Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-19-2019, 02:09 PM   #1
Guru
 
soin2la's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
US ownership of a BC boat

A friend, in Portland, spotted a small pleasure craft he likes in BC. The boat has an Alberta “license” (AB###).
The boat would remain in BC and looking online it seems a Canada issued ID is required to transfer ownership:

Valid pieces of identification include the following documents:
--provincial/territorial birth certificate
--certificate of Canadian citizenship
--valid Canadian passport
--provincial/territorial driver's licences
--other forms of government-issued identification (preferably with a photograph)

This being a holiday weekend, we thought someone here might have personal knowledge of this “alien” ownership.

Thank you.
soin2la is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2019, 06:36 PM   #2
Veteran Member
 
City: San Diego
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 68
Ownership is transferred with a bill of sale. The “license document” is not a tltle document. You’d have to call the Alberta licensing people to see if an American can be on record for an Alberta boat license. I’m thinking no, but not sure.

Licensing in BC would trigger the provincial tax people to look for their cut.
Screaming04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2019, 06:51 PM   #3
TF Site Team
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by soin2la View Post
A friend, in Portland, spotted a small pleasure craft he likes in BC. The boat has an Alberta “license” (AB###).
The boat would remain in BC and looking online it seems a Canada issued ID is required to transfer ownership:

Valid pieces of identification include the following documents:
--provincial/territorial birth certificate
--certificate of Canadian citizenship
--valid Canadian passport
--provincial/territorial driver's licences
--other forms of government-issued identification (preferably with a photograph)

This being a holiday weekend, we thought someone here might have personal knowledge of this “alien” ownership.

Thank you.
Our second to last boat was a BC boat, owned by a US citizen, working and living in BC. He bought the boat as a Canadian Registered boat, but as he is not a Canadian, had to de-register and license the boat in BC. Whatever his status was that allowed him to work in BC apparently was good enough to license the boat here. Licensing triggered the obligation to pay the sales tax. The rates are currently 5% GST (Federal) and 7% PST (Provincial).

If your friend hasn't the status to license in BC, he will need to remove the boat to his home jurisdiction and deal with their rules.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2019, 08:17 PM   #4
Guru
 
soin2la's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
Thank you Screamin04.
Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver View Post
If your friend hasn't the status to license in BC, he will need to remove the boat to his home jurisdiction and deal with their rules.
koliver, thank you as well. I've read some of your posts and it seems you know regulations, as well as being active with SAR/CG.
You reinforce our thoughts, but just wonder what "status" entails.

Asked a broker and got a non answer. It's a 26' boat, so taking it OR and back is awkward and would probably cost as much as the boat.

Dealing with local officialdom can't happen until Tuesday and will no doubt take time as well but he will test that and see where it goes.

Thanks again.
soin2la is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2019, 08:55 PM   #5
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,073
Landed immigrant or permanent resident probably.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2019, 09:18 PM   #6
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by soin2la View Post
Thank you Screamin04.
koliver, thank you as well. I've read some of your posts and it seems you know regulations

It's a 26' boat, so taking it OR and back is awkward and would probably cost as much as the boat.
Koliver indeed knows Canadian regulations.

For several years I lived part time in Vancouver, but as a US citizen kept my trailer boat in Washington. When we wanted to zip from WA to BC we'd drop it in the water in Bellingham or trailer it into BC.

It may be easier overall for your friend to buy a trailer boat in WA and use it similarly to what I described. Also there could be an import duty to bring vessel from Canada to US.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2019, 09:40 PM   #7
Guru
 
soin2la's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
Northern Spy/sunchaser, thanks.

It's a private, clean older 26 Tolly, so US built. It just so suits his "next 5 years."
It sold from a BC owner to the current AB resident some time ago.

The broker we questioned said "no problem, just let me handle it."
Not going to happen.

I keep telling him to pick up something in WA and bring it up, but this one checks all the boxes so he's deaf.
soin2la is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2019, 10:56 PM   #8
TF Site Team
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Koliver indeed knows Canadian regulations.

For several years I lived part time in Vancouver, but as a US citizen kept my trailer boat in Washington. When we wanted to zip from WA to BC we'd drop it in the water in Bellingham or trailer it into BC.

It may be easier overall for your friend to buy a trailer boat in WA and use it similarly to what I described. Also there could be an import duty to bring vessel from Canada to US.
After spending a few minutes searching on line:
to license a vessel in BC, which you will need to do if you buy a boat in BC that is to stay in BC, even if the last owner licensed it in Alberta, you will need one of the kinds of ID shown on the vessel licensing web page. For your Portland resident, this will present a difficulty, as the only piece of valid ID that he might acquire is a BC Drivers License. In order to get a valid BCDL he will need to prove that he has become a BC resident, and hold a valid DL from Oregon.
Best bet for him is to see if he can get a license from Oregon electronically, without bringing the boat to Oregon.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2019, 11:05 PM   #9
Guru
 
soin2la's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver View Post
Best bet for him is to see if he can get a license from Oregon electronically, without bringing the boat to Oregon.
Thank you for taking the time away from the BBQ to do that bit of research; very helpful.

We wondered if an OR registry, without the boat being in OR, might be possible and he will look into that tomorrow. It just might add another twist to resale in a few short years though.

I say he keeps looking.
soin2la is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 10:31 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
gsholz's Avatar
 
City: Out and About
Vessel Model: Sold-GB 52 Europa, Queenship 59, Tolly 45
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 484
Yes, you register in OR but I don't think you can take possession of the boat in BC without BC taxes coming due.

