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Old 02-21-2016, 07:35 PM   #21
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The thru-hull issue may be a Euro-US difference. Seems to me I recall reading elsewhere that the CE standards were different both as to bonding and to metallurgy of bronze thru-hulls. IIRC correctly, there was some controversy or at least disagreement over the issue.
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Old 02-21-2016, 08:17 PM   #22
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Our ST 44

We took delivery of our ST 44 early Spring 2015 and put 1500 miles on her last season - in various sea conditions including fog and snow and all without concerns in terms of handling/performance. This is our 2nd ST - we up graded from a 34 which we had for over 3 years.
I too am looking at upgrading the bilge pumps and associated alarms and will look into the bonding dicusssion - but the Beneteau non bonded installation proved to be a non issue with our ST 34 during our ownership.
PS - I have my eye on the new Vulcan anchor to upgrade from the Delta.
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:09 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubones99 View Post
CeeBee, did your surveyor check for brass thru-hulls in the ST?
I know the early ST through 2005 or so all had brass thru-hulls that crumbled within 10 years and Beneteau says it is the owner's maintenance problem, not bad design.
Hi stubones
Yes Sir, I believe they use Groco bronze thru hulls. NOT my first or 20th choice

Here is an "official response"

For more than a decade, Beneteau has been installing brass thru hulls which
composition is CuZn40Pb2 (CW617N). The composition is defined as follow: Zn40= 38% zinc, Pb2= 2% of lead, andthe rest as copper 58% Others materials, aluminium, tin, nickel, steel, manganese, silicium,
antimony as well as arsenic are used to a total of 2%.
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:20 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOJOURN4 View Post
We took delivery of our ST 44 early Spring 2015 and put 1500 miles on her last season - in various sea conditions including fog and snow and all without concerns in terms of handling/performance. This is our 2nd ST - we up graded from a 34 which we had for over 3 years.
I too am looking at upgrading the bilge pumps and associated alarms and will look into the bonding dicusssion - but the Beneteau non bonded installation proved to be a non issue with our ST 34 during our ownership.
PS - I have my eye on the new Vulcan anchor to upgrade from the Delta.
SOJOURN4,
Was the 34 with or without the fly bridge?
I'd like to hear more about your move (and anyone else that would like to chime in) to a larger boat.
I hope to liveaboard and will be singlehanded the majority of the time.
Thx
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:22 AM   #25
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Hi CeeBee, great post and feedback here. I'm learning a lot for repairs and upgrades to my boat. Do you mind telling us what kind of house bank batteries you used and are your underwater lights blue? How many? Did you just use blue LEDs in your stock deck light fittings? Looks like a very fun upgrade there. Thanks.

Kevin
Hey Kevin, glad it helped. I actually don't recall the make/model, they are "Big muthers" Dual purpose flooded Marine batteries. We made room for them midships and on both the Port and Starboard side of the engines.

Underwater lights, we installed 2 Blue LEDs underwater and they are awesome. We also picked up some fish food from the dock in Avalon and put some in the water to start the show.

Correctamundo we just changed out the stock white LEDs lights with Blue ones using the same fitting. Definitely easier on the eyes at night and looks cool.
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:31 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOJOURN4 View Post
We took delivery of our ST 44 early Spring 2015 and put 1500 miles on her last season - in various sea conditions including fog and snow and all without concerns in terms of handling/performance. This is our 2nd ST - we up graded from a 34 which we had for over 3 years.
I too am looking at upgrading the bilge pumps and associated alarms and will look into the bonding dicusssion - but the Beneteau non bonded installation proved to be a non issue with our ST 34 during our ownership.
PS - I have my eye on the new Vulcan anchor to upgrade from the Delta.
HA at least we don't have SNOW to deal with Agree the ST44 design performs extremely well in all kinds of sea states. We were going back uphill from Santa Cruz in 9' swells Happy to pass along the info on the pumps, alarm and control panels we used if you want to PM me.

