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Old 01-13-2011, 01:07 PM   #81
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RE: Wannabee Windows

I don't.

And I don't have aft raked windows either.


Like most of you.


Except in one picture.
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:07 PM   #82
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Quote:
Peter B wrote:

So, on comparing them all, I officially declare the original rear-sloping ones to be most aesthetic, (in my view - and probably Marin's), but they don't work as well as the forward sloping ones would I think. They are a bitch for trapping salt spray, let a lot of sun in, (hence the shade cloth screen for bright days), have bad night reflections. The only thing in their favour is I love the outward opening middle window, (sadly, fixed in later models), and which is lovely for ventilation, and would be tricky to set up in a forward-raked set-up. So do we call it a 'draw'? 'scuse the pun......
Thanks for the effort anyway guys, but hey....wait a minute, I reckon if the forward raked one was in white, and a bit more more rakish it just might.....hmmmmmmm


-- Edited by Peter B on Thursday 13th of January 2011 06:05:13 AM
You brought up some interesting points, Pete.... it got me curious. *The first one here is the raked forward example, but done without wood. *Second is the vertical round from yesterday that you didn't care for. *Third is sort of an Ocean Alexander style, rounded, but with definite forward rake, which brought the top of the windshield out to the flare of your naturally rounded fly bridge.. *Forth is a reduced window version of the same OA style, but with reduced windows done with a line to complement the forward rails, then adding thicker, more classic styled pillars one would expect to see on boats like CHB's. * Working on this helped me gain some perspective on another project I'm have to smooth-out with my own pilothouse.
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:15 PM   #83
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Wannabee Windows

Since forward-leaning windows are offered in only a*relatively small number of pleasure boats, either they are usually not in favor by most*consumers, not an important factor in selecting a boat,*or the builders are "behind the times."

I didn't select my boat because of the angle of the windows, but expect to be pleased*having selected a boat having them lean forward.

-- Edited by markpierce on Thursday 13th of January 2011 07:21:46 PM
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:20 PM   #84
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RE: Wannabee Windows

PeterB, there are a couple of good reasons for the way your windshield was built.* First is there needed to be room to get the companion way opening to the forward cabin with enough headroom.* The other is that on a smaller boat it will give you a longer site line in the cabin and the appearance of allot more space.* In fact, it does give a little more space.* Instruments can be installed there in front of the helm.* On our trawler, we would set a small TV on the port side.* I like the reversed raked windshields, but on a smaller boat you would have to give up a little or extend the house forward.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:55 AM   #85
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RE: Wannabee Windows

I take your point Don, but it has been an interesting exercise, and I must admit the last pic Healhustler mocked up almost does it for me. The other half doesn't like it so much, but females have different aesthetic values as we know. Less impressed by form following function and maybe more orientated to the other way round.....? Any comment Pineapple Girl?
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:11 PM   #86
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Wannabee Windows

While the vertical-windowed mockup of Peter's boat looks okay to me, I think all these treatments give the boat a "Popeye,Toot-Toot" look.* Or as Eric put it, a old guy with his baseball hat on backwards.* Approaching a caricature of a boat. Perhaps if the forward pilothouse windows were smaller so they didn't appear so staring and bug-eyed it would help.

I really like vertical pilothouse windows when they compliment the design and when the windows themselves have some character.




-- Edited by Marin on Friday 14th of January 2011 01:17:41 PM
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:40 PM   #87
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Toot, toot, caricatures?

That photo on the*right with the curved pilothouse front reminds me of the plastic toy tugboat I had when I was four or five.* I remember sailing it in the street gutters when we had a heavy rain.* Toot, toot!
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:53 PM   #88
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Hiya,
** Like this?

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Old 01-14-2011, 01:05 PM   #89
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RE: Wannabee Windows

No quite, RT.* The toy had windows and hadn't been "humanized" (forgot the correct $10 word).
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:05 PM   #90
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Quote:
RT Firefly wrote:

Hiya,
Like this?
Well, not quite that bad.* But the "toot toot" look is fine on boats the design fits, like the famous New York Harbor tugs.* But on a recreational cruiser like Peter's that's where I think the caricature bit comes in.* The windows as mocked up by Hustler don't compliment the boat's lines, in my opinion anyway.

*
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:55 PM   #91
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Quote:
Marin wrote:

I really like vertical pilothouse windows when they compliment the design and when the windows themselves have some character.