You'll need to import the boat into the US, which is simple. Give the customs office you plan on using a call to see what docs beyond bill of sale they require. There should be no duty as it is a US built boat. You have at least 45 days in WA after importing to move the boat back to BC to avoid WA state tax. When you reenter, BC typically allows 6+ months stay for foreign vessels without any tax. Then you enter US again for a few days (make sure you do not stay more than 60 days a year in WA) and go back to BC again. Fuel is cheaper in the US so there is always a reason to go.

Of course, if the value of the boat is low enough it might be simpler to just pay BC or WA sales tax even though you are an OR resident.
gsholz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 10:44 AM   #11
Guru
 
soin2la's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
Thank you gsholz. We understand the mechanics of export, import and OR registration and were wondering if there was a simple solution to leaving it as a BC boat.

Aside from that, the following must be pretty hypothetical as BC marinas have lots of US registered vessels, in the water and on the hard, year round and many rarely casting off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsholz View Post
BC typically allows 6+ months stay for foreign vessels without any tax.
soin2la is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 10:58 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
gsholz's Avatar
 
City: Out and About
Vessel Model: Sold-GB 52 Europa, Queenship 59, Tolly 45
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 484
I don't know how aggressively BC enforces their customs rules. WA is very aggressive. Best is to follow tax/customs rules on either side of the border to the letter.
gsholz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 11:29 AM   #13
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Canada indeed enforces their Customs rules. Best to know what they are and behave accordingly. If one misbehaves they'll kick you out or worse yet impound the vessel. In this age of digital tracking Customs on both sides know where you are and where you've been with backwards tracking available and utilized.

Drugs, terrorist activity and illegals keep us all in the crosshairs. In the OP's case, the simplest route is to buy a US registered vessel or secondly let the broker deal with it to legally get into US. To keep a US vessel in Canada the vessel must be Documented and rules followed for border crossing timing.

Hardly worth the trouble for a trailer boat IMHO.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 11:40 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Pcpete's Avatar
 
City: Mukilteo, WA
Vessel Name: Glauben
Vessel Model: 1988 3818 Bayliner
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 128
He may, at the end of the day, find it easier to bring it back to the states. If the Salish is where he wants to cruise, there are a couple of handy choices. There’s the harbor at Point Roberts, however it’s easy to get weathered in. North Harbor Diesel or their neighbor does dry storage at a very favorable rate in Anacortes, then charges a launch fee. Dagmar’s in Everett is a great choice but further away from the islands and at the same time it’s closer to great cruising in the middle and south sound. The rate includes no limit launches, every day if you want, water and 20amp power. Personally, if I’m going to be 2-300 miles from my boat I’m happier to have it on the hard.
Washington taxes are a 9-10% hit depending on where you do the transfer in my limited experience. Then that kicks off a sliding depreciation secret schedule for the annual sticker taxed at on half of one percent of the value of the boat.
Just some options.
Pcpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 12:07 PM   #15
Guru
 
soin2la's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
Cruising area would be Queen Charlotte Strait and surrounds which is where the boat is located now. OR guy has summers off and access to local accomodation.

No one is contemplating illegality, just simplicity. Maybe a surrogate owner with the blessings of the insurer, as the OR owner is an proven, experienced boater?
soin2la is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 12:36 PM   #16
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by soin2la View Post

No one is contemplating illegality, just simplicity. Maybe a surrogate owner with the blessings of the insurer, as the OR owner is an proven, experienced boater?
You say no illegality and then immediately start talking about a surrogate owner, which clearly in an evasion.

Now, what I'd suggest, is talk to a documentation agent in the area, familiar with the requirements of both countries, the province, and both states. The agent can then guide you with all the possibilities and help you determine what is legal and practical.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 12:58 PM   #17
Guru
 
soin2la's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
You say no illegality and then immediately start talking about a surrogate owner, which clearly in an evasion.

Now, what I'd suggest, is talk to a documentation agent in the area, familiar with the requirements of both countries, the province, and both states. The agent can then guide you with all the possibilities and help you determine what is legal and practical.
Your first comment is bordering on insult.
I posed a thinking outloud question.

What is evasive about BC Bob and OR Owen having an upfront and open dialogue with Bob's longtime insurer, to see if Bob could lend his boat to Owen for the summer?

Your second comment is worthy.
soin2la is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 01:01 PM   #18
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,073
Actually license is a Federal process, not Provincial. It doesn't establish ownership at all. Two owners can be listed on the license.

It actually says on the application, in bold, "Non-residents may use valid government-issued identification from their own country."

Might be over thinking this one.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 01:07 PM   #19
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,073
Nevermind. Not pertinent.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 01:20 PM   #20
Guru
 
soin2la's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
Actually license is a Federal process, not Provincial. It doesn't establish ownership at all. Two owners can be listed on the license.

It actually says on the application, in bold, "Non-residents may use valid government-issued identification from their own country."

Might be over thinking this one.
Northern Spy; great comments and yes we are aware of 1) the difference between "licensed" and "registered" as well as the Feds now doing the paperwork for the provinces.

I thought I had read everything, but obviously missed the four words; "from their own country." Thank you.

Somehow, somewhere, I (mis)read, a second owner had to be Canadian and perhaps I took that to mean a sole owner as well.

Great catch, thank you!
soin2la is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012