where to look for the contamination source.

 

[Bigfish]

Thanks C, did some of that today. Mechanic is coming over on Monday, rescheduled tank cleaning on wednesday... I appreciate your help!

 

[Oil Gypsy]

Bigfish,

Ive just been through exactly the same scenario that you described, water in one tank only. The boat had been sitting on the hard for quite a while. Before the engines were started the racor was checked and OK but after running for a while there was nothing but water.

The procedures described by others (Pete and C lectric) are almost exactly the same as the one I followed, but you should be aware that there is one position on the engine that the fuel lift pump wont work, I literally spent hours pumping to no effect and was about to change the pump when I found out, In the end I used turkey baster to fill the filters through the vent hole and once I had rotated the cam engine half a turn topped off with the lift pump. After the filters were full I disconnected the injector lines and cranked the engine until I was getting neat fuel onto an absorbent pad I had placed over the top of the injector pump. I also changed the oil in the pump after the engine had fired. Draining the water out of the tank took a while, I would drain into a container and then wait five minutes before repeating until I got clean diesel.

Im still not sure how water got into the tank, the boat was on the hard and the fill cap was on so tight I had difficulty getting it off and I've not had a problem since.

 

[Bigfish]

I'm having a pro clean and I think pressure was my tanks on Wednesday

 

[FF]

"Deck fillers should be banned and instead fitted in cabin sides a few feet up.

Proper fuel tanks should have a sump at the lowest point that water and crud collects in that can be easily drained off/checked regularly.

Yes but if the initial purchaser is not savvy enough to DEMAND a better deck fill or more important a proper bailable sump we are stuck with what we have.

2 simple cures might be possible on most boats. Easiest is to install a couple of rings of material like star board under the fill fitting.
That should raise it enough so it is not tested in even a slight rain or wash down tho it can be a toe stubber .

Our system was to remove the deck fill and install a 6 inch bronze deck plate. The fill hose was shortened a couple of inches and a short pipe nipple and std plumbing cap with a 1/8 inch hole drilled in the top , off to one side as a vent..

The deck remains smooth and even if a wave washed down the deck with the bronze cover off no water can enter the tank.The std tank vent can be plugged and the event of overfilling the tank and causing a "sheen" on the water and being fined no longer exists.

A day tank is about the only solution for a boat box for fuel not built with a sump.

 

[C lectric]

Oil Gypsy

I forgot about the lift pump position that will negate the use of the built in pump. However the outboard engine squeeze bulb should over come that.

I just realized that Ski in NC suggested that first in his post,
post #2.

ALso for anyone else reading it is possible to rotate the
engine by barring to get the lift pump mechanism off the cam enough that it will then work.

 

[JDCAVE]

Snip! Already suggested.

Jim

 

[SCarolinaGirl]

Great information in this thread - thank you. We're working through 'where did the water come from in the fuel' as well.

One step I see suggested here, as well in other situations, is to close the water intake to the engine before flushing the lines. Could someone explain why that helps? I'm hoping it will help me remember to do it (by knowing the logic behind it).

 

[rgano]

You are probably referring to the need to stop the seawater cooling system from filling the muffler and possibly getting water into the cylinders while cranking the engine to clear water/air from the fuel lines. Without actual combustion going on, there is nothing to force the water out of lift mufflers.

 

[Bigfish]

Hi Ski! I had two different "mechanics," bail on me after waiting days for them to show up.. Took the boat into a local yard and met a fuel polisher who polished the fuel in both tanks and said their wasn't hardly any water in either tank, Thought it didnt look bad at all. After he left I drained the racor and got almost a gallon of water out of it! Thats why there was none in the tank, and that's why the engine stopped running on the first.. Put in new racor drained the lines from the injection pump back to the tank and tried to bleed the bad fuel from the injection pump but I couldn't figure out which bolts to undo. Opened two and they had oil in them... I cracked one injector line at the pump and cranked her yesterday and some watery fuel came out there.. A friend told me NOT to crack the nuts there so I stopped.
I obviously have a huge hole in the top of my tank as it started leaking profusely into the bilge at around 270 gallons.. I don't know how much was in the tank previously but I have to get that tank repaired or replaced. It hasn't rained much since the first and I'm pretty sure it was rain water that got in somewhere.. Right now I'm scared I've ruined the engine and would really like to get her started and running while I still have clean fresh fuel. I'm supposed to work four 12 hour shifts for the next four days but I'll take off work if you think it will make a difference.. I would like to crack the lines at the injectors to get the remaining bad fuel out as you suggested two weeks ago. Do you think I've totally ruined the engine?? Or is there still hope? I'm not sure which are the two "bleeds on the side of the injection pump that I should be opening.. Should I completely open them or just crack them and crank?? I'm scared I'm going to cause even more problems if I do this wrong... I would really like to get this engine running and plumb in a temporary tank before I go on the hard and start cutting out the bad tank...or tanks...$4173.00 bill for the fuel spill cleanup yesterday has me pretty ill...Thanks again for your help...

