Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-31-2014, 02:06 AM   #1
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,956
vaccuflush issues

So I'm sitting around thinking just how unplesant working on the Vaccuflush units in my 4788 is going to be when they have an issue.

Tucked away in almost unreachable places

A technology I've never worked on.

Etc... etc... etc...

I'm the kind of guy that likes to prevent failures in critical equipment through planned replacement and or rebuild, and have spares readily available.

So I start looking for a complete Vg2 Vaccuflush unit and realize its something like a thousand dollars. Then I think about what could go wrong with the toilets themselves.

This leads me to wonder why I dont just replace the two toilets and vaccuflush units with Raritan Marine Elegance heads.

$600 each for fresh water model.

Fully self contained. Just unbolt the bracket and pull the unit forward to work on it.

Am I the only guy that has thought of this?
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 02:10 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
City: Edmonds
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 176
Hi Kevin,

My 4788 still has the original grinder toilets, but a PO RE-plumbed them for fresh water. I will need to replace all of the hoses sometime in the not-too-distant future. If you were replacing your heads and related equipment today, what would you use?

Thanks,

Rob
__________________

Robster_in_edmonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 02:35 AM   #3
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster_in_edmonds View Post
Hi Kevin,

My 4788 still has the original grinder toilets, but a PO RE-plumbed them for fresh water. I will need to replace all of the hoses sometime in the not-too-distant future. If you were replacing your heads and related equipment today, what would you use?

Thanks,

Rob
I'd use the Raritan Marine Elegance heads set up for fresh water with the smart controller for watersaver operation.

Thats what I'm thinking of doing with my vaccuflush units. Preventative replacement before I have problems.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 02:47 AM   #4
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
I'd use the Raritan Marine Elegance heads set up for fresh water with the smart controller for watersaver operation.

Thats what I'm thinking of doing with my vaccuflush units. Preventative replacement before I have problems.
Kevin, we have that unit onboard- it's super quiet, easy to work on, and makes Kathy very happy.

My dock neighbor has a Vacuflush and hates it.
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 02:59 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
City: Edmonds
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 176
Just watched a YouTube vid on the Raritan. It looks really good. So I would just replace the two heads (and the hoses because they are almost 20 years old) and nothing else, right?
Robster_in_edmonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 06:03 AM   #6
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,372
Kevin

What issues are you having with current units? Replace one and see what you think may be an option. BTW, my two VFs work fine.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 07:28 AM   #7
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,802
The VFs are very simple and very reliable. Three of them, each a separate system, on the Hatteras. We lived aboard full time over five years and heavy use for 1 1/2 years after that. The only thing I ever did was remediate a bad installation by the PO on one of them, and even that took a few years to evidence its effects. The biggest mistake people make is not flushing enough water through these, especially any sort of solids including TP. Follow the manual and all is well, unless the installation is not done per their specs.

When you say the components are not reachable, what exactly does that mean? The most important one is the pump. I have to admit, all of my systems were extremely accessible, thing is, I never needed to.

Personally, I'd use them correctly rather than take the time and effort and money to remove them and replace. That job alone is more hassle than a properly used VF system will cause you in your lifetime.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 07:28 AM   #8
Guru
 
timjet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,905
My 2 16 yo VF's work fine too. I came from a pump type on my sailboat so I thought the VF were great. What's wrong with the VF units and why wouldn't you just maintain them? I think spares are easy to get.
__________________
Tim
Tampa Bay
Carver 355 ACMY Twin Cummins Diesels Sold
timjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 07:43 AM   #9
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,802
I should note that my VFs were installed about 3 years before I bought the boat, and had been used heavily by the PO, who entertained a lot.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 08:56 AM   #10
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster_in_edmonds View Post
Hi Kevin,

My 4788 still has the original grinder toilets, but a PO RE-plumbed them for fresh water. I will need to replace all of the hoses sometime in the not-too-distant future. If you were replacing your heads and related equipment today, what would you use?

Thanks,

Rob
If the converted heads are later model Raritan centrifugal discharge models and the conversion removed the raw water pump, you wouldn't gain much, if anything in terms of performance (including noise reduction) with most of the new head designs. They're "grinders" with centrifugal discharge in a nice wrapping. If raw water flush, they use a diaphragm intake pump instead of the noisy, power hungry impellor of the older models...and that's about it in terms of differences. I'd keep the old heads and install the new hose such that you could easily pull out the old units at a later date and install a new design when the time comes.
Underway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 09:11 AM   #11
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post

Am I the only guy that has thought of this?
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Unless you just hate the Vacuflushes for some reason. There is not much to the Vacuflushes as far as routine maintain goes. Replace the duck bill valves ever few years or so located at the pumps and then replace the seals in the toilets from time to time. And as George said use the right amount of water when you flush.

