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Old 08-16-2016, 12:17 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by AusCan View Post
Here's the formula to calculate what our state allows.

For boats fitted with flybridge the formula for total boat capacity is:

maximum capacity (adults) = 0.6L√B (nearest whole number)
where L = length of boat in metres and B = breadth of boat in metres.

For flybridge boats, no more than one-quarter of the maximum number of passengers allowed on board should be on the flybridge at any one time.



I wouldn't worry about it from a structural point of view, unless you have spongy decks damaged by water ingression. You will be at risk due to stability long before the deck collapses.
That would give you approximately 8 people on his flybridge.
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:21 AM   #22
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All the people in the flying bridge can distract the helmsman. Draft them all as lookouts! If they're not competent in that role, they belong in the saloon. Better to party at anchor or at berth.

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Old 08-16-2016, 01:32 AM   #23
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Or let them party on the flying bridge and command the boat from the main deck. The helmsman isn't helped by social distractions.
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AusCan View Post
Here's the formula to calculate what our state allows.

For boats fitted with flybridge the formula for total boat capacity is:

maximum capacity (adults) = 0.6L√B (nearest whole number)
where L = length of boat in metres and B = breadth of boat in metres.

For flybridge boats, no more than one-quarter of the maximum number of passengers allowed on board should be on the flybridge at any one time.
Seems like draft, displacement and ballast should enter into this formula somehow. A lot of boats like mine carry dinghies that weigh more than the maximum number of people I'd be allowed aloft. That's assuming I got the math right 🤔
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:11 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by herbpeddler View Post
I have looked online and haven't been able to locate the answer to how many people I can safely have on the top deck of our 50' Ocean Alexander Mark 1 Pilothouse. It's the biggest outside area we have, and we have a teak table and chairs up there, so I'm expecting that to be the main 'gathering place,' but I want to restrict it to a safe number. We don't usually have a crowd, but will be taking a few out for a birthday cruise next week. Thanks in advance for any and all advice. We're new to all this, and so glad we ignored the naysayers. We have found the secret to happiness, and it's name is boat!
Why not take the guesswork out of it. There is a formula here...

sa.gov.au - Boat capacity


One quarter of your boat’s total capacity can be on the flybridge at any one time. For example, if the boat’s total safe capacity is 12 persons, the flybridge capacity will be three and main deck capacity nine.
When labeling a boat with a flybridge, ensure the label on the main deck shows only the main deck capacity and the label on the flybridge shows only the flybridge capacity. Both capacities added together represent the boat’s overall safe persons capacity.
The table above covers boats up to 15 metres in length. If your boat is longer than 15 metres, a conservative capacity estimate can be obtained using the formula:
Safe persons capacity = 0.6 x length x √beam

Sorry, Auscan and BandB, I didn't see your posts until too late.
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:23 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AusCan View Post
Here's the formula to calculate what our state allows.

For boats fitted with flybridge the formula for total boat capacity is:

maximum capacity (adults) = 0.6L√B (nearest whole number)
where L = length of boat in metres and B = breadth of boat in metres.

For flybridge boats, no more than one-quarter of the maximum number of passengers allowed on board should be on the flybridge at any one time.



I wouldn't worry about it from a structural point of view, unless you have spongy decks damaged by water ingression. You will be at risk due to stability long before the deck collapses.
In Queensland the same formula is used and determines the numbers displayed on a mandatory capacity label at each helm. For my Mk 1 it works out as 20 people total with no more than 5 on the flybridge/upper deck.

And its for "Smooth Waters Only", a defined term which basically means close to shore. The label also states that numbers MUST be reduced in adverse weather conditions or if you go beyond smooth waters. It might be conservative, but its the law here and ignoring it would get you in really deep poo if anything went wrong.

In NSW I assume the law is different as Ross Walden advertises a carrying capacity of 30 for Blue Eyes II, a Mk 1 that operates commercial cruises in Sydney Harbour. His capacity is for 'enclosed water'. I can't imagine having 32 on board, he must remove all the salon furniture to do that. Not sure if he limits how many on the Upper deck, but imagine he would have to.

Test heel angle at the dock with increasing numbers going to one of the outer rails.
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:12 PM   #27
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Test heel angle at the dock with increasing numbers going to one of the outer rails.
Or, you can call Capt. Bubba and have save the trouble of collecting a group of people to perform the test.
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:39 PM   #28
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Or, you can call Capt. Bubba and have save the trouble of collecting a group of people to perform the test.
Hey...like the power assurance team...

Anytime certain engine work was performed on the USCG helos, there was a requirement to pull full power without getting airborne.

The maintenance manuals called for sandbags, but that took too long.

They would just get on the loud speaker system and say "power assurance team lay to 65xx helo"....all these huge crewmen would jump in the back and they would finish the test.