__________________________________________________ ________

*

And those are four really great examples of your point, Marin. *RT's on the other hand, a bit more character.
*
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:00 PM   #92
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Hiya,
** Profile view 1/2 way down the page...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Tugboat

Enjoy.* Neighbor's kids watch him on qubo.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:36 PM   #93
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Marin,
I don't think your pic #2 has windows that compliment the boat design at all. The hull has very nice lines and the house looks just like a box.

BoatDesign.net has had a discussion about window rake and I'd like to cut and paste but don't feel right about it and it's [rolly not legal either.
Some of the essence of the highlights were:
Several felt strongly that windows that were'nt raked back were far more vulnerable to
structural failure. One fellow Alaskan went so far as to say fwd raked windows were "unseamanlike". Nobody felt otherwise.
One advantage that was mentioned that we (I think) didn't cover is that fwd raked windows don't allow water to sit at the bottom of the window and then leak.
There was no discussion on how the windows looked.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:44 PM   #94
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

Marin,
I don't think your pic #2 has windows that compliment the boat design at all. The hull has very nice lines and the house looks just like a box.

That boat was built in 1927.* That's what they did then, particulary for local cruisers.* It's not a Lake Union Dreamboat but it's the same idea.* Streamlining and whatnot was not really in vogue back then.* It's not my idea of great aesthetics, either, but in the catagory of "old" as having historic or nostalgic value, it's a very nice boat.

*
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:12 PM   #95
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

Marin,
I don't think your pic #2 has windows that compliment the boat design at all. The hull has very nice lines and the house looks just like a box.
Some of the essence of the highlights were:
Several felt strongly that windows that were'nt raked back were far more vulnerable to
structural failure. One fellow Alaskan went so far as to say fwd raked windows were "unseamanlike".
Seriously???? " unseamanlike".... structurally unsound???

I think there are a number of captains up north that must think otherwise... you either like them or you don't
HOLLYWOOD

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Old 01-17-2011, 04:07 PM   #96
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Wannabee Windows

Quote:
hollywood8118 wrote:


I think there are a number of captains up north that must think otherwise... you either like them or you don't
HOLLYWOOD

*

*
While I don't care for reverse-raked windows on aesthetic grounds, there is no denying that for rough water work they make a lot*more sense than raked-back or even vertical windows.* In addition to presenting a sharper angle to boarding water and heavy spray, thus reducing the liklihood that they will break, they deflect the water down.* Raked back windows deflect the water up, but gravity tends to dictate that what goes up must come back down.* So you can get water on the window twice, once when it hits and goes up and then when it comes back down.

As to structural strength, there is no reason I can think of why a reverse-raked window cannot be made as strong as any other kind of window.* I see nothing inerently weak about them from their rake alone.* But raked-back windows can be hit square on by water curving down on them and thus be subjected to more impact pressure than reverse-raked windows.

So in my opinion, they make all sorts of sense on boats that are going to encounter these kinds of conditions.* Better the windows function effectively than look good.* It's on boats that are not going to encounter these kinds of conditions where the reverse-raked windows don't make sense to me.* They aren't needed to deflect boarding water, so all you're left with is the awkward, unflattering*look (in my opinion).

*


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 17th of January 2011 05:08:39 PM
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:07 PM   #97
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RE: Wannabee Windows

OK Marin perhaps I didn't express myself well enough. Here is what the guy said

" sorry but I can't stand it anymore! Forward raked, some call it "West Coast" style, windshields are better in almost every way - rain, drips, radio room overhead...they effectively make your wheelhouse larger. They can be engineered to be as strong as the surrounding superstructure but they have a problem in that they aren't. A wave doesn't land on a window like many believe, a wave washes up to a window, and if it is forward raked and built for the tranquilness of Florida, or wherever, they will break or pop out when it does. If people don't think that water is a sharp enough medium to break a well-installed window, let me remind them that I have had lumber wash up my foredeck and aft-raked forward windows. I have made a mistake and had equipment and personel wash up onto my windows. In short, I have seen it dozens of times and from my experience, up to and including green water up my aft raked windows, it is my opinion that forward raked windows are unseamanlike. They are a hazard unless mounted better than any sportboat windows, and twice as thick as the standard 1/4" or 5/16" (schoolbus) windows. I have seen windows twenty feet high mounted in steel removed from a vertical mounting. If they were forward raked, it wouldn't be one here, one there, when the seas got mean, it would be all of them. Don't let SeaGlaze or whoever sell you those damned 1/4" sliders - they are waiting to allow large quantities of seawater into your cabin. 1/4" breaks if you look at it wrong.
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:34 PM   #98
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Wannabee Windows

