Using household plumbing on a boat

[psneeld]

Gee, my RV head that has worked flawlessly for 5 years only cost a bit over $100.....is porcelain and flushes great, .....ven has the anti siphon built in even though mine uses the salt water system but there if I switch back.

 

[swampu]

Here is the picture of the grinder tank

 

[HopCar]

A modern household toilet might work well on a boat that was designed for it. A retrofit would probably be harder.

A modern low flush toilet will use about a gallon and a half of fresh water per flush for solids and about a gallon for liquid waste. I don't think you'd want to use raw water to flush. Keeping a tank of raw water on the boat that vents inside would be a smell problem. The water will also slosh out of the tank when the boat gets lively.

I guess you could use commercial flush valve toilets instead of tank type toilets.
The older commercial toilet required a one inch supply line. Newer ones probably work on less.

The discharge line is about three inch, much bigger than a marine toilet so you would have to allow for that. It will need to run down hill all the way to the holding tank. I'm not sure how you'd connect to the holding tank but you can probably figure it out.

You'd probably want to use a one piece toilet where the tank and bowl are cast as one piece. The bowl / tank joint on a two piece toilet doesn't look very strong to me.

 

[Northern Spy]

Here is the picture of the grinder tank

Clear cover. Nice. In case you want to do some viewing, I guess.

 

[twistedtree]

With a household toilet, how do you deal with sloshing water in the bowl and in the tank? I'd think you would end up with water everywhere, and maybe worse.

 

[rwidman]

With a household toilet, how do you deal with sloshing water in the bowl and in the tank? I'd think you would end up with water everywhere, and maybe worse.

Yes, you would. There are lots of good reasons to use a marine head on a boat and no good reasons to use a household toilet unless maybe you're getting them for free. Even then, it's not worth it.

 

[foggysail]

I have used house style PVC schedule 40 waste pipes for well over 20 years; first on my sailboat and now on my Silverton. Never ever had a problem. When I installed it into the Silverton, I was careful to add clean outs wherever I thought one might be needed. The other item I used in place of 90 degree elbows was PVC electrical sweeps to help prevent problems with sharp turns.

There are some who advise against using PVC. It works, is permanent, never stinks, much less expensive than any marine rated waste hoses. It does become slightly brittle as temperatures fall below freezing but it is physically strong above 40-50 degrees. I have used 3-4' sections of 1 1/5" pipe as extensions on pipe wrenches. Never broke a piece. The one weak link with PVC is with the fittings. They are not as robust as the pipe. And when temperatures fall below freezing, my boat is shrink wrapped. Of course, short lengths of hoses might be needed between the pipes and tanks/toilets.

 

[foggysail]

Yes, you would. There are lots of good reasons to use a marine head on a boat and no good reasons to use a household toilet unless maybe you're getting them for free. Even then, it's not worth it.

The toilets that I am familiar with mate to a 4" closet flange. That should be fun if you're one that enjoys challenges.

 

[psneeld]

Plus...when expecting heavy weather or rough seas or heavy wakes, water to the toilet can be shut off...even with marine toilets, too much residual water can slosh out.

 

[rwidman]

Plus...when expecting heavy weather or rough seas or heavy wakes, water to the toilet can be shut off...even with marine toilets, too much residual water can slosh out.

My cheap, manual Jabsco toilet can be (and usually is) pumped dry. No water to slosh.

 

[psneeld]

Wow...like anyone with 5 minutes of boating experience wouldn't know that?

Its knowing what can work in various situations that is important to answering the various questions that come up that West Marine advisor doesn't answer either.

 

[Maerin]

I plan to use PVC for toilet waste in my boat. I have done a little research and found there are usually two types of schedule 40 PVC connections available from your local hardware store, the type for drains and the type for pressurized lines.
Both use the same PVC pipe, but I will be using the pressurized type connectors as it's glue contact surface area is almost twice that of the drain type from what I have seen.
I plan to support it well and use very short sections of hose to allow for parts change out.
I will have about a 6 foot section under my holding tank that will virtually always contain waste. This was my main reason for using PVC pipe, due to it's non permeation characteristics.

Don't use pressure fittings, particularly in a 90. You'll end up with blockages regularly. Use DWV fittings, if 90's, use long turn ells. You may not find them at a box store, but they're available at plumbing supply houses. For hose to PVC pipe connections, use the barbless SeaLand adapter fittings because they make an obstruction-free smooth joint. I would not be concerned about the glue joint AT ALL. If you clean the joint and prime it before gluing it, there's PLENTY of surface there to insure a good joint. (Use clear primer, the purple is only to enable inspectors to confirm primer was applied). Unless you're installing the pipe and stressing it, there's no problem in using it aboard if it's supported properly. I installed 1-1/2 runs of PVC/DWV from the vacuflush pump to the holding tank, with hose at the connection points for flexibility/access. Almost 10 yrs, no problems, and NO permeation, never a blockage.

 

[swampu]

I know it a cost to benefit ratio, house hold system is going to cost about $1500 with two toilets, 40 gallon tank and a grinder pump that will eat a pair of blue jeans. Show me a marine toilet that will eat a tampon or blue jeans and I might reconsider

 

[Mako]

The RV toilets... many come with a spray nozzle to clean the bowl after use. Don't care for that.

