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Old 07-24-2016, 10:22 AM   #41
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"I am just trying to learn if a household toilet is never the right answer.'

A house toilet is perfect for house boats that have a constant sewer connection as I believe some have on the left coast.

Endless city water , endless dump ,endless electric, whats not to love, for a cottage that never leaves the dock?
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:46 AM   #42
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Well, for me, I promised the wife a beach house. I may not have mentioned "floating." So my plan is to get her really drunk and smuggle her on the boat. I figure on a stable cat, and with a household toilet, it might be a couple of days before she figures out she's on a boat, and by then she'll be sold.

More seriously, we all agree with KISS. Which is simpler, a household toilet or a marine toilet? I

...but there are a lot of toilet problem threads. And nothing will spoil your day like working on the working end of a toilet.

With that as starting point.... got it.

My view is that neither is simpler, assuming you include the whole household SYSTEM that Peggie mentions; they're just different.

IOW, if you include freshwater source, freshwater path/routing, waste water destination, wastewater path/routing... as well as the way each toilet design works... the two approaches just get there differently. And one of 'em has a whole municipal treatment plant involved (or maybe an in-ground septic tank).

As to toilet-problem threads... yeah... but if you sort those into piles... and ages... you often find that Bubba is working with a 20-year old manual pump saltwater toilet... and of course old things sometimes need more maintenance than the newest product on the block.

Complicated maybe by installation design issues: Is gravity helping anywhere in Bubba's waste line? Did the installer use good, modern sanitation hose?

Complicated further by the way Bubba (and Bubbette, and guests) use the thing: Did they actually flush enough water to clear waste lines? If the thread is about clogging, did a guest try to flush a whole roll of paper towels? Or if the thread is about odor, has Bubba used any of the appropriate methods and treatments (see Peggie's book).

And even further by Bubba's wallet -- or proclivity to open said wallet from time to time, at least long enough to let a moth escape. Did Bubba maintain the system? Did he use maker's replacement parts? Or chewing gum?

And so forth.

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Old 07-24-2016, 12:58 PM   #43
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Use CPVC, not PVC for fresh water lines. CPVC is stronger and can take hot water.
PVC by code is not allowed within 5 feet of a house, was told this by our city inspector, for pressurized water, so why use it on a boat?
I also like PEX, but CPVC is easier to glue up, and I think it is less costly.

One great advantage is PEX can take being frozen without cracking.

My own boat is plumbed with soft 1/2" copper lines and screw together compression fittings. Copper is naturally anti-bacterial. My boat's fresh water has never gone foul, water is always been good, since 1998 when I bought the boat. So the safest cleanest water system is to use copper lines.

Copper kills almost 100% of all nasty bugs in water within 2 hours..
http://investmentwatchblog.com/coppe...hin-two-hours/
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Old 07-24-2016, 01:01 PM   #44
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The PVC would only be for drainage from showers, sinks and shitters.
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Old 07-24-2016, 02:22 PM   #45
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PEX is just cut and press together. It is dead simple which it is why it is now the standard of boat building. No glue joints at all. It can take bends too so there are fewer joints. It is very easy to insert a T or a valve making it very easy to modify the water system. It is available in several colors. Mot boat builders seem to use blue for cold water and red for hot water and white for salt water. But i so not know if there is an official color code standard.
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Old 07-24-2016, 05:30 PM   #46
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I promised the wife a beach house. I may not have mentioned "floating." So my plan is to get her really drunk and smuggle her on the boat. I figure on a stable cat, and with a household toilet, it might be a couple of days before she figures out she's on a boat, and by then she'll be sold.

Give her a Raritan Marine Elegance Raritan Marine Elegance ...I'll be glad provide all the help you need to plumb the system without all the mistakes that so many DIY owners make...and she'll love it. The toilet anyway...can't speak for the rest.
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Old 07-24-2016, 05:44 PM   #47
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Sloan used to be preferred for flush valves, but Zurn now seems to compete. There used be a source named Delaney (or similar) who competed with Sloan, but were not as common. They require a non-varying pressurized supply.

I would not want a water trap only without a valve in a boat.
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Old 07-24-2016, 05:55 PM   #48
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I would not want a water trap only without a valve in a boat.
I don't understand this, and it sounds important. Can you help?
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Old 07-24-2016, 07:51 PM   #49
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I've been sailing a long time, decades longer than cruising in a diesel motor cruiser. If a sailboat is knocked down (horizontal, or nearly so), a distinct possibility in the light-displacement yawl we cruised 18 years, a toilet trap will drain out, one way or the other, and the results may not be pretty. If the water trap-sealed toilet has a hundred gallons of effluent in the tank under it, it will make one heck'uv'a mess in your accomodations.
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Old 07-24-2016, 07:52 PM   #50
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I bet Peggie isn't familiar with Sloan and Zurn but every guy on this forum is.

The reason is urinals. Guys standing in front of a urinal have nothing better to do than read the top of the flush valve.

