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Old 01-14-2019, 03:51 PM   #1
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USS Fitzgerald and USS McCain collisions

Some articles with new public info on the destroyer collisions:


https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...t-you-to-read/


https://www.defensenews.com/breaking...igations-find/
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:24 PM   #2
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"The McCainís steering configuration was changed five times in the roughly three minutes before the collision, according to the Navy report.

By the time the aft steering was manned and the sailor on the bridge fixed the speed issue that was forcing McCain left of track, it was too late."
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:18 PM   #3
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“ low morale and disfunctional chief’s mess” tells me enough and they should feel the rath of the UCMJ.
CHIEF’S lead the way has been the tradition of the USNavy, no excuses.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:39 PM   #4
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In a foxhole the value of emotional intelligence and political correctness is yours to determine.
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:30 PM   #5
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“ low morale and disfunctional chief’s mess” tells me enough and they should feel the rath of the UCMJ.
CHIEF’S lead the way has been the tradition of the USNavy, no excuses.
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The military started seriously eroding the Chief Petty Officer leadership roles back in the mid 80s....by 2000, in the USCG I saw leadership as a checklist method rather than exerience for both good midlevel O's and CPO ranks.
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:30 PM   #6
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It's sad that we put young men and women in such situations. We talk about looking after them and our veterans but it's mostly just lip service.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:01 PM   #7
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What we allow, we ultimately teach.


We have lowered the standard so far that the young sailors who have never been in battle believe this low standard is just that...the standard.



Sad
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:43 PM   #8
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What we allow, we ultimately teach.


We have lowered the standard so far that the young sailors who have never been in battle believe this low standard is just that...the standard.



Sad
It is the standard. The Navy can claim they have higher standards, but those are only on paper. These are the ones in practice. When you consistently allow a certain level of training and performance, then you've made that the de factor standard. Very sad.

Businesses do the same every day, one set of policies in writing but quite a different set in practice. The big difference is that most businesses don't deal in situations where lives are at risk.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:37 AM   #9
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It is the standard. The Navy can claim they have higher standards, but those are only on paper. These are the ones in practice. When you consistently allow a certain level of training and performance, then you've made that the de factor standard. Very sad.

Businesses do the same every day, one set of policies in writing but quite a different set in practice. The big difference is that most businesses don't deal in situations where lives are at risk.
I’ve noticed that with performance grading. When you are grading things you say aren’t a priority, and not grading things that you say are a priority, you’ve just changed the priorities.

I.e., we aren’t going to grade you on customer service, which is a priority, but we are going to grade you on filling out your TPS sheets, which isn’t a priority.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:32 AM   #10
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There are over 400 ships in the fleet. These ships all have there own indivdual co’s and crews which do compete with other ships for excellence in there ability to wage war. They live fire there weapons, etc. The training each sailor and officer receives begins in navy school’s, the training is honed by real shipboard duty. We have all watched on tv the launching of aircraft and tomahawk missles during the gulf war’s. Yes there are indivdual ship commands that did not maintain the standards set by the rest of the fleet. The navy will releave for cause those co’s and crew members guilty of derelict, some with demotion and or brig time, some booted out with less than honorable discharges.
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:23 PM   #11
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...I.e., we arenít going to grade you on customer service, which is a priority, but we are going to grade you on filling out your TPS sheets, which isnít a priority.
I used to work in a call center where operators where rated by how long it took to handle customer complaints. A consistantly below average employee all of a sudden had the best scores..... He figured out if you just hang up on callers your average call time drops.

Metrics can be great tools, but only if used properly.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:12 PM   #12
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What HiDHo said - particularly #3.

Former SCPO
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:41 PM   #13
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ď low morale and disfunctional chiefís messĒ tells me enough and they should feel the rath of the UCMJ.
CHIEFíS lead the way has been the tradition of the USNavy, no excuses.
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Well put. Bravo Zulu Master Chief! DivOs, Dept Heads, XO, CO were continually knocking at the Chief's Mess door (out of respect/tradition) for their Chief's leadership. If it was not there we/they were in deep kimchi. - FCC (SW). 12 years (sea time) riding Aegis Cruisers.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:11 PM   #14
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I used to work in a call center where operators where rated by how long it took to handle customer complaints. A consistantly below average employee all of a sudden had the best scores..... He figured out if you just hang up on callers your average call time drops.

Metrics can be great tools, but only if used properly.
Kind of like Stalin's 5 year plans. You got sent to the gulag if you didn't produce 10 million pairs of boots. So you make 10 million size five boots. Done.
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Old 01-23-2019, 10:04 AM   #15
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I just came across this article that suggests the running lights on the ship the Fitz collided with may have been incorrect.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-..._source=clavis

Also this article that states the owners of the other ship will pay the US Gov't $27 (million but that its not an admission of fault)

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...ald-collision/
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