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Old 04-20-2019, 11:54 AM   #1
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Thumbs up USCG Warns Positive Test for Pot Could......

https://www.workboat.com/news/govern...b1NcL3VKIn0%3D
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:48 PM   #2
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Yeah, and don't try to cross the border from Washington to Canada with your stash. It's legal in both places but you can't take your stash with you if you're going either direction.
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:49 PM   #3
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Drug testing is common in many industries, not just the maritime industry.

I retired ten years ago from a contractor working in the LA area refineries. There was a consortium of contractors in that area that all did pre-employment drug testing and subsequent random testing. A positive test for illegal drugs including cannabis was an immediate no hire or dismissal for a current employee.

There is some justification for this position even for personnel who are not directly involved with operating critical refinery processes. A dozen years earlier before drug testing became common, I was in charge of a construction project in rural Arkansas. We were having a rash of relatively minor on the job injuries: twisted ankles, slips and falls resulting in back pain, etc, many of which we thought were fraudulent. We had a workforce of a couple of hundred construction workers then.

One Friday we announced that the following Monday all employees would have to be drug tested. About 1/3 of the workforce didn't show up and another 10-15% of those who were tested, failed and were terminated. By the end of the week the accidents had stopped and we got as much work done by the remaining 50% of our workforce as before with 100%.

I am not saying that smoking cannabis caused all of our problems then. I do believe that then, the type of person who smoked regularly wasn't that skilled and reliable an employee as one who didn't. No matter, it worked for us.

I havn't followed the law since I retired and maybe in California where cannabis is legal, you can't fire or fail to hire an employee solely because they smoke.

Anyone know?

David
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:01 PM   #4
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All employers test for cannabis, alcohol and other intoxicants when there is an on the job injury. It is an excellent way to save money on insurance costs and workman’s comp. They really like the current state of cannabis testing since legal consumption within the 3 to 4 weeks before the incident will look like it was used immediately before. A real money saver!
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:59 PM   #5
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Pot stays the longest in your blood of the common drugs.
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Old 04-20-2019, 05:32 PM   #6
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there is going to have to be some sort of reckoning with the difference in time between detectability and impairment. If you smoke on Friday night, you will not be impaired at work on Monday, but you'll still fail a drug test. I suspect some deep pocketed person will get arrested for driving while impaired on canabis, and the issue will reach the Supreme Court.

I don't smoke but it is legal here. If something is legal it shouldn't jepoardize your job.
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:22 PM   #7
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there is going to have to be some sort of reckoning with the difference in time between detectability and impairment. If you smoke on Friday night, you will not be impaired at work on Monday, but you'll still fail a drug test. I suspect some deep pocketed person will get arrested for driving while impaired on canabis, and the issue will reach the Supreme Court.

I don't smoke but it is legal here. If something is legal it shouldn't jepoardize your job.
My first thought was what about the poor guy who goes to a party on the weekend and encounters some second hand smoke and then gets fired on Monday. That one will surely end up in court. This whole thing has been poorly thought out.
I don't think Canadians are any better off in that respect.
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:40 PM   #8
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Pot stays the longest in your blood of the common drugs.
While yes cannabis lasts longer than most, that chart is grossly over inflated for cannabis unless it's for a full time habitual user with a fair amount of excess body fat. A 300lb, 3x per day person, yes. Average person, no.

For an occasional, not obese, cannabis user 10-14 days is the range to clear for a urinalysis. If you are particularly lean occasional consumer with a high metabolic rate it can be as little as 3 days. The cannibanoid "residue" that urinalysis tests for is stored in fat cells and is secreted over time- timeline varies dramatically depending on genetics, body fat percentage and activity levels.

Most of the other drugs listed seem high for time to clear, but I'm not informed enough to know for sure.

For the record, I'm completely against BUI regardless of substance. But if you're a cannabis user, be aware the current regulations are stacked against cannabis more than any other substance.
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:40 PM   #9
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Drug testing is common in many industries, not just the maritime industry.

I retired ten years ago from a contractor working in the LA area refineries. There was a consortium of contractors in that area that all did pre-employment drug testing and subsequent random testing. A positive test for illegal drugs including cannabis was an immediate no hire or dismissal for a current employee.

There is some justification for this position even for personnel who are not directly involved with operating critical refinery processes. A dozen years earlier before drug testing became common, I was in charge of a construction project in rural Arkansas. We were having a rash of relatively minor on the job injuries: twisted ankles, slips and falls resulting in back pain, etc, many of which we thought were fraudulent. We had a workforce of a couple of hundred construction workers then.