Anybody memorized the patent number of the Sloan Royal yet?
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:05 PM   #51
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I've been sailing a long time, decades longer than cruising in a diesel motor cruiser. If a sailboat is knocked down (horizontal, or nearly so), a distinct possibility in the light-displacement yawl we cruised 18 years, a toilet trap will drain out, one way or the other, and the results may not be pretty. If the water trap-sealed toilet has a hundred gallons of effluent in the tank under it, it will make one heck'uv'a mess in your accomodations.
Ahhh, thanks. Worth thinking about. Could pumping out, for instance, ever run amuck and force sewage back up through the toilet.
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:30 PM   #52
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I bet Peggie isn't familiar with Sloan and Zurn but every guy on this forum is. The reason is urinals. Guys standing in front of a urinal have nothing better to do than read the top of the flush valve. Anybody memorized the patent number of the Sloan Royal yet?
110, 111 or 125???
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:33 PM   #53
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Oh Peggie, I should have known better!
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:44 PM   #54
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I promised the wife a beach house. I may not have mentioned "floating." So my plan is to get her really drunk and smuggle her on the boat. I figure on a stable cat, and with a household toilet, it might be a couple of days before she figures out she's on a boat, and by then she'll be sold.

Give her a Raritan Marine Elegance Raritan Marine Elegance ...I'll be glad provide all the help you need to plumb the system without all the mistakes that so many DIY owners make...and she'll love it. The toilet anyway...can't speak for the rest.
A Raritan Marine Elegance it will probably be, if I give up on household units.

Are you familiar with the Headhunter Bravo toilet? Uses some different technology that they don't quite explain, but they have a video of it flushing/macerating panty hose and keys.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:17 PM   #55
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Cottontop, the Headhunter toilets I've seen were an older design called a jet head. Jet heads have a very powerful flush using a high pressure jet of water to breakup the stuff. I think the Headhunter also uses a 2" discharge hose as opposed to the common 1-1/2.

It's a design that goes back to a time when boats flushed directly overboard and the amount of water used to flush didn't matter. They can fill a holding tank pretty quick and they are not particularly quiet. They also use a lot of power.

I'm not familiar with the Bravo model so all of the above may not apply.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:19 PM   #56
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Cottontop, the Headhunter toilets I've seen were an older design called a jet head. Jet heads have a very powerful flush using a high pressure jet of water to breakup the stuff. I think the Headhunter also uses a 2" discharge hose as opposed to the common 1-1/2.

It's a design that goes back to a time when boats flushed directly overboard and the amount of water used to flush didn't matter. They can fill a holding tank pretty quick and they are not particularly quiet. They also use a lot of power.

I'm not familiar with the Bravo model so all of the above may not apply.
I think that's it, thanks.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:21 PM   #57
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Are you familiar with the Headhunter Bravo toilet? Uses some different technology that they don't quite explain, but they have a video of it flushing/macerating panty hose and keys.

Headhunters are great toilets, more suited to megayachts than recreational vessels. The technology is interesting...it uses a centrifugal pump that's remote from the discharge plumbing...bowl contents don't pass through it. Which is how it can flush pocket change, Bic lighters, keys and yes, panty hose too. Which may be just fine in open ocean 100 miles from shore (although environmentalists might argue that it could harm a whale), but hardly what you'd want to deposit in an anchorage...or a holding tank, 'cuz what goes into the tank has to be removed from the tank. I leave it up to you to figure out how.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:35 PM   #58
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Parks, the Jet Head was a Raritan toilet...they discontinued it some time in the '90s.

I remember Mel Melenger, Headhunter founder and CEO, bringing the earliest model to the Atlanta boat show and demo'ing how it could flush everything including pantyhose in the late '80s. Lake Lanier had one of the largest--if not THE largest--per capita houseboat populations in the country and he had the idea it would be a great toilet for houseboats...until I told him that Lanier had just become an NDZ.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:58 PM   #59
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Hi Peggie, there were actually several small companies that made jet heads back in the sixties. Cooper's Poopers were very popular in South Florida. I think old man Cooper was actually the first to make one. There was another fellow who made them in Ft. Lauderdale and I can't remember his name. He was the store manager of the Hopkins-Carter Ft. Lauderdale store. He bought the store in the fifties and started selling his toilets as well.
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:14 PM   #60
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Are you familiar with the Headhunter Bravo toilet? Uses some different technology that they don't quite explain, but they have a video of it flushing/macerating panty hose and keys.

Headhunters are great toilets, more suited to megayachts than recreational vessels. The technology is interesting...it uses a centrifugal pump that's remote from the discharge plumbing...bowl contents don't pass through it. Which is how it can flush pocket change, Bic lighters, keys and yes, panty hose too. Which may be just fine in open ocean 100 miles from shore (although environmentalists might argue that it could harm a whale), but hardly what you'd want to deposit in an anchorage...or a holding tank, 'cuz what goes into the tank has to be removed from the tank. I leave it up to you to figure out how.
FWIW, We have 3 Headhunters onboard a 53' Hatteras and have had 0 problems in over 15 years of use. However, they require a pressurized water system.
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