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Old 07-23-2016, 04:13 PM   #21
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Household toilets are great if you have an unlimited water supply and a treatment device...or a huge holding tank. I have neither so I designed a system that works for me and my boat....each boat is a bit different and used differently, so one system doesn't necessarily have to fit all.

What is hard for some or for them to understand isn't necessarily hard for others.
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Old 07-23-2016, 04:19 PM   #22
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Having said that, household toilets are about the most reliable, trouble-free appliances in my life. From everything I read, marine toilets, not so much.
Not in my experience. I spent way way less time tending to our three Vacuflush systems when we lived aboard full time than I did in similar time spans in several different houses.

There are reasons you don't see household toilets on boats; Peggy lists a few. I suppose if the boat is never going to leave the dock, never be in any sort of seaway whatsoever, you could get away with it.

Beside flushing water and the occasional dose of distilled white vinegar through now and then, permeation can be prevented in a properly installed system by buying good hoses.
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Old 07-23-2016, 04:58 PM   #23
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Not in my experience. I spent way way less time tending to our three Vacuflush systems when we lived aboard full time than I did in similar time spans in several different houses.

There are reasons you don't see household toilets on boats; Peggy lists a few. I suppose if the boat is never going to leave the dock, never be in any sort of seaway whatsoever, you could get away with it.
I am glad to hear that marine toilets are not always a disaster. I am sure good design is key.

I am truly interested in household toilets for the boat. I appreciate that most boats have limited space, electricity, water and payload, requiring some of the clever solutions found in marine toilets.

But the OP's boat is 65'. Mine will be a 50' cat. I will have abundant water and electricity, but have to watch the size of holding tanks. The OP probably has no meaningful restrictions.

So why not household toilets? Too much water use? Modern household toilets are pretty stingy, having reduced flush settings for #1 and only requiring 1 gallon for #2. On a friend's boat, we are admonished to flush "often." I wonder about the water use argument. I do know I'd rather pump out more often than ever don the plastic suit.

Sloshing water? Well, Sloan valve toilets don't have a tank, and Flushmate toilets have a sealed tank. But water in the bowl (necessary to block fumes from the holding tank)? Not sure.

If someone knows the killer objection, I'd love to hear it, so I could quit thinking about this.
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Old 07-23-2016, 05:09 PM   #24
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Well then, why don't you put some in and let us know how it works for you? Somebody has to be a pioneer...
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Old 07-23-2016, 05:11 PM   #25
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You're overlooking something very important: In a house, the toilet--all "appliances"--are JUST an appliance. Power is supplied from external sources, water is supplied from an external source...when you flush a toilet it leaves the house and goes to an external sewer which takes it an external sewage treatment plant. So all you have to do when you install or replace an appliance in a house is connect it to the external utility.

But EVERYTHING on a boat is a component in a system..and anything done (or wasn't done that should have been) to ANY component in any system impacts the entire system. Away from the dock, a boat is totally reliant it's own systems...The boat's electrical systems provide the power...the boat's fresh water system provides all the water. The toilet is a component in a system that may or may not need both, or may use a pump--integral or external--to bring in the water it needs. And toilet waste management is a part of that system.

Household toilets need gravity to work...not always available on a boat. Large ships can use household toilets because they have the equivalent of municipal sewer system and pumps big enough to assist or replace gravity. Theirs are also sanitation "systems"--systems that require a LOT of maintenance.

Marine sanitation systems are actually pretty simple...a toilet that either pulls in flush water or relies on the fresh water system to provide it and has a pump that uses either manual labor or an electric motor to move the bowl contents to its destination. Yes, they need maintenance--a LOT less if it's PREVENTIVE maintenance than is needed to solve the problems which, at least 90% of the time, could have been prevented.