Yep, the Delta isn't the best choice for the boat we upgraded to a Manson Supreme 75' with all chain rode and even anchoring out overnight in the SF bay with some pretty extreme currents has never budged an inch. Before we changed it out that was not the case.
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:37 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeBee View Post

Here is an "official response"

For more than a decade, Beneteau has been installing brass thru hulls which
composition is CuZn40Pb2 (CW617N). The composition is defined as follow: Zn40= 38% zinc, Pb2= 2% of lead, andthe rest as copper 58% Others materials, aluminium, tin, nickel, steel, manganese, silicium,
antimony as well as arsenic are used to a total of 2%.
And my official response to them.

For more than a decade, Beneteau has been receiving widespread criticism over their thru hulls. Some of those issues may be related to ground fault issues or other problems on the boat, at the marinas or with other boats they are near. However, the issues persist and the complaints and reports are too widespread to be ignored. Beneteau chooses to bury it's head in the sand. By doing so, they hurt themselves and their reputation and tarnish the images of some otherwise very nice boats. They also damage the resell of their boats. While I am not a potential purchaser of a Swift Trawler, if I was I would be concerned about the thru hulls and the electrical wiring and systems. That's a shame as I know many very happy owners and I think the boat fits a niche in the market that otherwise is sadly lacking.

Oh, and just because you have done something for a decade doesn't mean it's the best way to do it.
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:09 PM   #28
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Hi stubones
Yes Sir, I believe they use Groco bronze thru hulls. NOT my first or 20th choice

Here is an "official response"

For more than a decade, Beneteau has been installing brass thru hulls which
composition is CuZn40Pb2 (CW617N). The composition is defined as follow: Zn40= 38% zinc, Pb2= 2% of lead, andthe rest as copper 58% Others materials, aluminium, tin, nickel, steel, manganese, silicium,
antimony as well as arsenic are used to a total of 2%.
First I have heard of a problem with Groco products.
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeBee View Post
Here is an "official response"

For more than a decade, Beneteau has been installing brass thru hulls which
composition is CuZn40Pb2 (CW617N). The composition is defined as follow: Zn40= 38% zinc, Pb2= 2% of lead, andthe rest as copper 58% Others materials, aluminium, tin, nickel, steel, manganese, silicium,
antimony as well as arsenic are used to a total of 2%.
Regardless what they say, keep an eye out for dezincification which is the leaching of zinc from the brass and will turn the brass into a pink colored metal that is porous and brittle. Brass has no business anywhere near salt water.

it may be their choice, but it's your boat, and your lives to save.

Also, if you plan to go offshore or in cold water climates, you might want to invest in one (or two) fastflow bilge pumps. These pumps fit around your prop shaft and if water ever gets up that high, as long as the engine(s) is running will pump far more than your electric bilge pumps. They are 'automatic' in that if the prop is spinning, so is the pump. They have no problem running dry, since it is a centrifugal pump with no seals to wear out. The amazing thing is they work regardless of which direction the prop shaft is turning.
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:36 PM   #30
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First I have heard of a problem with Groco products.
It isn't a groco problem, it's an alloy problem. The formulation he quoted is actually Brass C352, which is brass that is designed to resist dezincification. It is not as good as a decent bronze fitting.

If you put brass in salt water, it will eventually leach the zinc out of the alloy, leaving a brittle metal left behind.

Everything I've read, been told, etc, says only use bronze or Marelon thru-hull fittings.
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:55 PM   #31
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Here's what was posted....

"Hi stubones
Yes Sir, I believe they use Groco bronze thru hulls. NOT my first or 20th choice "

He said bronze thru hulls....yet the composition report report was from the boat manufacturer.

So hard to really tell...but I have never heard of a bronze Groco through hull or sea cock have issues except if some older ball valves were chromed balls and they pitted from not being exercised.
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
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SOJOURN4,
Was the 34 with or without the fly bridge?
I'd like to hear more about your move (and anyone else that would like to chime in) to a larger boat.
I hope to liveaboard and will be singlehanded the majority of the time.
Thx
CERVELO -
Our ST 34 did have a fly bridge - which we ran the boat from 95% of the time - Wx permitting. The fly adds significant liveable area. We traded up since we felt we needed just a bit more space. Our ST 34 was sold to a couple that was coming East to cruise the coast.
The 34 was a great handling boat - even with a single engine. Bow and stern thrusters made it almost impossible to get into trouble. Economy was +/- 1.2 GPM and top speed was +/- 23 MPH.
Singlehand was never an issue since you have great access from the helm station to the bow and stern.
Good luck
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:52 PM   #33
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Also, if you plan to go offshore or in cold water climates, you might want to invest in one (or two) fastflow bilge pumps. These pumps fit around your prop shaft and if water ever gets up that high, as long as the engine(s) is running will pump far more than your electric bilge pumps. They are 'automatic' in that if the prop is spinning, so is the pump. They have no problem running dry, since it is a centrifugal pump with no seals to wear out. The amazing thing is they work regardless of which direction the prop shaft is turning.[/QUOTE]

