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Old 03-13-2015, 02:26 PM   #21
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The 40, 60 and 70 series where truck engines. Light to medium duty.
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Old 03-13-2015, 03:31 PM   #22
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Volvo produces some well engineered engines. But all engine makes require support, none are perfect all the time. What you have to understand is that Volvo has a different kind of support network than just about every other diesel mfg, and it can create some conflicts of interest that may cause costly surprise. This can be a little difficult to articulate, but let me try.

In the US, Volvo actually contracts with their dealer network to not just provide support and repairs like other mfg, but to actually represent Volvo themselves. Unlike other mfgs, they do not actually staff much if any direct representation. You can't really call Volvo to discuss a more complicated situation such as a latent engine defect. Yes, Volvo has a common support number, but it's really just a direct call forward to a local dealer. If you don't like the support you received from the dealer, your only recourse is to call a different dealer, not Volvo.

This arrangement puts the dealer in the position of having to champion the customer. That's what they are supposed to be doing, but not surprisingly they will first and foremost put their own interests first. That's human nature right. There is no tie breaker where you can speak to the mfg directly.

That probably seems like splicing hairs to most, but it can hurt. For example, had a pair of engines that had a latent defect that caused piston failures. The problem started while the engine were under warranty, but continued after the warranty was up. There was a technical bulletin that noted that upon a piston failure, it was recommended to change out a culprit part in all cylinders, not just the failed one. However, the bulletin was not searchable in Volvos system as it was published prior to Volvos online system implementation. so the dealer did not initially see it and so pistons kept failing after the engine went out of warranty because they were not repaired to Volvos specs while in warranty. This created a conflict of interest between Volvo and the dealer.

The dealers position is that it was Volvos fault, not theirs. Not entirely unreasonable. Volvo would just tell the dealer that it was their responsibility. From the customers perspective, there is no avenue to talk to Volvo. You recourse is to talk to another dealer, who has absolutely zero interest in taking responsibility for another dealers issues. This is where Volvos dealer model is so different, than every other mfg. The dealer is contracted to be that layer of mfg support, but it's too much of a conflict of interest with their own role as a dealer to do so. In my case, it meant in the real world that I got screwed out of about $20k of what should have been in warranty coverage because the dealer simply stated that Volvo would not stand behind engines that were out of warranty.

Mine is just one example, but it can happen.

This is why I won't own another Volvo, just out of principle. I got far enough with Volvo that they knew that the situation existed, but even then would not get involved. Yes parts costs for Volvo are sky high, but I think the real risk is that you may find a real life situation where support is just not going to be provided. It's worth noting that the dealer, Coastal Marine in Seattle is not an evil dealer. In fact Denny, their service mgr was about the most honest hard working guy you would ever meet. I say this even after getting the full bend over experience. The real culprit here is a model that at its heart is unworkable and that is Volvos responsibility.

Hopefully this drawn out example paints an accurate picture why Volvos support model will never be able to match just about any other mfg.
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Old 03-13-2015, 05:15 PM   #23
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On one Cummins engine I know of, you must move a motor mount and jack up the engine to get the clearance to remove the raw water pump. Not DIY friendly.
That might be the 5.9 6BTA. However, I believe that if you replace the stock Sherwood pump with one of Tony Athen's SeaMax pumps, that might obviate that issue. (Or, I hope so since I did so).
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Old 03-13-2015, 07:08 PM   #24
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dwhatty is correct. The 5.9 series is like the 6-71's were. They are everywhere and parts are and will be available for YEARS.
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Old 03-13-2015, 08:16 PM   #25
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Heartburn in my future?