Also I find it helps to flush a good full bowl of clean water through the system once a month or so just to flush through anything bits of stuff that may get stuck in the lines or duck bill valves.

It's a good system that is pretty low maintiance and trouble free.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 09:26 AM   #12
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster_in_edmonds View Post
Just watched a YouTube vid on the Raritan. It looks really good. So I would just replace the two heads (and the hoses because they are almost 20 years old) and nothing else, right?
Yes, thats all it would take. Eliminate the Vaccuflush pump units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Kevin

What issues are you having with current units? Replace one and see what you think may be an option. BTW, my two VFs work fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timjet View Post
My 2 16 yo VF's work fine too. I came from a pump type on my sailboat so I thought the VF were great. What's wrong with the VF units and why wouldn't you just maintain them? I think spares are easy to get.

I'm not having any problems with my Vaccuflush units at this time. They work just fine.

This thought process started when I started looking for a spare unit so that I could quickly resolve a issue when it does arise.

When I saw the cost of a spare unit I started thinking about replacement.

Some people have a maintenance philosophy of fixing things when they break. I would rather replace older equipment on a planned basis. I find that it makes for less "emergencies" on board. In this I'm trying to avoid a toilet full of somebodies poo to deal with.

My Vaccuflush units are the VG2 type. They are 13 years old. Someday, probably sooner rather than later one of these units is going to go out, and it wont be pretty when it does.

I could remove one, rebuild it with a new (and upgraded) motor, duckbills, bellows, etc... I think those parts would run into the $350-$400 range or thereabouts.

Or I could spend $600 and get a newer technology water saving marine head and eliminate this unit from my boat.

Those are my choices. Rebuild or replace?
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 09:53 AM   #13
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Has anybody heard anything about Tecma's they seem use them on most of the newer Nordies. We have two Raritan heads which I'm not sure of the models, but they work great! One thing to note though if you have a handle like the one pictured below make sure you service the spring every once and awhile, if you don't they'll start sticking. We had ours overflow because it stuck.Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1406814730.571264.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	51.1 KB
ID:	31685
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 09:57 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
City: Anacortes
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 301
Mine are original (rebuilt) Mansfield vacuflush, 30 years and going strong. I'd suggest rebuilding a bowl ring and duck bills. It will cost you Under a hundred bucks, about an hour the first time and will allow you to make more rational decisions. I'm in no hurry to replace mine, they are one of the most reliable things on my boat.
ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 10:01 AM   #15
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4712 View Post
Has anybody heard anything about Tecma's they seem use them on most of the newer Nordies. We have two Raritan heads which I'm not sure of the models, but they work great! One thing to note though if you have a handle like the one pictured below make sure you service the spring every once and awhile, if you don't they'll start sticking. We had ours overflow because it stuck.Attachment 31685
Oliver

From the photo your unit looks like a Raritan Marine Elegance head.

It appears to be siliconed to the wall. When it needs servicing you'll have to cut out that silicone and pull the unit forward to access the parts which are behind it.

Thats the only thing I do not like, but they made unbolting it easy.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 10:46 AM   #16
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,802
Quote:
Someday, probably sooner rather than later one of these units is going to go out, and it wont be pretty when it does.
Tearing out the current systems, with the attendant re-hosing, and installing the new one, is going to be way, way, less pretty than any potential repair. Take care of these things and they will take care of you. I spent much less time futzing with these toilets than I ever did over the same period of time with toilets at our various land-based homes.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 11:16 AM   #17
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,920
I can understand that someone who lives in AK and has a system where a single failure point can make him resort to using a bucket...would want a bulletproof system or one that has redundancy or a system that allows the toilets to operate independently.

I set mine up to never put me in a bucket situation as a full time live aboard...

The only thing that can malfunction on my system (Electroscan not included) is a macerator pump...and I have 3 in the system and a spare...so the chances of me being "toiletless" is almost zero (yes some swapping could be required but in less than 1/2hour I'd have something back in business and thse odds are long that I would ever have to do that.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 11:21 AM   #18
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
I have had V Flush heads on the last two boats.. I have not seen any reason to ever change the units.. they work great and are low maintenance if you use enough water to flush them. The system is pretty simple.... just use enough water .. preferably fresh to limit the lime scale.

HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 11:28 AM   #19
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,920
I think like many boat systems...there's the 80 percent or so of people that have no or few problems...then there's the horror stories...whether self induced or not...they still work their way into the fleet.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 12:15 PM   #20
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4712 View Post
Has anybody heard anything about Tecma's they seem use them on most of the newer Nordies.
Tecmas are very good heads. They will pump both vertically and horizontally better then most any other head out there.
__________________

Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012