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Old 01-18-2011, 04:16 AM   #101
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Considering the example of a mass of water moving horizontally...Water will always have gravity working on it accelerating it downward. Even if it is moving horizontally when it hits the window, it would take less force to deflect it downwards with gravity than to deflect it upwards against gravity.

Just a thought. I really don't think most cruising boats will ever find themselves in conditions with green water hitting the pilothouse windows. I do see that the forward slant would greatly reduce glare and solar heat gain which might be more important for most cruising boats than a streamlined appearance.
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:28 AM   #102
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RE: Wannabee Windows

I think that last comment summed it up well. As for me, I am now the proud owner of the only (virtual) CHB 34 with forward raked windows, and I'll see how I feel about it. The caricature analogy made by Marin might just be right - or could be it's just a case of what one is used to....?
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:20 AM   #103
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RE: Wannabee Windows

"More like ""I like it".

To what other part of recreational vessels and most workboats does that not apply?

The first set of drawings for any vessel are produced by a stylist, that is what sells the concept. The naval architecture and engineering comes along later.

Because style exists for style sake does not mean it is invalid. Why did you choose your boat? Does its form strictly follow or limit its function?

There is a lot of silliness clinging to discussions by and about recreational boats but this thing where someone calls slanted windows "wannabe windows" really takes the cake.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:12 AM   #104
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Rick,
They were called "West Coast Windows" on BoatDesign.

I don't think anyone should be worried about their safety relative to which way their windows slant. These discussions are just an analytical thing like talk'in philosophy.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:58 PM   #105
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Wannabee Windows

Interestingly, Pioneer is a "Westcoaster" design - west coast of Australia that is.

The fishing boat heritage produced the "wannabe windows" and, while reducing the dash area a bit, they allow more space overhead for radios etc.**Haven't come across a serious downside yet.

Nice and cool in summer too.
Jeff b

-- Edited by Bendit on Tuesday 18th of January 2011 02:02:17 PM
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:21 PM   #106
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Quote:
Phil Fill wrote:

*
Weather they are backward or forward slant the windows have to be strong/thick enough to withstand the water and winds. I our windows are 3/8 shatter resistant glass. So if the windows and frame are not thick/strong enough it does not matter which way the windows are slanted. I would prefer wannabee windows as it would make the Eagle more uglier than she already is.*
Quote:
OK Phil, here you are, the Roughwater 58 "Wannabee".
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Old 01-19-2011, 04:24 AM   #107
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RE: Wannabee Windows

"I our windows are 3/8 shatter resistant glass."

3/8 glass is marginal for a 5x8 port IF the port has a storm cover.

An offshore boat fwd window will need to be far thicker.

We use 3/4 lexan on our near shore ( 100miles out) lobster boat, and our 90/90 has 12 inch ports with storm covers and 3/4 glass.

Liberty ship takeouts.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:06 AM   #108
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Tex, thanks for the picture.


*
I realize 3/8" is marginal but that is what was originally installed.* The salon windows are 36 X 48 and the pilot house 36 X 36.* ***
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:05 AM   #109
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RE: Wannabee Windows

"Hey guys, you're entitled to any opinion you have, but just remember your opinion is not the only valid one in the house".

I think you just said it and it was well said.

Personally I like slanted windows on some boats, really don't like them on others. It is a small feature just like many other small features that make the styling attractive, or not if you don't like that sort of thing. It's purely subjective.

If you want to know what I would call a "wannabe" it is calling a pleasure boat with a carpeted engine room "commercial."
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:04 PM   #110
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Ours is carpeted - with diapers!
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:27 PM   #111
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RE: Wannabee Windows

"Ours is carpeted - with diapers!"

