USCG v USCG AUX

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

So I started this thread to try and understand the "sometimes" attitude between the USCG and AUX. Plus winter is just around the corner.

Every year, in March without fail I have the AUX do a safety inspection of ASD so I can get the nifty sticker to display. We always pass the inspection.

I have been boarded by the USCG in the Columbia River, a few times in Alaska and in Puget sound. Without fail I am told each time by the USCG, when I present the inspection form and sticker from the AUX I get the following response:

We are the "real" Coast Guard and we have our own form and inspection. We don't recognize the AUXs inspection.

OK, so this next year I am considering NOT getting an AUX inspection if it is really a waste of time. I also understand that sometimes the AUX is the only option for a safety inspection in some areas.

Comments? Has this happened else where?

 

[ancora]

That Coastie must have been a week-end warrior who doesn't know anything. Our inspection sticker, in our case, issued by the Power Squadron, works every time.

 

[psneeld]

From a guy who was in the active USCG and supervised USCGAUX flotillas I have mixed emotions.

There are extraordinarily talented and dedicated and informed USCGAUX members doing incredible service to the USCG and the public.

Just like active members of the USCG....plenty of good and bad.

However, the USCGAUX inspections are usually geared to the average boater that is neither highly experienced nor well informed. That usually is only a problem if the USCGAUX member is careful to keep their opinions versus USCG policy/law to themselves. Sometimes their opinions are valuable, but often not much more expert than the more experienced boating public.

Even many USCG boarding officers aren't exactly on target about everything related to small vessels (typical boats owned by TFers), but they are a LOT less likely to wax on with 50 years of boating experiences (those stories can be full of incorrect information).... it is just the nature of the beast.

As one can see/has experienced, neither a USCG nor USCGAUX inspection will ask to see your anchor ball or steaming cone so take both boardings for what they are...not what they could/should be. The USCG boardings are backed by actual law, USCGAUX boardings are "courtesy" boardings to help "inform" the average boater what should/might/ought to be carried but not necessarily mandated by law.

Where I came from, USCGAUX inspections were NOT a free pass to get bypassed by a USCG crew out doing safety inspections or after a SAR incident. There are other issues inspected that the USCGAUX doesn't and aren't allowed to enforce anyhow. As a supervisor, I told my USCG crews to ignore the USCGAUX safety inspection sticker because too many got the sticker hoping it was a free pass so they could do whatever they wanted the rest of the season. I also had them ignore Power Squadron stickers.

 

[smitty477]

Watching the Aux do 100's of inspections over the years they have more value for boaters with little experience and knowledge.
For those there can be a much greater value for these inspections.

 

[Comodave]

They are of value to all boaters. Even if you are an experienced boater they refresh your memory where your safety equipment is located because most of us have it on board but may not actually remember just where it is stowed. Also it checks the dates on the equipment so that you can update the equipment if needed. I did VSCs for most of the 30 years that we were active in the Auxiliary. I could do a check in less than 10 minutes if the boater had previously had an exam and didn’t have questions. Also it could take an hour if they were new boaters and had a lot of questions. Keep in mind that most active duty boat crews are more oriented towards ships and LE activities. Michigan state law says that if you have a current sticker on the boat that STATE LE can’t stop you just to do a safety check, however federal LE, read CG, can. So there is value for all boaters. Some active duty have a bad attitude about the CG Aux, oh well. After 9/11 the CG leadership was very much in favor of the Auxiliary because we had more people and assets than the CG. But it has been 20+ years since and that group of leadership has retired and the current leaders haven’t experienced anything like 9/11 thankfully. But the Auxiliary is still there ready to respond when needed.

 

[MYTraveler]

I get USCG inspection when convenient. Never had a problem passing and never expected the sticker to be any deterrent to a USCG stop and inspection. If it were of value, every drug dealer would have it. Just like the car license plate frames that reflect support for police. Some people figure that will make the difference between a ticket and a warning, but I doubt it. Then again, when I get pulled over in CA there is about a 98% probability that I am getting a ticket.

 

[Bacchus]

I have been w other boats (that I inspected as a USPS Vessel Examiner) with decals and watched USCG board for an inspection. We were on the water so just held our position and didn't get a chance to talk to the coasties.

I have also been inspected, while in a NY Canal lock, by NY State Trooper along w/ 3 other boats I inspected. I was the last of 4 to be inspected and I asked the officer about the inspection(s) when all displayed decals.
He hesitated and then offered that this was not a "normal" stop but was a demo / training for his partner. He added that when inspecting a boat he makes it a practice to inspect others in the immediate vicinity so as not to appear to single anyone out and ignore others... all or none.
My understanding from other similar discussions is that a decal is not a guarantee of no inspection but given a choice LE will always focus on boats w/o stickers vs those with.

