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Old 09-12-2019, 10:32 AM   #1
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USCG warns charging cell phones

Really?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...xxzqEAOeYs-lFA
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:52 AM   #2
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Greetings,
Was there a 787 on board as well?
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:59 AM   #3
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I think they were charging diving scooters too. That would worry more than cell phones. Salt water, big batts, etc.
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:20 AM   #4
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Total amperage adds up. if 34 divers were charging phones, cameras, lights, gopro's, ipads, laptops, dive computers, etc then they could easily have overloaded the circuits. One photo I saw had 4 outlet extenders attached to what was claimed to be 4 20A circuits. one was a quad outlet and it would be unusual to wire it to 2 separate circuits although it can be easily done. If one idiot was charging a vaping pen all bets are off.

I think USCG is engaging in image damage control.
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:34 AM   #5
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Ditto on what SoWhat said.
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:39 AM   #6
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From Li-Ion Battery Fire Hazards and Safety Strategies: Kong et al;


There have been numerous incidents of Li-ion batteries catching fire and exploding. For example,
the United States (U.S.) Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) reported 206 air/airport Li-ion battery
fire/explosion incidents from March 1991 to January 2018 [2]. In May 2011, a Chevrolet Volt caught
fire three weeks after a crash test [3]. In 2013, several Tesla Model S sedans caught fire after they
were damaged by road debris. Although Tesla strengthened the battery shield on its new and
existing cars, in August 2016, a Tesla electric car caught fire in France during a promotional tour.
In 2016, 92 Samsung Note 7 smartphones caught fire and caused a mass product recall [4]. Other
Li-ion battery-powered devices have also been mentioned in fire-type incidents, such as notebook
computers [4,5], hoverboards [4], and electronic cigarettes [6,7]. The corresponding causes for the
Li-ion battery incidents vary. Short circuits, mechanical abuse, battery overcharging, and design and
manufacturing flaws can all result in a battery fire/explosion. Saxena et al. [8] investigated e-cigarette
incidents and found that the e-cigarette market is not regulated. Low-quality or even defective batteries
are entering the market, which increases the risk of Li-ion battery explosions.
In conventional Li-ion batteries with liquid electrolytes, there are five key components: anode,
cathode, separator, current collectors, and electrolyte. Among these components, the separator and
the electrolyte are less tolerant to increasing temperature than the electrodes and current collectors,
Energies 2018, 11, 2191; doi:10.3390/en11092191 www.mdpi.com/journal/energies
Energies 2018, 11, 2191 2 of 11
which are made of metal oxide/graphite or metal. A Li-ion battery uses a polymer separator and a
flammable electrolyte, which are both constrained to certain temperature limits for safe performance.
When a Li-ion battery’s temperature increases to approximately 130–150 ◦C, the high-energy
materials and the organic components are not stable and are prone to generate more heat [9]. If the
generated heat does not dissipate, the battery temperature will further increase and accelerate the
heat-releasing process. Thermal runaway may be triggered if a battery has certain defects that can lead
to short-circuiting, is overheated, is subject to high pulse power usage, or is punctured. Generally, the
passivation layer (solid electrolyte interphase, SEI) on the electrode decomposes at around 69 ◦C [10].
After the breakdown of the SEI layer, the electrolyte reacts with the electrode and releases flammable
hydrocarbon gases [11]. The polymer separator melts when the temperature is around 130 ◦C [9].
At higher temperatures, the positive electrode decomposes and releases oxygen.
Thermal runaway can be mitigated by methods that take effect at different stages of the thermal
runaway process. These measures can be classified into three categories based on their effects on the
process. In general, the potential for thermal runaway is influenced by the state of charge, operation
conditions, battery electrode materials, electrolyte, and separator. The first category is preventive
measures, wherein flame retardants are added for battery thermal stability. The second category
is fail-safe measures that stop or decrease the damage caused by thermal runaway; these include
separator shutdown and cell venting. The third catego.......