One Friday we announced that the following Monday all employees would have to be drug tested. About 1/3 of the workforce didn't show up and another 10-15% of those who were tested, failed and were terminated. By the end of the week the accidents had stopped and we got as much work done by the remaining 50% of our workforce as before with 100%.

I am not saying that smoking cannabis caused all of our problems then. I do believe that then, the type of person who smoked regularly wasn't that skilled and reliable an employee as one who didn't. No matter, it worked for us.

I havn't followed the law since I retired and maybe in California where cannabis is legal, you can't fire or fail to hire an employee solely because they smoke.

Anyone know?

David
David,

Good points. Personally, I don't care if someone smokes, drinks, does drugs, so long as it doesn't affect their performance on the job. The CG can threaten anyone, but it's NOT their job to hire and fire people. If drug testing is required then that's part of the job requirement and you don't have to take that job if you don't want to comply.

However, employers CAN discriminate against you if you smoke (even cigarettes), regardless if its legal or not. They an also discriminate for a number of things as long as it's not the protected rights by law. You can discriminate against red hair, tattoos, ugliness, fat people etc., etc. and I did in my business if I felt it was bad for business.

In my small business, I would not hire a smoker. They stunk and I didn't permit smoking anywhere on the premises. Never had an issue. However, I could care less it they did drugs as long as it didn't affect their work.
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:52 PM   #10
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"At the start of 2019, the Coast Guard announced that the minimum random drug testing rate would increase to 50% from 25% where it had been set for five years."-from the Professional Mariner.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:23 PM   #11
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there is going to have to be some sort of reckoning with the difference in time between detectability and impairment. If you smoke on Friday night, you will not be impaired at work on Monday, but you'll still fail a drug test. I suspect some deep pocketed person will get arrested for driving while impaired on canabis, and the issue will reach the Supreme Court.

I don't smoke but it is legal here. If something is legal it shouldn't jepoardize your job.
Reading djmarchand`s post, it seems the issue is less related to legality and more related to work safety and efficiency.
Just because something is legal can`t mean an employer and employees have to accept dangerous co workers in the workplace.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:32 PM   #12
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Merchant Marine certification is Federal. As long as cannabis is illegal federally, it will be prohibited and it doesn't matter how long it stays in your bloodstream or fatty tissue.

I live in Canada where it is Federally legal. However where I work we are subject to unannounced searches, sniffer dogs, and random testing. My understanding is that my company uses swab testing as it is more indicative of impairment as opposed to general usage. Can't drink on site, even when off work either.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:40 PM   #13
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David,

Good points. Personally, I don't care if someone smokes, drinks, does drugs, so long as it doesn't affect their performance on the job. The CG can threaten anyone, but it's NOT their job to hire and fire people. If drug testing is required then that's part of the job requirement and you don't have to take that job if you don't want to comply.

However, employers CAN discriminate against you if you smoke (even cigarettes), regardless if its legal or not. They an also discriminate for a number of things as long as it's not the protected rights by law. You can discriminate against red hair, tattoos, ugliness, fat people etc., etc. and I did in my business if I felt it was bad for business.

In my small business, I would not hire a smoker. They stunk and I didn't permit smoking anywhere on the premises. Never had an issue. However, I could care less it they did drugs as long as it didn't affect their work.
X2.

Another small business owner. As long as your free time hobbies don't interfere with work, I don't care if you're closing the bar down every night.

I had an employee that was into psilocybin (magic mushrooms) in a BIG way. He was always on time, and an excellent employee. He later started his own company in the same field, we parted on good terms, and he's doing well to this day. Still into shrooms. You either have a self destructive personality or you don't. If you do you'll find trouble no matter the situation. If you don't, you can do things outside of the "law" and still have a completely productive, happy life.

I do discriminate against the obese and against cigarette smokers in my company. And only because personal experience has taught me to do so. The latter generally take too many "smoke breaks" to be effective, and I hate the smell (I also smoked as a young adult but later quit -it's a nasty habit). The former rarely have the motivation to perform- if they won't even try to take care of themselves why would they bother to take care of their job?
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:44 PM   #14
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A block from my home is a drug rehab center. It is very busy, filled with blue-collar clients. Seems white-collar workers aren't tested much.
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Old 04-20-2019, 08:37 PM   #15
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A block from my home is a drug rehab center. It is very busy, filled with blue-collar clients. Seems white-collar workers aren't tested much.
It depends, like most things. When I was a white collar salaried engineer there was a preemployment test, and then an annual random test in which I was picked roughly every other year, maybe every third year. The testing company came on site and picked their "random" people and tested them on the campus.