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Completely remove the bleed screws. You might as well crack or remove the lines where they enter the engine and force fresh fuel through the injector. Once you have fresh fuel at the injector use the starter to clear the lines.

If you followed my earlier instructions and closed the water intake, and it is still closed ..You have not damaged your engine.

Ill stick with my original statement. You should not have to remove the injectors. If the lines are now clear the injectors will clear also. They do not hold or contain more than a drop of fluid, not enough to damage the engine.

Also like I said earlier. "The engine will start"

Now a little new advice (FWIW) Stop spending money on this project. It can all be done by yourself. A leak on the top of your fuel tank can often be patched and once you find the source of the leak from the exterior of the boat you are halfway done, at least until you feel up to the task of pulling engines and tanks.

Don't get discouraged, you are nearly done. If the engine turns over, it will start. (Also, you have not ruined the injection pump, fight the urge to remove it)

pete

 

[Bigfish]

Thanks Pete! I didn't close the raw water intake... The motor turned over last night... Why should I have closed the raw water intake? I don't understand... Should I close it now??

 

[SoWhat]

Thanks Pete! I didn't close the raw water intake... The motor turned over last night... Why should I have closed the raw water intake? I don't understand... Should I close it now??

The raw water pump continuously injects water into the exhaust system (at the exhaust elbow attached to the exhaust manifold) If the engine is running, the exhaust gases push the water out the exhaust pipe.

If the engine isn't running the raw water will accumulate in the exhaust system and may eventually flood the cylinders, hydrolocking the engine.(Can't compress water so you run the risk of doing serious damage)

To prevent this from happening, many will shut off the raw water intake valve if they are cranking on the starter and the engine won't start. I burned up an impeller doing this so I prefer to just disconnect a water hose before the exhaust elbow and just let the raw water flow into the bilge.

Once the engine starts, I shut it off and reconnect the hose. Changing the impeller on my outboard engine is a exercise in gymnastics. Closing the intake valve works, just open it once you start running on several cylinders or shut engine off if all cylinders start firing and open intake.

 

[Bigfish]

I got my engine running today!! Thanks again for the encouragement. Now! I look down at my racor on the starboard engine and it looks full of water! Never had water in that one before... Polished the 50 gallons or so that were in there last Wednesday, then transferred at least 100 gallons in from the port tank after the disaster on Thursday, racor was clear then ran 40 minutes on that engine to my mooring ball and that was it... Where is this water coming from???? Unless the fuel truck but I doubt that... They are a busy reputable company down here... Anyway, thanks again for getting me not to give up... I was just about to when she started...

 

[rgano]

My bet is holed tank tops and a leaking deck above them.

 

[Bigfish]

Decks arent soft and no apparent areas where water is getting in but that's my suspicion too... Odd though that the water in the starboard racor just showed up within days of the other tank leak...I just ordered a 10gph transfer pump and two 50 gallon drums to put on the back deck so I can pump the fuel out of the port tank then try to find the leak...

 

[C lectric]

Oh man, sorry to hear of another episode.

I've told this story before but I suspect it is applicable to you unfortunately.
Dock mate suffered shutdowns every time he tried to go out. Tow back to the dock and checked the filters. Water. Checked the tank, water. A bunch of work and the water was cleared out and the engine was running again.
Went out again and guess what. Same nonesense. They went through this several times looking at this and that. He was frustrated enough he was threatening to replace the tank. We convinced him that was pointless since that was not the cause of the water entering.

THe result was what was suggested a couple times before but missed or ignored.

Finally figured out the deck fill for fuel was the problem. The screw in cap was NOT sealed to the fitting, the deck fitting itself was NOT sealed to the deck, and last was the hose between the deck fitting AND the tank was NOT tight.

The path was water ran in through the unsealed cap AND under the deck fitting following underneath and past the loose hose into the tank.