Cave divers had an incident years ago in N FL at a charge station. I, myself, totaled a car one time during a light charge. And, caused a sheet metal fire charging a ridiculously large dive light battery pack in a different car. Since then, I've been in several safety roles, including convincing the USN that a certain Li-ion cell pack was safe for transport.

If I ran a dive boat, the charge station needs to be a fireproof surface (steel), and NO foam rubber, etc for quite a ways around.
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:42 AM   #7
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Add to the list "Li" batteries as mentioned by RT. Which is where the CG and NTSB are coming from in their advisory statements.


edit
+ oops, DD added some real good details. Not to forget, the large charging station in this sad case was a level above the sleeping quarters.
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Old 09-12-2019, 03:38 PM   #8
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Just about the time of this warning a boat catches fire off the Channel Islands. And yes the assumptions by investigators lead to LI battery failure and or overtaxing ships wiring.
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:04 PM   #9
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I am curious about this portion of the story. It is my understanding this was an older boat that had been in dive charter operation for a long time. Years ago cameras and flashes ran on standard, non-rechargable batteries. There were no Go-Pros or underwater scooters (at least outside of James Bond). There were no cell phones, or tablets.

I have to wonder if they were equipped to handle the loads that very slowly grew over time? I also have to wonder about LiON batteries as well with the history of phones and cheap hover boards.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Chief View Post
Just about the time of this warning a boat catches fire off the Channel Islands. And yes the assumptions by investigators lead to LI battery failure and or overtaxing ships wiring.

So there are a few boats out there that have LI systems as house batteries. Scary...
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
So there are a few boats out there that have LI systems as house batteries. Scary...
The lithium batteries used as house batteries on boats are a different (and much safer) chemistry than those used in phones, etc. I'm not sure why it hasn't been more widely adopted.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:52 AM   #12
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Polymer is used to describe the separator within a cell. Lower temperature rating, therefore not as safe. It allows somewhat higher capacity.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:56 AM   #13
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From that list above, Lithium Iron Phosphate is the type typically used for boat house batteries
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoWhat View Post
Total amperage adds up. if 34 divers were charging phones, cameras, lights, gopro's, ipads, laptops, dive computers, etc then they could easily have overloaded the circuits. One photo I saw had 4 outlet extenders attached to what was claimed to be 4 20A circuits. one was a quad outlet and it would be unusual to wire it to 2 separate circuits although it can be easily done. If one idiot was charging a vaping pen all bets are off.

I think USCG is engaging in image damage control.

It seems to me that it would take a lot of iPhones, iPads, and GoPros to get to significant current draw. From memory, I think the standard 5W charge adaptor that comes with iPhones has a max output current of 1 amp at 5v and an input of .15 amps at 120v. The iPads come with a 10W or 12W power adapter which I believe will have an input of .45-.5 amps at 120v. I believe that most GoPros are charged with a 10W adapter as well. So just on phones, iPads, and GoPros, you would need to have 40 of them charging to approach 20A and that is if they all were using the higher wattage chargers instead of the 5W that their phones came with. I donít recall what the amp draw is on the newer fast charge adapters such as my Pixel uses, but I think it is still about a .5A

So unless they were charging a whole lot of devices on the same circuit, Iím not sure if the typical devices would be the culprit. So I think the concern about a bunch of folks charging their phones is probably over rated unless we are concerned about those devices batteries catching fire.
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:09 PM   #15
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I would be thinking more about this type of threat; was one aboard? I have no idea.

Its a popular u/w scooter:


"VIPER
30 A/h
Battery chemistry
Lithium
Polymer
Battery size: watt/hours
777

WARNING:

VIPER SCOOTER LITHIUM BATTERY PACKS NOT APPROVED FOR

AIRLINE TRANSPORT IN A PASSENGER AIRCRAFT.


ADVISORY: prepare a dedicated charging area that is cleared of any flammable materials or other equipment; do not charge the scooter in or attached to a dwelling with sleeping occupants, and ensure you have a functioning smoke alarm where the scooter is stored."

for reference: 777 Watt/hours is about the same as a grp 27 deep cycle battery.
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