Do household toilet need joker valves? No, but you've obviously never had to replace the flapper valve in the flush water tank. Or the mechanism that lifts and resets it...and then spend half a day adjusting the float that turns the water off before the water overflows the tank, only to find out that the plumbing "expert" at the big box hardware store sold you the wrong type. Or found out that you wouldn't have had to replace the flapper valve if you'd known that the Clorox "puck" sold to go in the tank would destroy it. Wax rings are only good for about 10 years before the toilet starts to leak...a lot less if they dry out from non-use of the toilet for even a few months. And the toilet weighs about 75 lbs...more than I can lift by myself, so I either have hire somebody to do it or recruit someone's able bodies husband to help. And household toilets aren't clog proof either (NEVER try to flush clumping cat litter!)

So tell me again how much simpler and easier household toilets would be on a boat...???
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Old 07-23-2016, 05:13 PM   #26
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We have a Raritan Atlantis A12 that twenty years old and still working after only one minor tuneup in 1998. The main drain/chip and shred pump is starting to warble a little at times but is still pumping but we may be looking at a Rairtan Elegance soon.
Don't you just love that name for a toilet.
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Old 07-23-2016, 05:37 PM   #27
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Well then, why don't you put some in and let us know how it works for you? Somebody has to be a pioneer...
OK, you've forced me to admit to my evil scheme:

I'm trying to encourage the OP to be the pioneer (I actually thought there might already be pioneers, but maybe not). Then (s)he can report. I'm still a few months from building.
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Old 07-23-2016, 05:49 PM   #28
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On my last boat it had a hybrid system, rv direct dump toilet with 1' of pipe to the holding tank and a standard marine electric macerator head in the forward cabin that pushed effluent back to the tank. The direct rv dump unit was bulletproof, the fwd. unit needed typical macerator maintenance. The holding tank had a 1" vent that kept smell at bay. The rv unit was a fresh water flush. In a perfect world I would have the same unit again in a heartbeat.
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Old 07-23-2016, 05:54 PM   #29
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On my last boat it had a hybrid system, rv direct dump toilet with 1' of pipe to the holding tank and a standard marine electric macerator head in the forward cabin that pushed effluent back to the tank. The direct rv dump unit was bulletproof, the fwd. unit needed typical macerator maintenance. The holding tank had a 1" vent that kept smell at bay. The rv unit was a fresh water flush. In a perfect world I would have the same unit again in a heartbeat.
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Do you recall the make/model of the RV unit? Peggy has encouraged me in a long-ago posting to consider RV units. I have looked; Not quite household, but maybe that's as good as it gets.

OP, I still want you to go the household route.
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Old 07-23-2016, 06:15 PM   #30
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Do you recall the make/model of the RV unit? Peggy has encouraged me in a long-ago posting to consider RV units. I have looked; Not quite household, but maybe that's as good as it gets.

OP, I still want you to go the household route.
It was a raritan unit, same as the vacuflush in my current boat. No way I would consider a home unit.. Even a power flush.. They need some pretty decent water psi to work.
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Old 07-23-2016, 06:25 PM   #31
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PVC is fine, but stay away from cell core pipe. Use pressure fittings vs DWV.

PEX is good for distributing your potable water. They make some nice manifolds to distribute from.

Household toilets won't work well for all the reasons others have stated.

Take some time to think how you can quickly and painlessly winterize all your lines.

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Old 07-23-2016, 06:29 PM   #32
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It was a raritan unit, same as the vacuflush in my current boat. No way I would consider a home unit.. Even a power flush.. They need some pretty decent water psi to work.
Hollywood
Flushmates and Sloan valves both only require 25psi. The Sloan valve may need a high flow capacity, however.
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Old 07-23-2016, 06:32 PM   #33
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20yr liveaboard/cruiser all waste plumbing is ABS (the black plastic from Home depot).
Much cheaper than sanitary hose, much easier to install, very easy to control the fall, totally impervious to permeation and leak free for 20 years. I have 6" of hose at the tank and at the toilet.... otherwise pipe.
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Old 07-23-2016, 06:41 PM   #34
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Flushmates and Sloan valves both only require 25psi. The Sloan valve may need a high flow capacity, however.