They're also used by most of the world for washing your arse. Very sanitary.

 

[Brooksie]

The question is, how many times would you have to replace the fresh water plumbing on your boat? The answer is, never if you do it the right way the first time. PEX is not difficult to work with and you can make bends or buy angled fittings. PEX would need a lot less support than garden hose.

If I was considering buying a boat and it had garden hose for plumbing, I would deduct the cost of redoing it correctly from any offer I might make. Also, I would be concerned over any other shortcuts that might have been made.

My white garden hose plumbing has been aboard for 25+ years and still going strong. Much neater than could have been done with Pex altho Pex was not available when I did this. Pex is cheap yes, but the fittings are not. Nylon barbed fittings are only pennies although I used copper ftgs. b/c I had them at hand. I have seen some very unworkmanlike jobs done with the grey plastic pex/tubing & fittings sold for boat systems too. My son's factory done sailboat is a disgrace for instance.
To each his own I guess

 

[FOG]

Don't use pressure fittings, particularly in a 90. You'll end up with blockages regularly. Use DWV fittings, if 90's, use long turn ells. You may not find them at a box store, but they're available at plumbing supply houses. For hose to PVC pipe connections, use the barbless SeaLand adapter fittings because they make an obstruction-free smooth joint. I would not be concerned about the glue joint AT ALL. If you clean the joint and prime it before gluing it, there's PLENTY of surface there to insure a good joint. (Use clear primer, the purple is only to enable inspectors to confirm primer was applied). Unless you're installing the pipe and stressing it, there's no problem in using it aboard if it's supported properly. I installed 1-1/2 runs of PVC/DWV from the vacuflush pump to the holding tank, with hose at the connection points for flexibility/access. Almost 10 yrs, no problems, and NO permeation, never a blockage.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure what DWV fittings are, but I'll look into it.

 

[dennismckim]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure what DWV fittings are, but I'll look into it.

DWV = drain/waste/vent.

 

[foggysail]

Don't use pressure fittings, particularly in a 90. You'll end up with blockages regularly. Use DWV fittings, if 90's, use long turn ells.

The only ells I have seen are quite short. For that reason I resorted to using ells designed for wiring in the electrical departments. They work extremely well.

 

[rwidman]

The only ells I have seen are quite short. For that reason I resorted to using ells designed for wiring in the electrical departments. They work extremely well.

You didn't look hard enough or you went to the wrong store. DWV plumbing fittings are what plumbers use in residential plumbing. They are designed to pass sewage and don't cause problems in homes. They won't cause problems in boats either. My local home centers carry them.

Even though they would work, I wouldn't be proud of mixing electrical and plumbing fittings on a plumbing run.

BTW: It is possible to bend PVC electrical and plumbing pipe with heat. It takes a bit of experience and the right tools but it can be done. I wouldn't substitute heating for a proper fitting but sometimes you might need a slight bend that's not commercially available.

 

[FOG]

DWV = drain/waste/vent.

Thanks.

 

[foggysail]

Even though they would work, I wouldn't be proud of mixing electrical and plumbing fittings on a plumbing run.
.

What does pride have to do with mixing plumbing and electrical devices? You could expand that question because neither discussed here are intended for boat use. It is a matter of efficacy.

 

[psneeld]

If they both are pvc and glue together correctly, who gives a rats rear end....

Paint it all green and no one would know anyhow....people should only care if it works, doesn't leak or doesn't smell......

 

[FF]

"Show me a marine toilet that will eat a tampon or blue jeans and I might reconsider."

A tampon or a business tie is no hassle at all, but an entire pair of blue jeans is asking a lot.

I built my own toilet as I detest working on them, yes my dad was a plumber and said "it all washes off" but,,,ugh!

The principal is the same as used in the British Lavac , a bowl with an external pump.

MY bowl is full sized Monel from a WWII troup transport with a 3 inch discharge using a sweep to feed a 2 inch Edson offset bronze 2 inch pump.

IT will pump overboard anything that will get past the sweep to 2 inches.
At a gallon a stroke it is a PIA with current carry poop aboard regulations

It can be done , just not cheaply.

Anyone want to build their own I will happily give them a ceramic toilet bowl, supply your own good pump.

Pick up only here in Ortona FL
****
Edson Size 30 Manual Pump Aluminum or Bronze - 2" Ports - 1 Gallon per Stroke

• 

Performance:
Static Suction Lift

15 ft / 4.57m

Dry Suction Lift

12 ft / 3.65m

Discharge Head

15 ft / 4.57m

Max Volume

30 GPM / 114 LPM*

* at 30 cycles per minute
Construction:
Pump Base Choice of: (Wetted Parts)

Anodized Aluminum
Marine Bronze
Urethane Powder Coating
PTFE Coating (HALAR)

Diaphragms and Valves Choice of:
Nitrile
Viton
Hypalon

Hardware Material Stainless Steel

 

[rwidman]

What does pride have to do with mixing plumbing and electrical devices? You could expand that question because neither discussed here are intended for boat use. It is a matter of efficacy.

