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Old 03-28-2015, 04:55 PM   #41
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Avoid all the potential trouble and just use filler or sanded wood on the first coat or two (wet sanding).

I once asked if anybody knew what "Cetol" is .. like what is it made from. Don't remember getting an answer. Still don't know what it is. I like coatings w known and predictable chacteristics too. I once painted a wood OB boat w vinyl anti-fouling because I liked the color. 75% of it was missing after my first run w the boat. Didn't adhere at all.

McCloskey's with Tung oil is what I use. It's a soft and very flexible high oil varnish. But there's many high quality varnishes like Interlux Schooner. Determining if it's soft or hard can be challenging as frequently that information is't on the can. In the past it was required to list the contents of a product. I didn't stumble on to McCloskey's. Was taking a class in college on finishing and the prof said Tung oil and phenolic resin was the best so I went shopping reading the contents on the cans and picked MCloskey's because it had both Tung oil and phenolic resin in large quantities. One now needs to ask. Also hard resins can be in soft varnishes .. like phenolic resin .. one of the best.
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Old 03-28-2015, 05:39 PM   #42
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I'd go
1. Sanding + sanding + sanding then,
2. 50/50 varnish + sanding + sanding
3. then 95/5 varmish with the tip of the silk brush always in the same patern without crossing threads.
4. Then, sanding + sanding and another thick 100% varmish coating.
Wich varnish? the cheapest and the most affordable for exteriores. Repeat process on 3 & 4 as many times as needed until you're happy

That's how I did it!
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Old 03-28-2015, 08:25 PM   #43
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If you are in Santa Barbara you will get a lot more sun with higher UV intensity than guys up north. For instance:

Climate Prediction Center - Outlooks: Current UV Index Forecast Map

Monthly Average UV Index | SunWise | US EPA
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:19 AM   #44
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One thing to keep in mind is that the more you sand, the more the wood goes away. And wood that goes away does not come back.

That's why we use the heat gun-scraper method. If done properly with the right tools and the right use of heat, the finish will be removed with no, or very minimal removal of wood. All that''s need then is a light finish sanding--- we use 220 grit paper for this-- and the finish application can begin, with or without the use of CPES, your choice.
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Old 03-29-2015, 12:53 PM   #45
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Good point Marin,
The wood around our stanchions is higher because of sanding down through the years. It's hardly noticeable but when we remove the stanchions and work on the rail it's easily seen to quite noticeable. I was supprised to see it. We now try to limit our sanding to paint. Easily done until one needs to strip. The trick I suppose is to try and make the torch do more work than the scraper and hold the scraper lightly.
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Old 03-29-2015, 01:03 PM   #46
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Eric-- Yes. The heat gun will bubble up, wrinkle, or lift the old finish or paint at which point it can be "skimmed" off with the scrapers.
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Old 03-29-2015, 01:24 PM   #47
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Have you ever used a wire brush for that?
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Old 03-29-2015, 01:40 PM   #48
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Never. A wire brush scratches the wood and removes wood cells.
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Old 03-29-2015, 02:05 PM   #49
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BTW scrapers are not a snap to use. It is very easy to use too much pressure or the wrong angle or both and slip and gouge the wood. This particularly true on curved surfaces like cabin trim and hand, grab, and cap rails.

There is no one correct technique. In my experience the correct technique is a continuously varying technique in which pressure, blade angle, direction of pull, and length of pull is matched to the shape and grain of the wood and the nature of the material being removed in each location.

My wife is far better at this than I am, probably because she is much more patient than I am.
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Old 03-29-2015, 02:17 PM   #50
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Greetings,
A large part of scraper usage is sharpness. Like a dull kitchen knife, you're much more likely to do damage with a less than razor sharp tool. When we did our cap rails, a sharp scraper was pretty well all we used-no heat what-so-ever. Peeled off quite readily with very little wood removal. Left a pretty smooth surface as well. Just a light sanding and Cetol (1 coat marine+2 coats clear). As Mr. Marin notes, finesse is required.
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Old 03-29-2015, 02:43 PM   #51
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Like others have said here a scraper is the best tool for the job . Keeping the rolled burr edge on the scraper is the hard part for me . The burr is what does the cutting . Fine cabinet makers always use cabinet scrapers and hardly ever sand . They get the scraper flat first , then sharpen it and then roll a burr with a hardened round rod . The right scraper with the right burr can remove some material quick and leave a nice finish . I need to practice with cabinet scraper more and sand less .
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:52 PM   #52
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Pack Mule,
After using a tungston carbide blade I'll never use carbon steel again.

