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Old 12-14-2010, 11:48 AM   #21
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RE: Warping

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Peter B wrote:

Then, when the boat moves forward under idle, with rudder towards the dock, unlike you'd expect, ie, that the bow would rub against the dock to pivot on, (but fortuitously beneficial to the paintwork, as it's nigh impossible to exactly position a fender in the right place), the boat actually takes up the slack in the line, moves out from the dock, and pivots on the for'd line, without the hull touching the dock.
This is the standard method of getting a boat off a dock that the wind or current is pushing it onto.* We use it all the time up here.*

We run the bow line under the bullrail and then back to the foredeck where my wife holds the bitter end.* Or you can take it around a cleat if the dock has them.* Most docks up here don't which is actually good because with a bullrail you can put the line wherever you want it relative to the boat.

A practice we learned from Carey is to always have at least one great big fender on the boat.* I don't mean a fender a size up from the normal ones, I mean a BIG one.* Huge would be a good description.* We carry two of them.

When we're ready to go we bring all lines aboard except the bow line that has been re-rigged around the bullrail.* My wife holds the bitter end of the bow line in one hand and one of the large fenders in the other.* We have a twin so I put the outboard (relative to the dock) engine in forward and the inboard engine in reverse and the rudder hard over toward the dock.* The propwalk moves the stern out and the thrust from the outboard prop agains the rudder moves the stern in the same direction.

The boat can't move forward because of the line my wife's holding and the bow goes hard in against the big fender she holds between the hull and the dock.* She never has any trouble positioning this fender, by the way, and since she's holding it she can move it to wherever it needs to be.

The stern powers out smartly.* If the wind is strong I add power to the engine that's in forward and often both of them.* We rarely do this maneuver at dead idle.* Usually it takes an addition of thrust against the rudder, sometimes a fair amount, to counter the wind that's pushing us onto the dock. So don't be afraid to add however much power it takes to move the stern out quickly.

The trick to making this work is to move the stern out much farther than you think you need.* The reason is that if the wind is strong--- and we've done this in winds as strong as 15 knots or so---* it will start blowing the boat back in the moment you start backing out.* Also, as you back out, the wind will blow the bow down toward the dock and since you're backing out, the chances are the bow will end up down on the boat behind you. I usually use a higher power setting than idle to back clear as quickly as possible.

So we pivot the stern out a good 60 degrees to the dock or more.* Once there, I put both engines in reverse and back us clear.* My wife lets the bitter end of the line go which runs back under the bullrail (or back around the cleat) and hauls in the end that's secured to the boat.

It takes far less time to do this it does to explain it, and it works perfectly every time.* We have gotten our boat out of a spot with only a few feet between us the boats in front of and behind us with a strong wind pushing us straight onto the dock.* It's one the handiest maneuvers we've ever learned.

This maneuver works great in single or twin engine boats.* Carey has used it to get off a dock in the same situation with his single-engine lobsterboat.* The only thing you gain with a twin is the propwalk from putting the inboard engine in reverse.* But with forward power against a hard-over rudder a single-engine boat can be pivoted out just as smartly.

In the photo below we were being shoved against the dock by winds that were blowing up to 15 knots or so.* It was still blowing like this the next morning when we left and we used the method described above to get off the dock.* Works like a charm.

*
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Old 12-14-2010, 03:43 PM   #22
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RE: Warping

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Marin wrote:

Warping a ship in was a common practice in Puget Sound with the lumber schooners in the late 1800s-early 1900s. The ships often had to be backed into very narrow inlets to the mills for loading.

Marin, I am glad that you shared the way that you "spring" away from the dock.* An important lesson there was the way you and your crew work together.* Each knowing their job.* Easy to see why folks were impressed.* I don't recall if you added this, but another reason for pulling the stern our at a large angle and backing away as far as practical, is that when you make you turn into the fairway the stern can have a tendency to over steer a little* It is a good precaution to allow for that.* As you say both springing in and out will work almost the same on a twin or single screw.

Great story and picture about warping the ship.* Before the Mighty Tennessee was tamed, Chattanooga had four rapids just down stream.* They were called the Suck, the Pot, the Pan, and the Skillet.* The steam boats coming up stream had to be warped to get through the rapids.* Of course that area is now 90-120 feet deep.

Hopefully this discussion will help some of the newer owners getting comfortable with handling their boats.* Plan your work, work your plan, and make adjustments as the realities of the situation dictate-----like Marin applying the proper amount of power for the situation.* Practice makes perfect as they say.