I take more pride in my work than some folks. If I see your boat plumbed that way, I'll try not to laugh if you're around but if you're not and I have my camera with me, your plumbing job will likely end up on Facebook.

I suppose if this meets your standards, it's fine for you. If I was considering buying your boat and saw this, I would be wondering what other shortcuts you might have taken.

 

[foggysail]

I take more pride in my work than some folks. If I see your boat plumbed that way, I'll try not to laugh if you're around but if you're not and I have my camera with me, your plumbing job will likely end up on Facebook.

I suppose if this meets your standards, it's fine for you. If I was considering buying your boat and saw this, I would be wondering what other shortcuts you might have taken.

My invited guests have better things in life to do than ask to crawl around our boat's bilge to admire poop pipes. And nobody asks "what smells?" because there are no poop odors thanks to PVC!

And from your response, I would never invite you to do anything other than admire our boat from the public side of our marina's security fence. Have a nice day :lol:


EDIT: WHO APPOINTED YOU TO GURU STATUS????

 

[psneeld]

That is what the joke is about.... the West Marine types that stay for awhile till they get frustrated is...they just don't get it.

How many here have bought boats from previous owners who didn't buy everything from West Marine and install it to ABYC standards? Lots....I bet....

And how many of those boats like mine cruised heavily for 30 or more years, logging tens of thousands of miles giving their owners satisfaction without any more major failures than even new boats and certainly no more danger.

There is a difference in boating that wannabes just don't get....while cruising.....often temporary repairs become permanent and lead to redo projects that aren't always textbook....so freaking what?

While guys sit in their armchairs and curse the weather and thumb through yet another article or catalogue ..... there are thousands of boats out there safely cruising with smart skippers enjoying boating for what it is..... driving something safe, but less than a museum piece.

That's the difference.... call me dangerous, lazy, whatever..... that's because you don't know me.

 

[rwidman]

My opinion has nothing at all with being a guest on a boat or with West Marine (of all things).


When I was working, I did things that might be seen by my co-workers or my boss. This (and my upbringing) is where I developed my pride in workmanship and doing things the right way whenever possible. Even when my workmanship would be covered by dirt or a wall, it did it the right way and to the best of my ability. My parents instilled in me the desire to be the best I can be, not just good enough to get by.


Yes, many people's standards are lower. Some are a lot lower. At work we all knew (and the bosses knew) who had high standards and who could barely get the work done.


I think I mentioned this before but, if it meets your standards and any legal or safety standards, that's fine with me, you're working on your boat, not mine. I would be pretty upset if I paid you to make plumbing repairs on my boat and found out you used a mix of plumbing and electrical pipe because you didn't know about DWV fittings.

 

[foggysail]

You're not paying anybody here for anything so hide your false modesty.

And I did check Charlotte Pipe and Foundry Company's catalog for DWV fittings. It appears you do not know there is a significant physical difference between a plumbing sweep and an electrical sweep. Sure, each have rounded corners for passage but the radius of a PVC electrical sweep is far greater than that of a PVC sweep designed for building plumbing.

Pulling wires through pipes is entirely different matter compared to pumping water through pipes. For that reason an electrical sweep requires a large radius. My reason for using the electrical sweep in lieu of those designed for plumbing was to minimize waste obstructions as much as possible. Time to chuck your West Marine catalog and deal with real life conditions.

 

[rwidman]

You're not paying anybody here for anything so hide your false modesty.

And I did check Charlotte Pipe and Foundry Company's catalog for DWV fittings. It appears you do not know there is a significant physical difference between a plumbing sweep and an electrical sweep. Sure, each have rounded corners for passage but the radius of a PVC electrical sweep is far greater than that of a PVC sweep designed for building plumbing.

Pulling wires through pipes is entirely different matter compared to pumping water through pipes. For that reason the electrical sweeps have large radii. My reason for using the electrical sweep in lieu of those designed for plumbing was to minimize waste obstructions as much as possible. Time to chuck your West Marine catalog and deal with real life conditions.

Your "false modesty" comment is nothing more than a weak attempt at an insult. I'm not buying it.

In your apparent haste to prove yourself better than me, you have overlooked a few things. I know the difference between plumbing pipe and fittings and electrical conduit and fittings. I have used both and the electrical conduit extensively. And of course, I use them for their intended purpose.

As I posted above DWV fitting are used by plumbers for waste lines. That's what they are made for. They do not clog. If they did, the wouldn't be made the way they are.

I've pulled more wires through electrical conduit than you can ever imagine.

Again, if mixing plumbing pipe and electrical conduit suits your standards, by all means go ahead. That's the work of a "hack". I know a guy who might do something like that. He doesn't work on my boat and I don't recommend him to friends.

 

[psneeld]

Some hacks know way more than journeyman.

They know what substitutions can be done...not just doing something to industry standards..... many codes call for performance rather than specific parts....smart hacks can read between the lines and not have to think in lock step.

They aren't doing things to get away with anything other than doing something better or for less money for an equal or nearly equal product.