No "however" about it, the flushometer (Sloan is a brand name) requires a 1 1/4" supply line feeding the 1" inlet on a water closet compatible model. Dirt toilets need to stay there. If you cannot use an rv gravity style toilet then and only then would I go marine. Here's a source for gravity rv style.

http://m.campingworld.com/category/toilets/1356
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Old 07-23-2016, 06:43 PM   #35
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20yr liveaboard/cruiser all waste plumbing is ABS (the black plastic from Home depot).

Much cheaper than sanitary hose, much easier to install, very easy to control the fall, totally impervious to permeation and leak free for 20 years. I have 6" of hose at the tank and at the toiler.... otherwise pipe.

And those two 6" pieces of hose will need to be replaced at least 40 years before that ABS pipe.
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Old 07-23-2016, 07:53 PM   #36
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On my last boat it had a hybrid system, rv direct dump toilet with 1' of pipe to the holding tank and a standard marine electric macerator head in the forward cabin that pushed effluent back to the tank. The direct rv dump unit was bulletproof, the fwd. unit needed typical macerator maintenance. The holding tank had a 1" vent that kept smell at bay. The rv unit was a fresh water flush. In a perfect world I would have the same unit again in a heartbeat.
Hollywood
Very similar to my setup.

And after redesigning some of Raritans sanitation products...I am very happy with my hybrid system too.
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Old 07-24-2016, 07:10 AM   #37
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I am glad to hear that marine toilets are not always a disaster. I am sure good design is key.

So why not household toilets?

Not clear to me what advantages you (and OP?) perceive with the household units.

Somebody mentioned a joker valve; indeed I had to replace one once, took me about 3 minutes. Had to eventually replace the solenoid unit that feeds freshwater into our toilet; took me about 15 minutes. Replaced the discharge pump/motor, took about 15 minutes. All that after the first 10-11 years of service life (except maybe 8-9? years for the joker), brought everything back to as good as new.

Slightly less maintenance time than with the three toilets in our house...

With fewer worries about freshwater consumption, increased holding tank pump-outs...

What good would a household unit bring to the table? (So to speak...)

For OP: I'll chime in on favor of PEX. Our whole freshwater system came that way... Clear with red/blue tracers. Would have preferred opaque red/blue, I think, but that's more for ease of line tracing than anything else. Our fittings are Flair-It; probably would have preferred something like SharkBite, but none of our Flair-It fittings has ever failed over 14-year-so-far lifespan. (He says, lquickly ooking around for some wood to knock on...)

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Old 07-24-2016, 07:56 AM   #38
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Ok, well toilet aside I am going to run with the pex and pvc for now, plumbing starts today. My shrimper buddies drain the toilet into the bilge. Very disgusting and stinks. I would say that would be the other end of the spectrum from a legal marinized unit.
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:15 AM   #39
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"Wax rings are only good for about 10 years before the toilet starts to leak...a lot less if they dry out from non-use of the toilet for even a few months"

Wax rings are a buck or so, for the past few decades other materials are OTS.

, over $3.50 tho.

Wax rings are a great cheap source of bees wax t , for other marine use.
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:35 AM   #40
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Not clear to me what advantages you (and OP?) perceive with the household units

What good would a household unit bring to the table? (So to speak...)
Well, for me, I promised the wife a beach house. I may not have mentioned "floating." So my plan is to get her really drunk and smuggle her on the boat. I figure on a stable cat, and with a household toilet, it might be a couple of days before she figures out she's on a boat, and by then she'll be sold.

More seriously, we all agree with KISS. Which is simpler, a household toilet or a marine toilet? I fully appreciate that on most boats, a household toilet is not the right answer. I am just trying to learn if a household toilet is never the right answer. (OP, you are in a perfect position to answer this!)

And I am glad to hear that some have not had problems with their marine toilets, no doubt those who have read Peggy's book, but there are a lot of toilet problem threads. And nothing will spoil your day like working on the working end of a toilet.
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