Lots of different situations and sometimes factors that we may not be aware of like training, etc that can prompt an inspection.

 

[garbler]

This is a touchy subject for several reasons. The auxiliary are volunteers spending their time and money for the benefit of recreational boaters. They have a generally high presence in local marinas where they communicate well with fellow boaters. Where as the USCG often doesn’t do too well in this department. In most locations I’ve lived in the Auxiliary try to support and promote regional Coast Guard activity. So as a rule they both, on appearances, work together at some level and as long as everybody does their job this mutual relationship works to the small craft owner’s advantage.

But like all organizations the USCG is run by rules, (CFR) but interpreted by personalities so regardless of intent they can sometimes jump the rails. These days more and more recreational and commercial coastwise vessels feel the USCG boards with guns drawn looking for a bust. Not all of course but enough to create dissension and some pretty tough reactions. Please understand the Coast Guard has been given the difficult job of drug interdiction, being little brother to the USN when they can’t do it, and all without enough funding and I believe training. Fighting offshore drug smugglers, illegal alien smuggling and national security after 9/11 in a world of containers is a hard-assed job. It’s almost black and white offshore but if the battle gets inshore it’s hard to tell the good guys from the bad. Coasties get transferred from one job to the next it’s the way it works and with it comes personal baggage. Some hot some cool but until the upper brass can get things figured out that’s the way it is. Of course those saving lives at sea are Gods of the ocean but that’s just one part of the branch. Anybody who has much sea time or close calls never bad mouths and prays for an orange chopper or fast cutter racing to you in any weather. These are the headlines but only part of their job.

The Auxiliary occupies a much more low profile purpose and to many new boaters or those who could care less they bring the same message which is safety. They may not be technically deep or that experienced, though many are, but if they conduct an inspection unless your numb you’ll certainly be thinking about safety of your equipment. Occasionally a commodore gets a little overzealous but it’s that personality thing again. Yes I’ve surveyed lots of small craft which were ‘ Courtesy Inpected ‘ and found obvious problems but the same was found with many USCG inspections, so what. It’s the same if I follow up on other surveyors many times. As psneeld says the USCG has their own job to do and by their rules so if they seem to discount the Auxliary’s work I don’t think it’s meant to be disrespectful of this groups efforts. For years the USCG never dealt with LPG systems and reachable shut off valves or tank installations but the Auxiliary did. They both provide a service one is the law, the other complimentary but safety is the mission.

Rick

 

[alormaria]

I always made sure the boats I examined had the required safety equipment before I put on the sticker.

 

[23435ps]

I think there have been several very good explanations and perspectives presented on this topic. As someone who also has experience as active duty CG in both operational law enforcement and supervisory, I just want to reemphasize that when boarded by an active duty USCG boarding team they will conduct a proper inspection to insure the vessel is in compliance with all US laws and regulations. The presence of a courtesy inspection sticker (from USCGAUX or Power Squadron) will not be a "free pass." However, when one does complete the courtesy inspection it should provide confidence that any CG boarding and inspection will probably go smoothly with no problems. It doesn't hurt pointing out the courtesy inspection and hopefully the boarding officer will recognize that you are a boater who cares about safety. But they will still complete their boarding using the USCG boarding procedures and forms.

 

[Bacchus]

Rick
You make some valid points. My experience and interpretation of many of the critical comments re USCG AUX and USPS Vessel Examiners has been where the examiners were overly zealous and coercing boat owners to be inspected. When that happens and an examiner interprets some aspect incorrectly or overly ridged that's when the negative sentiments get repeated often and loudly!
I NEVER hard sell vessel exams and try to spread the word and offer of vessel examinations softly and rely / respond to owners requests.
I have had one very bad experiences with USCG Aux examiner that not only was incorrect in his interpretation of a requirement but frankly got ugly and was calling anyone that disagreed w him stupid, no nothing, desk jockeys, etc. Up to and including USCG safety instructors and other top brass.
I think it finally caught up with him and not been heard from. Won't elaborate anymore but he created a fair amount of hard feelings and bad reactions to the Aux.

 

[Bacchus]

Are there any active / inactive USCG folks that can confirm if boarding/ inspections get reported and tracked?
Are individuals or teams "expected" to meet some min # of boarding/ inspections as part of the duties? ( patrols not SAR teams)

 

[psneeld]

Thanks Don for a prime example.

Those are the guys who might be few and far between, but their loud, obnoxious and overwhelming personalities spread far and wide making their numbers seem far greater than the actual problem children.