Well, I suppose what he says might be true depending on the configuration of the boat in question. I know that when our hull kicks up water high into the air and the wind catches it and whangs it into the pilothouse windows, the spray comes into the window straight or at a slight downward angle. Now we're not kicking up anything that hits with enough force to break anything so it's not a concern in our case.

But in videos I've seen of boats like salvage tugs and rescue craft bashing through heavy water, the water always appears to slam into the wheelhouse either straight or at a downward angle. But these boats tend to have higher bows and throw the water higher than something like sport fisherman or whatever.

Of course the telling argument is that reverse-raked windows are not new.* They have been on tugs and fishing boats and Coast Guard boats and whatnot for decades.* If they had a reputation for being problematic, the designers, builders, and operators would have stopped using them.* But they haven't.* So I can only surmise from this that they work as advertised.* At least in the boats that are designed and*built for rough water work.* I dont' think the tug and commercial fishing boat designers and manufacturers are using them to make a fashion statement

One factor might make*a difference, and that is the commercial craft designed for rough water work tend to have their pilothouse windows up higher than the typical recreational trawler. Take another look at the crabber "Northwestern" in Hollywood's post.* So any green water that is taken over the bow and races down the deck to "wash into" the superstrucure is going to be hitting a solid bulkhead, not windows.


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 17th of January 2011 08:44:34 PM
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:37 PM   #99
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RE: Wannabee Windows

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

OK Marin perhaps I didn't express myself well enough. Here is what the guy said

" sorry but I can't stand it anymore! Forward raked, some call it "West Coast" style, windshields are better in almost every way - rain, drips, radio room overhead...they effectively make your wheelhouse larger. They can be engineered to be as strong as the surrounding superstructure but they have a problem in that they aren't. A wave doesn't land on a window like many believe, a wave washes up to a window, and if it is forward raked and built for the tranquilness of Florida, or wherever, they will break or pop out when it does. If people don't think that water is a sharp enough medium to break a well-installed window, let me remind them that I have had lumber wash up my foredeck and aft-raked forward windows. I have made a mistake and had equipment and personel wash up onto my windows. In short, I have seen it dozens of times and from my experience, up to and including green water up my aft raked windows, it is my opinion that forward raked windows are unseamanlike. They are a hazard unless mounted better than any sportboat windows, and twice as thick as the standard 1/4" or 5/16" (schoolbus) windows. I have seen windows twenty feet high mounted in steel removed from a vertical mounting. If they were forward raked, it wouldn't be one here, one there, when the seas got mean, it would be all of them. Don't let SeaGlaze or whoever sell you those damned 1/4" sliders - they are waiting to allow large quantities of seawater into your cabin. 1/4" breaks if you look at it wrong.
I still don't buy it.... EVERY marine architect must have their head up their arse because the boats that are designed to take the worst that the sea can dish out all seem to be designed with forward slanting windows. For me just to keep the glare of lights in the bridge at night* and sun that reflects off water droplets on the windows out of my view would make it a must have on a yacht I would have build.

but what do I know... I looked through vertical windows for years!
HOLLYWOOD

*
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:56 PM   #100
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Wannabee Windows

A lot of these boats/ships that you hold up as evidence that fwd raked windows are great for heavy going may be more related to what a person on the cabin side of such windows needs to look at through those windows. Most of these large sea going vessels have big expansive deck areas ahead of the bridge where very important things often happen and fwd raked windows may just be great for looking down on these decks. You talk of spray Marin*** ...why? It's a ton or more of green water that will threaten a well made window and that mass of water is going to be moving horizontally directly at those fwd raked windows. I think fwd windows are most often found on a bridge or wheelhouse that is high up and usually not threatened by waves. But in yachts windows are as they are mostly just to sell boats**** ...frequently/mostly to people that wouldn't know what is good. More like "I like it".

-- Edited by nomadwilly on Tuesday 18th of January 2011 11:02:07 AM
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