I had a Beneteau ST 34 with Cummins 5.9 - ran with no issues.
My Captain made us upgrade to a ST 44 with twin VP D-4's......
We will see as they say........
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Old 03-23-2015, 11:17 AM   #26
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The marinised versions of Volvo are simply truck engines, for example the D4 series are found in the FL4 truck, D6 in the FL6, D10 in the FL 10 etc.
One thing is crucial with a Volvo is to keep correct coolant mixture in all the time, failure will lead to a perforated cylinder liner on No 1 piston where the flow of water from the water pump hits the cylinder liner.
Volvo engines are 'blown' to extract the maximum power per cylinder.
I had 4 trucks in our fleet,a Volvo company car which rusted, an outboard that never ran properly, each one needed major surgery, the trucks only made 120-160K miles, we never bought any more Volvo products.
Non marine parts from a plant/agricultural/motor factor are always cheaper.
Volvo give preferential rates to boat builders knowing perfectly well they'll recoup the money on service and spares.
That's just my own experience, you must make your own mind up.
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Old 03-23-2015, 12:26 PM   #27
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I wouldn't buy a boat with Volvos. Just my opinion...and the reasons have already been stated. One thing I think y'all are placing too much emphasis on is whether the engine was a "dedicated" marine engine. I think what is important is that the manufacturer was the one who did the marinizing. Cummins manufactures their engines as well as marinizes them. So does Cat and Volvo. The venerable Ford Lehman was not marinized by Ford....but still a highly regarded engine. Yanmar manufactures most of their marine engines although some in the mid HP range were farmed out to BMW for emissions reasons.

Walt, your 440hp Yanmars are fine engines. Sometimes you do run into high cost parts though. One thing I thought was interesting is a buddy of mine has a Mainship Pilot 30 similar to mine. He has a 4LH engine...I had the 4LHA.....That "A" in my model number was a lot more significant than I thought(there are also 6LY and 6LYA in your engine line...I do not know if they carry the same weight). The "A" in my case stood for AMERICA. The trade lobby was not thrilled with these engines coming over here fully assembled from Japan. So the "A" models would come over to the US as short blocks and then they were outfitted by American companies. What does that mean???? A raw water pump for my 4LHA was about $500....a raw water pump for his 4LH(absent the "A") was almost $1200. Same engine...differently sourced accessories. I wouldn't sweat it if I didn't have the "A"...but it would be nice!!! All great engines!!!!
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:11 PM   #28
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Another vote for go with the big C if you have a choice. If you get stuck with the V not the end of the world. Whatever you do stay away from the Y and if you want better go with the JD.
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:33 PM   #29
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The Yanmar 6LYA are good motors, The 6LY2A STP (440hp)...not so much. If overpropped at all, the 6LY2A can rapidly become an "explode-a-motor" I believe there are members of this group that have personal experience with dropping valves on the 6LY2A. The boat next to me dropped a valve summer before last on his 6LY2A. One motor was replaced and the one that hadn't failed had a new head installed. One "feature" of the 6LY2A 440 is that the block has been bored out from the 6LYA, the liners have been removed and the cylinder walls hardened. The 6LY2A cannot be rebuilt if it drops a valve and damages the cylinder wall. Hinckley Yachts issued a recall for boats with the 6LY2A installed to change out the valves.

To Yanmar's credit, They stood behind the 10 year old motors on the boat next to me. Once he mentioned the known valve problems on the 6LY2A, they became helpful.

I had a 6LY2A STP 440 on my last boat, I reduced the pitch on the prop to ensure the motor could reach rated rpm plus a little. I also installed an egt gauge to help monitor temps. As far as I know, that engine is still running fine.

I know several guys with Volvos on my dock, They seem to be reliable and run well. They always the win the contest when we start complaining about the price of parts. I thought Cummins parts were high priced, but Volvo makes Cummins look cheap.
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:33 PM   #30
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From what I understand, Nordic Tugs went with the Volvo engine in their 32's and 26's since the larger Cummins engine would not fit in the engine room. I am not sure if there was some redesign of the engine compartment or main salon cabin sole of the 32 at the time, but that is what they told me. Cummins engines are still being installed in many other NT's.
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:11 PM   #31
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Excellent post, I can always depend on the forum membersexplaining the pro and cons, in detail.
BlueYonder, I have the 2006 6LPA? 315HP Yanmar. Have youheard of any issues with that motor? The guy that did my survey mentioned an issuewith a 440 HP motor he had surveyed. Mayhave been the same gentleman since he does work on the Eastern shore?