*
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Old 12-14-2010, 05:48 PM   #23
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RE: Warping

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Moonstruck wrote:

I don't recall if you added this, but another reason for pulling the stern our at a large angle and backing away as far as practical, is that when you make you turn into the fairway the stern can have a tendency to over steer a little* It is a good precaution to allow for that.
In most situations I've found that the best way out is to spring the stern out as described, back the boat out and then just* continue to back around in a big arc until the boat is well away from the dock and pointing the way we want it to.* In some cases we've backed out and around using differential thrust and then put both engines in reverse and centered the rudders*to continue*backing clear of everything else before shifting to forward and turning the boat in the direction we want to go.

In some ways and in some situations I prefer backing the boat than going forward because with differential thrust and the rudders, it's more like driving a car in that I can steer the back end in the direction I want*the boat to go*while the front end stays more or less where it is.* As opposed to going foward where you steer the back end causing it*to swing*wide in a turn.* In tight quarters the stern could swing*into something before the boat actually headed in the new direction.

For example in a very narrow fairway, say between two long fingers with boats moored along each finger and*a narrow strip of water between them,*we will usually elect to back down the*length of the strip if the space we're going to is near the*head of the*dock.* I probably wouldn't do this in a single engine boat,*but if wind and current are not significant factors, we*find we*can more accurately*track right down the center of*the narrow strip of fairway in reverse using differential thrust*than we*can in*forward, where any rudder correction swings*the stern to the other side and possibly into the moored boat that's ony a few feet away.

Unfortuantely there's no one technique that fits all situations.* Except sinking.* That always works the same in every situation.*
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:39 AM   #24
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RE: Warping

Marin that was as good a description as what I was attemptingto describe, and more or less what we do also, even to the preferring to back well away at about 60 degress to the dock, rather than risk the stern swinging too close to dock or other boats, by powering hard over in forward gear. The thing I was trying to draw attention to, but clearly failed, was that I found it unnecessary to have my wife up near the bow trying to centre a fender between the bow quarter and the dock rubbing strip, because the bow, in our case anyway, (a twin might be different here), does not actually touch the dock, it pivots on the line itself, even tho that might seem to defy physics, presumably because the forward thrust accompanying the powering away from the dock adds a lateral force that takes the boat out as it tensions the for'd line. I only found this out because prior to our recent paint job, our hull finish was so bad I decided to not bother with more than the usual for'd fender, and then noticed the hull never touched the dock anyway. No doubt someone skilled in vector maths would come up with the equation to explain it, but on our boat anyway, that's what happens, so we don't need a humongous fender - not even a little one. Now I've not done it in winds over 20 knots, but......
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:13 PM   #25
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Warping

Quote:
Peter B wrote:

The thing I was trying to draw attention to, but clearly failed, was that I found it unnecessary to have my wife up near the bow trying to centre a fender between the bow quarter and the dock rubbing strip, because the bow, in our case anyway, (a twin might be different here), does not actually touch the dock, it pivots on the line itself,
That does not work on our boat, nor on the other boats I've watched use this same technique.* The side of the hull near the bow always goes hard in against the dock, put there by both the angle of*pull against the bow line that's*preventing the boat from moving forward and the wind itself.* So with us, at any rate, and the other boats we've watched do this, the fender is essential if one wants to preserve one's paint or gelcoat.* It would be nice if the bow stayed off the dock, and perhaps in some situations it would.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 16th of December 2010 07:14:10 PM
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:47 PM   #26
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RE: Warping

Several times I've needed to spring my boat out of a spot. It was strong current pinning the boat rather than the wind.
I carry two large beach balls and tie them to protect the hull. My boat will hit the dock without them.

The only time I had trouble was when a line caught on a big wood sliver, luckily the boat motion finally pulled it free. It taught me though that if someone asks me if I need help "pushing the boat off" I will say no, but please stick around, with the thought that something can go wrong.

Our boat is a single with quite a large rudder and a lot of power for a slow boat.
To date, I haven't needed to go more than just a hair above idle for this manouver.

Like you noted, most people that want to help are surprised.

And yes, we too produce a large angle of separation before letting go the line because the current is going to push me right back in. A smart back up and get in the clear and my wife & I will attend to the fenders.

A lot of people I see, and I've asked, do not carry lines long enough, nor fenders large enough, not even close, to pull this off.
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