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Old 12-04-2019, 10:51 AM   #1
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Using two anchors

Hi,

I have a double shoot windlass situation and have two anchors that I'd like to put there.
A Fortress 45 lb
and Rocna 55 lb.


First goal is just to store both of them there, but be able to primarily use the Rocna.


Second goal is to use both with a Bahamian tie, or pull on back for a stern anchor.


Questions:
How will they fit so the primary can come on and off easily? Pictures would be great.
Is there some way that I could use the windlass (or perhaps just the crank winch part of it) to pull up the second anchor? First anchor is all chain and second will be all rope.


Additional tips on using or storing would be great!
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:40 AM   #2
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Your Rocna not doing good enough?
Why not a bigger or better primary?
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Old 12-04-2019, 02:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Your Rocna not doing good enough?
Why not a bigger or better primary?

Nothing wrong with either anchor. Getting info to have both available for use. Sometimes ya need two.


Storage is the biggest issue. I'm just not sure how both will fit.
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Old 12-04-2019, 03:09 PM   #4
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Can’t imagine using or needing two. I’ve never needed or used two.

What on earth are you doing that requires two.
No being a smart butt I just wanna know.

Re the above I’d use your Rocna55 all the time and pull your spare out of the Laz or wherever. For your stated use you might consider a 25lb Supreme for a spare. They may still be on sale at WM. Great short scope performance and holding power and the 25 weighs 28lbs. Can handle by hand. For a new anchor the ARA Excel is better than the Supreme and will set in a very wide range of seafloors. And you may consider a new SARCA in a large size. Would do almost anything.

But I’d shy away from multiple anchors. Kinda like a pet that’s just too much trouble.
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Old 12-04-2019, 03:14 PM   #5
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Actually you very rarely need two anchors and maybe never. I have used two anchors exactly twice in twenty years of boating and probably 500 nights at anchor, 50 of which were in the Bahamas but no Bahamian moors.

The first time was off of Catalina island where I used the anchor on the stern to keep the bow into the swells which were 90 degrees to the wind, a common situation in Catalina. I pulled the spare Fortress aft to use from the stern.

The second time I used two anchors from the bow in a V formation to improve holding in a heavy blow. Didn't help much and the single big anchor would have worked fine.


These were in different boats, but the best arrangement was a vertical windlass with a smooth capstan on top of the chain gypsy. The second anchor was a Fortress and had 50' of 1/4" G4 chain so I used the capstan to bring it up until the chain and pulled it up by hand after that. Worked fine. I also used the Fortress as a kedge anchor and could pull 90 degrees sideways easily with the vertical capstan. A vertical windlass gives you much better pulling geometry.

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Old 12-04-2019, 03:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Canít imagine using or needing two. Iíve never needed or used two.

What on earth are you doing that requires two.
No being a smart butt I just wanna know.

Re the above Iíd use your Rocna55 all the time and pull your spare out of the Laz or wherever. For your stated use you might consider a 25lb Supreme for a spare. They may still be on sale at WM. Great short scope performance and holding power and the 25 weighs 28lbs. Can handle by hand. For a new anchor the ARA Excel is better than the Supreme and will set in a very wide range of seafloors. And you may consider a new SARCA in a large size. Would do almost anything.

But Iíd shy away from multiple anchors. Kinda like a pet thatís just too much trouble.



Anchoring in a current/tide is one reason for two..... used it many times and works fine.


Also, angling the boat if the wind is lining you up against the waves. Or, when anchoring behind the Statue of Liberty, the wake of the tour boats was at an angle to the current, so without two, ya bounce around til they go home. Or, you want the boat in a particular position.... did that the other day when we watched a boat parade and wanted the cockpit to face the parade (little current or wind).



But, 95% of the time, one does fine.
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Old 12-04-2019, 03:16 PM   #7
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Again, the biggest issue is just storing two. Used to store the second one in the lazarrette, but a PITA.
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Old 12-04-2019, 03:21 PM   #8
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Having a second anchor on the bow with easy windlass use would come in handy for a hammerlock moor if you've got a boat that's prone to yawing. Set 1 anchor, then once in a good position, just drop the other one at short scope. Being able to just power it down and back up with the windlass would make it probably the lowest effort solution to reducing yawing.
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:05 PM   #9
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Thanks Seevee,
I could actually use two myself after pondering your situation.

I’ve shy’d away from anchorages open to channels because I was afraid I would eventually be broadside to a wake from a passing boat at night. Could be a big wake too. A bow and stern anchor may prevent that. But probably just reduce the chances significantly. I have a bungi beach rode that may help keep the desired alignment. Possibilities .....
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:27 PM   #10
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Iíve needed two on more than one occasion. And one time it was needed NOW and having it at the ready saved me.
Also used two just to be secure on several occasions. Not all holding ground is good.
Iíll post up some pics of how I store two on the pulpit tomorrow when I get home from my mini getaway at treasure island
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:57 PM   #11
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See if your windlass maker offers an optional capstan
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Old 12-04-2019, 05:11 PM   #12
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You can spring your anchor line to change attitude to avoid uncomfortable rolling.

-> Pull in 10-15 feet of scope
-> Tie a rolling hitch to the rode
-> Redeploy the 10-15 ftt of scope.
-> run the spring line hitched to your anchor back to a midship cleat
-> haul on the spring line until you are pointing in the desired direction.