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Old 03-23-2015, 03:09 PM   #32
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From what I understand, Nordic Tugs went with the Volvo engine in their 32's and 26's since the larger Cummins engine would not fit in the engine room. I am not sure if there was some redesign of the engine compartment or main salon cabin sole of the 32 at the time, but that is what they told me. Cummins engines are still being installed in many other NT's.
I thought it also had to do with Cummins not having engines in the sizes they needed that meet the new emissions standards.
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:13 PM   #33
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The only thing I have heard regarding the 6LP was a class action settlement that involved the the valves on 1997 - 2002 6LP models.
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Old 03-23-2015, 04:40 PM   #34
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I thought it also had to do with Cummins not having engines in the sizes they needed that meet the new emissions standards.
Yes the smaller engines, I presume.
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Old 07-01-2015, 09:16 AM   #35
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My research says both Volvo and Cummins make exceptional marine diesel engines, probably the best two out there in the sizes most of us would consider. Chessie Cummins built his first diesel around 1920 and early ones were for marine (he was a boating fanatic). I am not sure Volvo had made a diesel that long ago but that really means nothing. Cummins has now replaced the 5.9 with the new 6.7, same horsepowers, but gobs more torque, yields notably greater acceleration and just a touch more top speed. But the 6.7 is extremely quiet and has very low emissions, compared to its very popular predecessor. I don't know what Volvo has done lately but I doubt they have been sitting on their thumbs. Their engines are in very upscale boats and that tells me they are also outstanding motors. My two cents worth. My new boat will have the Cummins 6.7 made in Indiana and shipped to France to install in my boat. I would say I am prejudiced, as I am a Hoosier. But I have fond memories of a Volvo 240D station wagon I once had, nuff said!!
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Old 07-01-2015, 09:55 AM   #36
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"One thing is crucial with a Volvo is to keep correct coolant mixture in all the time, failure will lead to a perforated cylinder liner on No 1 piston where the flow of water from the water pump hits the cylinder liner."

This is critical on any new engine where the cylinders sit in coolant .

SCA is required , esp in a high powered unit that rings the cylinders like a bell on every power strike.

Std green antifreez is fine , but it MUST have the SCA added .

Volvo is cheaper for the boat assembler , and the "dont pay till its sold" also helps initial sale.
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:34 AM   #37
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Cummins parts everywhere. Many independent mechanics very familiar with Cummins.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:05 PM   #38
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Cummins powered trucks outnumber Volvo powered trucks by maybe 100:1 or more in the US, this speaks volumes in itself and insures parts availability both OEM and aftermarket way into the future.
+1
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:50 PM   #39
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I beg to differ. The cost of parts is expensive when you can't get them. Volvo has shut the door on many of the older common series engines. No replacement parts being manufactured in many instances. Volvo engines enjoy a good reputation in everything other than support.
By comparison the Ford Lehman is much easier to source parts for.


I saw this thread; did not realize it was months old and was going to disagree wtih Marin until I read my own post.

I don't know what i was thinking. I think an Alien wrote that post and signed my name.

In any case, i totally agree with SOF and can only say

In addition, I was going to respond to Marin and say that to ASSUME an engine is better because it was designed for marine application is truly out of this world.

The better case can be made that Volvo designed an engine that 90% of it's users would die before it even had 10,000 hours on it.

In the meantime, those manufacturer who took an engine that was made to run pretty much continuously, started from a far better place.

At least if you need an engine that can go non-stop for days or weeks on end.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:11 PM   #40
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In addition, I was going to respond to Marin and say that to ASSUME an engine is better because it was designed for marine application is truly out of this world.
As is typical of threads on this forum, you are responding to what you think I wrote, not what I actually did write. If you go back and actually READ what I wrote you will find that I said it was my understanding that Volvo marine diesels were designed for this purpose from the outset but what advantages this might give Volvo engines is something I don't know. Or words to that effect.

I don't mind if what I write is challenged, but I don't much care for being accused of writing something that I didn't write.
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