Good tip on the Fastflow Bilge Pumps, interesting.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:11 PM   #34
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Fastflow pumps are awesome. The big issue however is most of us do not have enough space between the coupler and the stuffing box to mount it. Most of the smaller pumps are long.

If you can mount one low in the bilge and power it some other way it's great. They pass large objects and can run dry forever. Therefore they could be run off the engine constantly without a clutch or other engagement mechanism.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:40 PM   #35
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Fastflow pumps are awesome. The big issue however is most of us do not have enough space between the coupler and the stuffing box to mount it. Most of the smaller pumps are long.

If you can mount one low in the bilge and power it some other way it's great. They pass large objects and can run dry forever. Therefore they could be run off the engine constantly without a clutch or other engagement mechanism.
Solid feedback, As the post pointed out we just added 3 heavy duty Jabsco pumps and water alarms in three areas. But to your point they are only capable of limited volume as compared to the Fastflow. I'll do some more research because as you point out the size my just not be practical.

Honestly the fact an alarm sounds giving early notification so we can diagnose the issue quickly provides me with more feeling of security than the pumps which are obviously a solid and better addition than nothing.

Since I'm unfamiliar with them and this may be a stupid question but If they weren't connected to the rotation of the shafts what then would provide the power?
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:51 PM   #36
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CERVELO -
Our ST 34 did have a fly bridge - which we ran the boat from 95% of the time - Wx permitting. The fly adds significant liveable area. We traded up since we felt we needed just a bit more space. Our ST 34 was sold to a couple that was coming East to cruise the coast.
The 34 was a great handling boat - even with a single engine. Bow and stern thrusters made it almost impossible to get into trouble. Economy was +/- 1.2 GPM and top speed was +/- 23 MPH.
Singlehand was never an issue since you have great access from the helm station to the bow and stern.
Good luck
Cervelo, Agree with Soujoun, even the 44 is easy to single hand with the easy access and door immediately adjacent to the helm station. You can tie off amidships pull the bow rode up next to the entryway once secure walk up and tie off. On the 44, with two props we only use them for maneuverability in close quarters rather than the rudders and as he points out Bow and Stern thrusters are super useful.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:09 PM   #37
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There are pumps that can be rigged to hydraulics or belt driven, but they are different than the clamp on design of fast flow pumps. They all split down the middle so you don't have to drop the shaft to install them. You install the impeller first, then the outer pump housing. I guess I have not seen too many boats that didn't have 5" of space between the transmission and the shaft seal / stuffing box.

The biggest downside is that you should add a high water alarm switch above your regular bilge pumps, to tell you that you have a BIG problem and don't switch it into neutral.

I wonder if that boat that sank off Ft Lauderdale would have gone down had she been equipped with Fast Flow pumps.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:37 PM   #38
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I have personally held on to a fire hose being feed by a 2" Fastflow pump. One man can barely hang on to it. Steve the owner of the company was my neighbor. He had a demo unit in his back yard we would play with from time to time. If I had the room I'd have one!
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:44 PM   #39
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I wonder if that boat that sank off Ft Lauderdale would have gone down had she been equipped with Fast Flow pumps.
That boat sinking makes no sense. The suggested cause doesn't pass the sniff test. But you have to wonder about alarms and pumps and the sinking being unavoidable by the time help arrived. They weren't that far from their starting point or that far offshore.
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Old 02-24-2016, 01:25 AM   #40
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CeeBee-

Are those underwater lights installed through the hull, or did you run the wiring above the waterline?

Interesting about how you prefer exterior blue lights as easier on the eyes.
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