Capt Bubba would be a 5 star member of the team...but might get in trouble during the annual fitness test...
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:46 PM   #29
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My boat has a sticker at the top of the stairs that lead to the fly bridge that says the maximum safe load when underway is 1500lbs. There is seating on the bridge for 12 people.

Ha ha! Mine has a plaque too....450 lbs (about 2 large people) No parties on my bridge!
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Old 08-16-2016, 02:05 PM   #30
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Here is an example of what can go terribly wrong when too many people are loaded too high on a ship. The Eastland was built just a few miles from where I now sit. It went on to infamy as the greatest disaster on the Great Lakes (while tied to the dock!)

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Old 08-17-2016, 11:48 AM   #31
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Here is an example of what can go terribly wrong when too many people are loaded too high on a ship.

Or more recently the whale watching boat "Leviathan II" off Tofino. Preliminary findings released by Transportation Safety Board of Canada implied the loading of people on the top deck caused the boat to roll over.

"Marc-Andre Poisson, the director of marine investigations with the Transportation Safety Board, released preliminary results of Sunday's accident that claimed five lives. One passenger is still missing.
"We know that most passengers and crew were on the top deck on the port side ... this would have raised the centre of gravity, affecting the vessel's stability," he said during a news conference.
"We also know that the sea conditions were such that the wave approached the vessel from the starboard quarter," he said. "We know the vessel broached and then capsized."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/centre-...-tsb-1.2629258

The investigation continues:

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-in...7/m15p0347.asp


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Old 08-17-2016, 12:51 PM   #32
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Thanks, JDCAVE. It is always good learn from other's experiences both good and bad.

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Old 08-18-2016, 02:51 PM   #33
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Interesting and tragic story about the Eastland. I had not heard of that before.

According to the formula posted from AUS and Queensland, my boat would have a capacity of 16 folks, which would make only 4 on the flybridge. I have factory seating for 8 on the flybridge itself.

I have had 5 large adults on the fly bridge while under way and didn't think about it. I think I will think about it more now.
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Old 08-18-2016, 04:52 PM   #34
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Does this formula only apply to our Australian brothers and sisters because they're almost upside down there anyway?

Far be it from me to argue with an equation, but I still don't see how this could be valid if it doesn't take into consideration hull shape, draft, ballast, height of the flybridge above the water line, whether a vessel has stabilizers and what else is carried aloft. There are probably other factors I'm omitting that an NA could address.

Tad, ol' buddy . . .?
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Old 08-18-2016, 05:19 PM   #35
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I agree with you Angus99 except one point. Don't think stabilizers are allowed to enter into the equation as they merely attenuate motion and do not impart "stability". They can also either fail or fail to be used.
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Old 08-18-2016, 07:19 PM   #36
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Does this formula only apply to our Australian brothers and sisters because they're almost upside down there anyway?
Too easy. Swap draft and height, you`ve nailed it.
We display a decal near the helm stating max pax. Strictly DIY, Maritime send you a blank label and a bunch of number stickers.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:14 AM   #37
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Too easy. Swap draft and height, you`ve nailed it.
We display a decal near the helm stating max pax. Strictly DIY, Maritime send you a blank label and a bunch of number stickers.
Nothing on mine and nothing mentioned when swapping reg and jumping through the 15m+ hoops.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:33 AM   #38
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Nothing on mine and nothing mentioned when swapping reg and jumping through the 15m+ hoops.
Could be NSW specific.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:44 AM   #39
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Could be NSW specific.
No, I got a similar label with numbers to stick in the wee circles when I renewed a registration one time, I think.
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Old 08-19-2016, 05:14 PM   #40
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Curiosity got the better of me so I contacted Ross and asked about his carrying capacity. To recap, Blue Eyes II is in survey for commercial operations in enclosed water in NSW, and is an Ocean Alexander Mk1, 50'3" LOA and 15'6" beam, approx. 60,000# half fluid load. Same as my boat and that of the OP.

Ross said that now commercial vessels are now certified under AMSA (Australian Maritime Safety Authority) throughout Australia. It was originally certified by NSW marine surveyors 18 years ago. As far as he is aware the carrying capacity and limit for people on the top deck was established during an on-water stability test. It is certified to carry 32 people (including crew) with a limit on the upper deck of 16. That is a huge difference to the SA and Qld state rules, 20 and 5 respectively, and properly determined as opposed to calculated by a generic equation.

My boat has Australian registration with AMSA (a once-only fee) but is also required to have Qld state registration, an annual fee. This is just revenue raising as Qld state govt. provides no services to boaters to speak of. Any facilities are provided by local govt. So, it seems I could ignore the mandatory capacity label limiting me to 5 up top, and put 16 there if I wanted to. They would fit OK without the 14' RIB up there. Don't you just love bureaucrats and their desktop formulas?

Of course I'm not going anywhere near the 32/16 limit - it would feel like being in a peak-hour suburban train!
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