I hope they are the oil absorbent type!*
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Old 01-19-2011, 04:58 PM   #112
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RE: Wannabee Windows

For a second, there, I thought we were talking about "Load Limits"
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Old 01-23-2011, 11:11 AM   #113
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Being new to the forum, I just discovered this interesting debate and predict you can guess where I come out on this. The forward slanted windows in the PH of this AT give it a great personality, and they are one of the reasons I recently purchased the boat. When I get it delivered to my dock this spring, I'll post a real picture.
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:58 PM   #114
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RE: Wannabee Windows

I remember there was a lot of interest in the fwd raked window discussion and I ran across this by the great NA Atkin.
"Notice that the deckhouse is fitted vertically. This has nothing to do with stylistic "quaintness." A house of this type is more practical than a "streamlined" one. Visibility is better through a vertical surface, particularly at night. Rain and salt spray are shed faster. Construction is easier, faster and cheaper. The sun visor is more effective. Interior room can be more efficiently utilized. At any rate, has anyone ever investigated the improvement in performance resulting from "streamlining" a boat going ten mph?"
"fitted vertically" means the house windows are all vertical. I'm fairly certian this coment was made well before trawlers emerged.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:03 AM   #115
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:


"fitted vertically" means the house windows are all vertical. I'm fairly certian this coment was made well before trawlers emerged.
If you look at the typical internal combustion-driven northwest fishing trollers, seiners, gillnetters, etc. made from the first part of the 20th century up though the 1950s or 60s or later virtually every one of them has vertical pilothouse windows.

*
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:47 AM   #116
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Yes Marin and now I'm looking at this a bit differently now. When it comes right down to it why should front pilothouse windows be anything BUT vertical? They even put tail fins on boats in the 50s/60s and there is no doubt we are a very automobile focused society. I suspect wheelhouse windows got slanted when fast boats came about and they found that windows raked back looked better but mostly it probably evolved from car windows being raked back. I recall auto windows were vertical at one time. In many ways we hold up the car as our greatest achievement and in the cultural way it flies fairly well. In the 40s, 50s and 60s we evolved an infrastructure of drive in restaurants to drive in everything*** ...seemingly. So it's not a big shock that boats and other things got styled like cars. The greatest expression of this is the sexy open cockpit "speed boats" like the CC and all the others. So on trawlers the best question is probably why slant wheelhouse windows at all?
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Old 01-31-2011, 11:23 AM   #117
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

So on trawlers the best question is probably why slant wheelhouse windows at all?
Aesthetics.* Why curve the lines of the superstructure to compliment the sheerline of the hull?* There no functional reason to do this.* It just looks good.

Reverse-raked windshields have a function behind their form which is to deflect boarding water or spray down and to reduce glare.* They bring a certain tough, workboat air to whatever craft they're applied to, so that's why a lot of people like them, even people who have no reason in their boating to need the function of reverse-raked windows.*

I believe they're liked by some people for the same reason some people like Hummers.* In the Army, the humvee's design made sense because of the way the vehicle was going to be used.* But starting with Arnold Schwarzenegger it became apparent there was a market for a similar vehicle among civilians who wanted for whatever reasons to apply the tough, off-road, military image to themselves.

Reverse-raked windows on a Nordhavn make sense because of what the boat is capable of.* Reverse-raked windows on an coastal cruiser like an American Tug, not so much I think.* But a lot of people buy Hummers even though the roughest road they'll ever see is the bump over the curb into their driveway.* Image is a powerful incentive in what people buy, and it's a foolish manufacturer that doesn't take advantage of that.

*
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Old 01-31-2011, 11:59 AM   #118
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RE: Wannabee Windows

wow i made it through all 12 pages.
some peeps just word their opinion way too many times

being from the north atlantic region (north sea) where many a boat has the window type described as forward slanted, i think it is very logic.

this type window is on "heavy weather/heavy seas" type boats moving at slow speeds.
the water coming onto the wheel house is not a wave but rather heavy splashes from the bow crashing through heavy seas, the water/mist/rain/snow is easily deflected downwards as such to keep forward visibility optimal.



now this type window is just not plain smart for our type trawlers for various reasons:

it is not aerodynamic, and will increase your drag (even at 10mph).
but mainly when our type boats hit heavy seas, the wave will come up on over the bow, basically flooding the forward deck, and if you had forward slant windows the water would get trapped there and exert a heavier force on those windows whilst regular slanted windows will allow the water to "roll off".
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:33 PM   #119
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Per--- A Grand Banks would last about fifteen minutes in the conditions illustrated in your photo no matter which way the windows slanted
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Old 01-31-2011, 02:10 PM   #120
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RE: Wannabee Windows

"some peeps just word their opinion way too many times"
Hmmmm are you refering to me? I have said what you have just said at least several times. No one bought it. Lets see how well you do. I think you've expressed it well.
Per,** Why does it say in your profile that your'e from LA?
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