I had to relieve a USCGAUX Coxswain because of the number of boats he damaged towing them in, but the word got out and spread over most of the Delaware Bay area. Actually, the numbers weren't that many, but the actions were so egregious that they were told in stories like "many legends".

But to me, the bottom line is, if you are expecting a free pass from USCG boardings, I wouldn't remotely count on that. Plus, if you are an avid member and pay attention to most topics on TF, then even the educational aspects of a courtesy inspection may be lost on you unless you are lucky enough to get one of the best USCGAUX inspectors.

 

[psneeld]

Are there any active / inactive USCG folks that can confirm if boarding/ inspections get reported and tracked?
Are individuals or teams "expected" to meet some min # of boarding/ inspections as part of the duties? ( patrols not SAR teams)

Yes.... I believe boarding information is reported and tracked. Not sure what data is tracked, but all the way back to the late 80's I believe snowbirds complained about multiple stops in just a few months so boarding reports were tracked so a call by the boarding team could verify if the boat had been stopped on it's way to/from the South.

Quotas are an on again off again method to ensure compliance and proficiency.... they aren't like speeding ticket quotas for revenue.... there are several aspects as to why the small boat stations are encouraged/pushed/ordered to increase/decrease boardings at given times.

Heck if there is a sharp increase in certain crimes, just like any traffic checkpoint...the increased likelihood of spotting crimes makes them valuable law enforcement tools.

 

[dannc]

...
I have had one very bad experiences with USCG Aux examiner that not only was incorrect in his interpretation of a requirement but frankly got ugly and was calling anyone that disagreed w him stupid, no nothing, desk jockeys, etc. Up to and including USCG safety instructors and other top brass.
...

A jerk can give any organization a bad reputation.

I used to work for an organization that did boating inspections. We never, ever, pressured boaters into an inspection and always asked if they wanted one. Many boaters WANTED us to do the inspection because they wanted to show they had the equipment, and many times, to show off their boats. I was fine with both attitudes. The whole point was to make sure the boat had the required safety equipment.

The boaters did get an boating inspection sticker. However, that sticker only meant that the boat, at a given time, passed an inspection. They could go out right after passing an inspection, and the lights that were working at the time of inspection, could stop working.

Officers I worked with would take the stickers into consideration because the stickers showed that the boater was trying to do things correctly and by the book. The inspections by officers, or in a non law enforcement situation, was all about safety.

I have seen, and heard of, people in positions of authority do stupid things in regards to the their "power." All it takes is one of these idiots to ruin things for the public and the organization. The idiots can overshadow and undo the good works of many, many people, the organization and even the profession.

Later,
Dan

 

[slowgoesit]

Quota's

Are there any active / inactive USCG folks that can confirm if boarding/ inspections get reported and tracked?
Are individuals or teams "expected" to meet some min # of boarding/ inspections as part of the duties? ( patrols not SAR teams)

Don, Our boat was boarded off the West Coast of Oahu by the USCG in an inflatable, the cutter looming large on the horizon. Only after boarding did one of the boarding party point out the sticker to the OIC that showed that our boat was a USCG Aux OpFac. The OIC, an Ensign, turned to me and asked somewhat apologetically. "Since you're an OpFac, I know we won't find anything, but do you mind if we inspect anyway? We need the numbers!"

My response was "No problem, would you guys like some coffee as well?" I appreciated his asking, but in reality he didn't have to.

We've had nothing but great interactions with both the USCG, AND the USCGAux. Maybe we've just been lucky.

Now, Fish and Wildlife, or DNR, or local Barney Fife's. . . . they're occasionally totally different stories . . . . It's sad when we know more about their jobs and their authority than they do . . .

(Oh, and they didn't find anything out of order, that or other boardings we've had.)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

AUX Inspection

Generally, on Lake Superior, we have always had a Safety Check done yearly, in our area done by U.S. Power Squadron. I’ve always treated it as a “pre-check” as the local Coast Guard is usually made up of the less experienced guardsmen. I hesitate to say trainees but Station Bayfield does a lot of training. That said, they use the safety stop as a training tool and learn boat handling, civilian interaction, and enforcement tactics that way.

They like to act as though they are on alert and in charge of any situation when they come along side and I have had to laugh when we approached, between islands and headed for a reef and told them to “stand off” while tacked my sailboat and put it on a safe course to prepare for a boarding for a boarding.

The cadet in charge was a bit put off my my orders but after he thought about it he then realized that there would have been no use in having a “Rec Boat” and an official vessel hard aground in the wind and waves.

Anyway, the Safety Check is a tool for the Guard to do their job and if you are in compliance then no harm, no foul.