Once those three points were dealt with no more water and the boat has been reliable for the last three or four years.

Where I live we get LOTS of rain although one time he figured was attributable to washing.

From what you have said you have been getting lots of rain.

Regardless if you have not yet dealt with the deck fitting, its cap and check the hose below then that could account for the fresh batch of water, polishing or not. At the very least pull and seal those fittings.

When you check the deck fittings also check the hoses themselves for any splits. If you do have water entry like i described above and water is running under the deck fitting down the hose and splits would allow water into the tank.

I will suggest any splits could also allow the fuel leakage you experienced when you were filling. The fuel may have been quite happy to enter the tank with minimal leakage out untill the tank level rose to the point of just starting to back up even a bit.

The splits happened to me a couple of years ago. I found them the hard way. The access was poor so I procrastinated untill one day a had a BEEEG mess and I then had to deal with it. Lucky it was my water tank and not the fuel tank.

I know you have been up to your a** with all the rest but you must stop the entry of any more water or it won't stop. I have seen boats where the deck pools water around the fuel fittings so if there is any chance water will get in.
Even without the pooling though if those fittings are not sealed water will get in to the tank.

Have you checked the vent fitting that it is oriented properly. Not against seawater entry, although that is valid , but so it does not allow rain or wash water to enter the tank.

Unless I have missed something there are only two onboard sources that you should have. Problems with leaks from the deck fitting Or the tank vent mis oriented and also not sealed to the hull.

OR the fuel vendor.

The other source possibilities your boat won't have.


Glad to hear that engine is running.

 

[Bigfish]

Thanks... I will check the deck fittings and the fill hoses next... They sure look secure but it is getting in somewhere...

 

[FF]

Any small vacuum , even a batt one, can create enough pressure to be felt on a leaking tank top or fill hose.

 

[Bigfish]

"batt one??"

 

[rslifkin]

"batt one??"

I think he meant a battery operated vacuum.

 

[Bigfish]

Why would there be a battery operated vacuum in a fuel tank??

 

[rslifkin]

The idea is to apply a little bit of pressure or vacuum to the tank and use that to check for leaks at deck fittings, etc.

 

[Bigfish]

That makes sense.. I may just have to try that myself...

 

[C lectric]

Bigfish.
You now have 3 different although related threads going. Bits more of info keep coming up in each so it makes it darned difficult to keep track.

I will reply in this thread only as some of these bits tie together.

I noticed that you said that the hull tank vent fitting heads were broken off, but have not fallen inside, in the storm. Is that correct?

I cannot say that is your problem but it could well be part of it. Get a couple of clamshell vent covers and cover the vents. Use something like Sikaflex 292 or 3m 5200 to glue it on so it covers and protects those vents. Just clean both mounting surfaces, hull and cover, so they stick reliably..

Aim those covers on a 45o angle backwards. THey can be removed later once other things are in better order and then the proper repair can be done. But stop any chance of water entry from this source.

You may be panicked but untill you stop the water source you will not easily be able to estimate just how far you have to go. Maybe you don't need new tanks but just take care of some problems that are more manageable. Leaking fittings, split or degrading hoses, loose clamps, unsealed deck and vent fittings. Fix those first.

I will mention that no matter how secure the deck fittings appear you cannot tell if they are sealed to the deck. THe screws will hold them in place but if the seal has let go then water will get under. Same for the screw in cap - 'O' rings even if the cap sticks up a bit afterwards. Better than the water.

Seems you have those darned sound tiles to the sole. Try figuring out if they are just lightly mounted and pull a couple off after estimating where the deck fills are likely to come down to the tank. Then try sounding the area to see how high the tanks themselves are. If you can figure that out then drill a hole to allow you to insert the camera head in and get a look.

I doubt the tanks themselves are butted up to the sole underside as when the boat was built someone had to reach in to fit and secure the hoses.

I have one of those things too, remote camera, and it was invaluable when I was doing my injector system repairs last spring. You will need to get the head fairly close to the hose entry for a decent look.
If you can shine a flashlight in there too it should help the camera see better.

 

[Bigfish]

My 50 gallon drums and pump arr8ve today... First I will drain the racors again... First I've ever seen water in my starboard filter and it looks almost FULL! Just from a 40 minute run from the boatyard... After I transferred 100+ gallons from the port tank... There was NO water in either tank or filter before the fill disaster... Will concentrate on the port tank first, clamshell vent covers going on... Thanks for your thoughts again!