I later started my own company as a contract engineering house. We go in and program machines in a union factory environment. We are required to submit a clean (within 30 days) drug screen for safety training for every factory we go to which is due annually. You know a year in advance when the drug test is coming. The union employees are subjected to a preemployment screening. Once they are hired they will never have to test again- unless they get hurt on the job.

In the case of injury it's immediate drug screen at the hospital, niether contractors nor union employees get a reprieve. But if you are a union employee and announce before you pee that you want to enter rehab then your failed screen can't be used against you and you have 90 days to produce a clean urinalysis.

This is a backbone industry of the American economy that has been around since the early 1900s. Movies have been made about this industry. Companies this size want workers that can show up and produce, they couldn't care less what happens on free time if it doesn't affect production.
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:02 PM   #16
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Greetings,
I suppose there have to be some "standard" that can be applied for ALL mind altering substances but therein lies the problem IMO.
As mentioned the retention time for pot is potentially weeks and a positive test is NO indication of any level of impairment. It only signifies that a person has been in contact with pot at some point either from direct use or second hand smoke.
Similarly, I think we all know of high functioning alcoholics. They, evidently, are able to perform their duties with a BAC that would disable the average person.
So, where does one draw the line?
Complicating the whole mess is the legality of pot consumption whether at the state or federal level. While illegal federally, a person can consume for medical reasons.
The mind boggles...


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Old 04-20-2019, 11:18 PM   #17
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Wifey B: The CBD is going to get lots of people in trouble with the tests. Although the THC isn't adequate to get high, it's enough to show up. Even Burger King talking about a CBD burger.

We're going from one bad habit to another to another. Vaping is so unhealthy. As to Marijuana, the permanent experiment has very bad results so far. ER admissions and rehab admissions are way up in Colorado. The thoughts that it was just making it legal to do what people were already doing were wrong. I was in favor of decriminalizing it, but totally legalizing has dire consequences.

On boats and crew jobs and such, we have no tolerance. In our stores and factories, we don't care what drugs one does on their own time if it doesn't impact their work. However, alcohol and pot do impact the work of many. The reality is the performance of regular pot users isn't good.

It's sad that on one side we have those trying to deny weed to those who is can really be of medical benefit and on the other side we have it permeating the lives of our young people more than most imagined it would or could. We give regular courses on drug use, including alcohol, to our employees and it does help. We even encourage, if they must use, use the nights that they don't have work the next day. For those who use daily, it becomes pretty obvious. One other thing we require is if you use, then shower and put on clean clothes before coming to work or you'll end up being sent home. Our no smoking policies extend to no smell of smoking.

I do hate the lives we've negatively impacted in our society of casual or occasional users. Records that they can't escape, totally inconsistent with their crime.

There will be young crew who think they can beat the tests. A huge market for kits including purchased urine. They're destroy their careers with even one indiscretion. I don't have answers for this, but it's a very sad situation and I do hate seeing young people develop problems.
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Old 04-21-2019, 05:38 AM   #18
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BandB,

And it's not only young people.... most of them pick it up from older people and a lot of them never quit.

It's a problem in retirement homes.
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:06 AM   #19
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there is going to have to be some sort of reckoning with the difference in time between detectability and impairment. If you smoke on Friday night, you will not be impaired at work on Monday, but you'll still fail a drug test. I suspect some deep pocketed person will get arrested for driving while impaired on canabis, and the issue will reach the Supreme Court.

I don't smoke but it is legal here. If something is legal it shouldn't jepoardize your job.
Last I knew it still violated federal law. So even though the feds are currently taking a hands off approach in states that have “legalized “ it, I’m pretty sure an employer is well within their rights to use this as a basis for employment.
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:54 AM   #20
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Greetings,
Ms. WB. Ah yes. I'd forgotten about the CBD "everything" trend. I don't really care one way or the other about a person's personal "choices" but touting CBD as a beneficial additive to anything that can be readily marketed to and accessed by the general public is just ludicrous IMO.
All it's going to take is one unscrupulous or ignorant manufacturer adding impure (containing detectable levels of THC) CBD to their product and the excrement is going to hit the rotating air movement device.


There already have been cases where people have eaten poppy seed bagels and failed drug tests.
https://nypost.com/2018/08/07/mom-in...py-seed-bagel/

Compounding the situation further are false positives for drug tests.
https://www.goodrx.com/blog/these-15...on-drug-tests/


Guilty until proven innocent much?


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