A stern anchor is more complicated to deploy and retrieve. Besides the springing on the anchor is usually as temporary as the wind and tide. A spring line is easier to tune and breakdown.

I've been using Rocna's for over ten years. Never had a problem with reversing tides and even severe thunderstorms and one tropical storm that had us sitting opposing the direction the anchor was set by 180 degrees.

About the only reason for a stern is if you are limited in your swing radius, where the swing radius is lower than an acceptable amount of scope.

I keep one for that reason. It sits in the bilge (lazerette in front of the lower helm). I haven't used a stern anchor in at least 12 years. That was because the only space to anchor was in shallow water with the wind blowing off of the beach. IF the wind turned, I'd be ON the beach.
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Old 12-04-2019, 06:03 PM   #13
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SeeVee wrote;
“Again, the biggest issue is just storing two. Used to store the second one in the lazarrette, but a PITA.”

An easy way to use an extra anchor on the bow is to run the chain out through the brail on the bow and back on deck .. secured. If you want it almost instantly deployable you can secure it to the Fortress or Danforth flat on deck as was done commonly for many decades on yachts well above 50’ utilizing a small tube steel crane. You then aren’t burdened to look though an anchor to see debris in the water. Visibility has real value.
I often keep my dedicated primary anchor this way especially if it sits flat on the foredeck like a Danforth or SARCA. You could trip over the latter haha.

Only if you really need two anchors on the bow and of course if you don’t need them you don’t need them on the bow. Unless of course you consider the Rocna and/or the Fortress a work of art that needs to be appreciated. Both IMO are a bit too agricultural looking to play that role.
But I’m think’in somebody could think of a safety gig the extra anchor could perform.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:30 PM   #14
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I haven’t used two anchors simultaneously, but I do have two primary-anchors. The Spade anchor is set up with all chain, and runs off the chain gypsy side of my Tigres windlass.

The other anchor is an Al alloy Excell anchor, set up with about 30 feet of chain and 320 feet of brait. That anchor comes apart into two pieces and lives atop its rode in the second anchor locker. I have 6” deck openings into each anchor locker, and can reach the end of the second rode and pull it up. Because the Excell anchor is Al alloy, it’s light enough to easily carry up on the bow for attachment to the short chain (properly threaded through the bow roller first). I can pull up the chain or deploy the chain by hand, then use the rope drum to deploy or retrieve more rode as needed.

I have two primary setups because I boat solo and often in areas that have no docks.... (I tried hanging anchor #2 off the bow, but it interfered with the bridle when anchor #1 was used.)
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
You then aren’t burdened to look though an anchor to see debris in the water. Visibility has real value.
This one is very much boat dependent. On my boat, for example, due to how the pulpit and anchor roller is built and placed, removing the anchor from the pulpit makes no difference in visibility at all. It's the fiberglass pulpit the roller sits in that you'd be trying to look through, not the anchor itself. Plus, from the helm, you're looking higher than the pulpit anyway (top of the pulpit is about 6 feet off the water, sitting at the helm, my eyes are about 10.5 feet off the water).

On a boat with a low helm position relative to the bow (like yours) and a tall anchor (and no bulky pulpit to block visibility with the anchor removed), then there might be a significant difference.
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seevee View Post
I have a double shoot windlass situation and have two anchors that I'd like to put there.
A Fortress 45 lb
and Rocna 55 lb.

Questions:
How will they fit so the primary can come on and off easily? Pictures would be great.
Is there some way that I could use the windlass (or perhaps just the crank winch part of it) to pull up the second anchor? First anchor is all chain and second will be all rope.

Might be something where you just have to do a trial mount to see if it'll work. 45-lb Fortress (47, on the Fortress website) is an FX-85, and it's huge. Stock or even flukes might interfere with launching/recovering the Rocna, but a trial mount could help you decide.

I'm assuming you already own the FX-85? Or if not, I suspect an FX-55 (also huge, but slightly less so) would very likely be an adequate storm anchor for your boat. And still might (or not) interfere with the Rocna.

If you have a windlass with both chain gypsy and rope capstan, you could use the chain wheel for the Rocna, and the capstan for a rope/chain rode on the Fortress. Depending on how much chain, you'd only need to pull that length by hand... If your windlass doesn't have the optional capstan, it might be an option you can install? (I think our Maxwell RC would allow doing that, but we don't have overhead clearance for the additional height.)

Wish we had a two-anchor pulpit... I'd really prefer to be able to launch our Fortress in about 30 seconds if necessary... but as it is, putting the thing together is about a half-hour job...

-Chris
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:47 AM   #17
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I removed my pulpit one winter and set it up on saw horses in the garage and modified it to hold both anchors.
Obviously I also bought another anchor roller. And made some other mods to accept anchor number two and itís rode. Iíll post pics later.
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:15 AM   #18
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In my trips north, I have only used one anchor, a 77lb Rocna. I do have a a 50lb fortress which is my spare and is kept in the cockpit.
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:18 PM   #19
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Pictures of how I mounted 2 anchors.
Top pic is original with a small 2nd anchor mounted on the rail.
Next 2 show the pulpit in the garage being modified. OOps looks like I didn't upload one picture.
Last 2 show them on the boat. Sorry these were the best ones I could find in my files.
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:26 PM   #20
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This should be pic #2 in my post above
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