RT,
Indeed finesse is golden.

Marin,
After all the wonderful things you've said about your wife I have very high reguard for her.
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:31 PM   #53
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Eric , I should but I didn't know they made carbide scrapers .
What do you sharpen them with ? Or do you sharpen ? I've only ever used carbon
steel . See I need to get out more. Been snorting to much sawdust I guess . I use carbide saw blades and router bits for sure . Are there diamond impregnated scrapers also ?
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:34 PM   #54
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Greetings,
Mr. mb. "After using a tungsten carbide blade I'll never use carbon steel again." Indeed, tungsten carbide (TC) will stay sharper longer BUT one can readily sharpen carbon steel. TC....forget about a resharpen unless you use a specialty or diamond wheel. I used a TC scoring tool in a previous life and as I said, NOT readily resharpened plus, consider the expense.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:43 PM   #55
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Quote:
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Never. A wire brush scratches the wood and removes wood cells.
Very true. But at the same time light scraping even with a heat gun doesn't always get the old finish out of the grain. Sometimes you have to let the scraper take down some wood to get the finish out of the pith.
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Old 03-29-2015, 08:19 PM   #56
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Marin,
After all the wonderful things you've said about your wife I have very high reguard for her.
Well, any woman who can put up with the same man for more than ten years or so is pretty special, I think.

My wife is far more observant than I am, in the air, on the water, and on land. As such, and thanks to her Navy training way back when, she is a great navigator. She has an excellent sense of direction and can relate that to what she sees on a chart or map. I don't know that I've ever seen her not know where we are.

And she likes, or is willing, to work on the boats. Not just the wood finishing but plumbing, toilets, stoves, canvas, rebuilding windows, oil changes, painting, you name it, she'll pitch in.

Which, as every person with a spouse who enjoys participating in the same activities knows, makes doing what we do a whole lot more fun and rewarding.

I tend to get upset when something goes wrong. Being half French, I inherited from my father the French "glass half empty" outlook on life. So when something happens--- we have to shut an engine down underway or we discover a leak in a dinghy (our current challenge) or whatever-- I'm the one who gets upset and envisions the end of the world. My wife, on the other hand, keeps a level head and works on keeping us both focused on solving the problem. Once it's solved, THEN she gets upset.
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Old 03-29-2015, 08:24 PM   #57
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Marin,
Thanks for the wife comments. Chris is very willing too. Excellent look out. Good cook. Bought her a new stove w oven and almost instantly realized I'd screwed up not getting it much sooner. Chris's ability to plan and organize is supreme.
Re your wife and her sense of direction I'm much the same. I feel like I'm on a different planet when I actually get disoriented. PS I was posting when you were.

PM,
No you don't sharpen TC scrapers. I think they are a bit sharper when first used (new) but I don't recall ever wearing one out. Try one.

RT,
No contest .. I'll take TC.

CaptBill,
I would think the wire brush would help w that. Marin thinks the wire brush will leave groves or scratches. Shouldn't be even slightly deep as for any one wire all the others will hold it up and prevent it from going below the surface.
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Old 03-29-2015, 08:38 PM   #58
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A wire brush makes a ton of scratches which then have be sanded out. And wood that goes away never comes back. I tried using a wire brush a long time ago to remove failing paint on wood (not on a boat). Never again.
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:24 PM   #59
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Was it very soft wood? .. like cedar?

Or was it fast growing wood like Hemlock that has wide soft wood between the hard "growth rings"? And I suppose brushing w the grain could easily rout out soft wood. The more I think about it the more I see it your way.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:11 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pack Mule View Post
Like others have said here a scraper is the best tool for the job . Keeping the rolled burr edge on the scraper is the hard part for me . The burr is what does the cutting . Fine cabinet makers always use cabinet scrapers and hardly ever sand . They get the scraper flat first , then sharpen it and then roll a burr with a hardened round rod . The right scraper with the right burr can remove some material quick and leave a nice finish . I need to practice with cabinet scraper more and sand less .
The problem with Tungsten Carbide scrapers is that you can't shape the edge. As Pack Mule says it is the burr that does the cutting. A carbon steel edge can be sharpened and then shaped with careful filing.
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