 

[psneeld]

The "safety check" is not a tool for their job, it IS their job.

 

[Bacchus]

A jerk can give any organization a bad reputation.

Later,
Dan

Dan
That was my point. I have had 99% good interactions with many different authorities. The casecI cited was thec1% and jo intention of disparaging the organization...its all about individuals.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Question. If the USCG finds a violation, they can issue a ticket and court.

USCGAUX can not issue a ticket for a safety violation.

 

[Comodave]

That is correct, the Auxiliary is not LE.

 

[Porgy]

CG Notice of Violation. Spells out how it is issued, fines, etc.

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO%20Documents/National%20Strike%20Force/foscr/ASTFOSCRSeminar/Presentations/JurisdictionandAuthority/NOVUsersGuideCIM_5582_1A.pdf?ver=2017-09-14-144218-880

 

[OldDan1943]

I had an AUX inspection. I took this time to education the Aux inspector.
I also appreciate the Aux pointing out any thing that has expired or needs re-inspection such as the auto release gadgets. Just call it a pre-inspection in prep for a USCG or Local Law inspection. Thank them and go about your day.
In my mind, the order of importance is AUX, Local inspection and finally. (forgive me) the real USCG.

 

[mvweebles]

"Rattler," Hull #1 Willard 36 (1961) was 4 slips down from me when I bought Weebles in 1999 (built in 1970, Weebles, hull #40 was the final W36).

Rattler was owned by a very active Auxiliary husband and wife. In addition to several octogenarian crew, Rattler was home to a rather ill-mannered golden retriever who never failed to leave a deposit on the dock when she jumped off.

Honestly, I never quite understood the Auxiliary. To me, just seemed like a bunch of old codgers hanging around boats. Not unlike TF in some ways I suppose.

I don't know why anyone would think an Auxiliary inspection would shield them from a USCG boarding (unless they've never been boarded). The two events bear no resemblance to one another. My sense is USCG boarding may be done under the pretext of safety, but they are really sizing up the vessel and crew to see if there is something more they should investigate further.

Peter.

 

[psneeld]

Courtesy inspections are exactly some people's issue with overzealous Aux members. On many occasions I have heard them tell people at boat shows all kinds of untruths. One very common one was a sticker will keep the active guys from boarding you. It was a flat comment...not a "it might" statement.

Like many things in life, a person starts out with good intentions, but things change.... so do people. In all walks of life. Some Aux guys let the structure of the organization go to their head, others just like the attention the uniform brings them. Most go about being good,, hard working volunteers.. At public events, people ask them questions that are sometimes above their experience level, and the good ones say I don't know but will get back to you....the not so good BS their way though it.heard it way too many times.

I often saw 3 different types of operational Coasties. Those who joined for only SAR, those with rabid LE sides, and those that just decided to be the best Coastie they could be and gave equal effort for all the USCG mission categories.....13+ and that number seems to change every year.....

 

[jgwinks]

Question. If the USCG finds a violation, they can issue a ticket and court.

USCGAUX can not issue a ticket for a safety violation.

That's the deal. Active CG's role is law enforcement. They find a violation, they can cite you. Aux's role is education. They tell you what you need to correct before the LE guys (CG or local) get thier hands on you. It's not that the sticker stops them from boarding, in fact boarding boats with stickers helps make sure the Aux guys are doing thier job correctly. Records are kept on who did the check, so they can find out who did it if the boat was later found to have violations. (I'm a Retired Member of the Aux, was active with them over 20 years and did many safety checks.)

 

[psneeld]

USCG Multi Mission Nature...Law enforcement is only one part...Boating safety (under maritime prevention) is another of many subsets of the 6 major categories specified in the Homeland Security Act of 2002.

.

 

[SteveK]

Question: Do the real USCG walk the docks and board a vessel or pull into an anchorage and visit boats. OR is it always the dramatic 5 0 pull over a passing boat, because they can for no reason other than it is fun to do.

 

[psneeld]

They tend not to walk docks or board anchored boats because that's not their real mission and some things legally change when you are underway and when not.

Dramatic? Maybe in your mind.......

And if you think boarding boats is a fun job even most of the time, you really ....well never mind......

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

We were approaching K-Town through Tongass Narrows and a USCG rib was hanging around the point. They pulled us over for a safety inspection.

In reality there were 10 newbies getting trained on how to approach a boat, how to do the inspection ect. I looked in and asked how many were in training and they all raised their hands. I laughed and told the big guy in charge to take his time and everyone got to come on board in small groups to see how it was done. We were out there for almost 3 hours. We had our fun with the trainees and they appreciated our willingness to hang out and help with the training.