Upgrade to vacuflush

[Bacchus]

RV's that are switching to VF are mostly the bath & a half layouts and have extended runs to the tank.
Most others use the gravity flow into the tank below and are simpler than a macerator. Some RVs offer a macerator on the tank discharge but that seems unnecessary as most are gravity drain and fairly close by. Not much to go wrong with gravity so I don't see the point in complicating things... KISS works for me.

A far bigger market than boats, are RVs. Price point is a big deal. To this day, VF are very common if not the choice, not sure why if cost a major decider. Maybe buy in volume?

Edit.... Peggie beat me to it

 

[Comodave]

We put a macerator on our RV and it is great. It uses a 1” hose instead or the 3” and it can pump several hundred feet and uphill. Way better than the gravity dump.

 

[Comodave]

The holding tanks on most RVs are directly below the toilet or if offset, it's still where it can be a straight "shot" from the bowl to the tank. Are you sure it's VF toilets on RVs and not Dometic (formerly SeaLand) direct drop gravity toilets that use the same bowl?


--Peggie

Ours looks like a Vacuflush head in our RV but it is the direct gravity drop that Peggie is referring to.

 

[Tom.B]

Listen to Peggy: I just removed my 2 vacuflush & replaced them with Marine Elegance - fresh water & love them. Very simple set-up and the space I gained by removing the vacuum generators makes any future service a breeze.

We did the exact same. All Navigators came with VF. If I had to guess, they lay the keel, installed the VC generators, then built the boat around that. The VF system could have been on Jupiter and it would have been easier to get access to. So in the end, a $10 duckbill replacement turned into a $2000 dual toilet replacement... and we don't regret it at all! Get the smart controller too. We use the normal flush most of the time, but are starting to learn to just pump the bowl every so often to conserve water when needed. But we have 170g onboard, so it isn't a huge deal. Just good practice.

 

[Comodave]

The vacuum generator was around $1,600.00
The 140 series model from Dometic was around $700.00

Boat show deals could be had for 10% off and a $300 rebate if bought from a dealer at the show.

I have an issue with limited space on the platform where the head in located. I'm going to measure to see if I can fit a Raritan Marine Elegance with the angled back. Otherwise I'm looking at the "Raritan SeaEra QC Toilet".

https://www.defender.com/product.js...-toilet&path=-1|51|2234284|2234291&id=4153914

It can fill ONLY(with momentary ON to control volume) and flush ONLY (this is a big deal for a couple of beer drinkers), or fill and flush simultaneously.

It can use BOTH fresh and raw water, and you can flip a switch to choose which one. The footprint looks identical to the Jabsco electric flush I have installed now and it takes 1" hose.

I'm not sure how the "SeaEra QC" compares to the "Marine Elegance" model.


(The scope of this thread sure took an unexpected turn).

Well to me it looks like you will save about $1600 and get an easier to fix head and not have to give up room for a vacuum generator. In my mind a no brainer.

 

[angus99]

I removed the Vacuflush from our aft head and Jabsco manual flush from the fwd cabin and replaced them with Marine Elegance units, following Peggie’s excellent guidance. The space we gained under the vanity—after removing the VF apparatus—gave us more than enough room for a Purasan plus storage. One of the best mods we’ve made on the boat to date. Simply no comparison to noise levels, ease of use and odor elimination.

 

[Comodave]

How do you like the Purasan? How much work is it to maintain?

 

[HeadMistress]

I have an issue with limited space on the platform where the head in located. I'm going to measure to see if I can fit a Raritan Marine Elegance with the angled back. Otherwise I'm looking at the "Raritan SeaEra QC Toilet".
https://www.defender.com/product.js...-toilet&path=-1|51|2234284|2234291&id=4153914

It can fill ONLY(with momentary ON to control volume) and flush ONLY (this is a big deal for a couple of beer drinkers), or fill and flush simultaneously.

It can use BOTH fresh and raw water, and you can flip a switch to choose which one. The footprint looks identical to the Jabsco electric flush I have installed now and it takes 1" hose.

I'm not sure how the "SeaEra QC" compares to the "Marine Elegance" model. (The scope of this thread sure took an unexpected turn).

The version of the SeaEra QC shown on the Defender link you provided includes the optional "SeaFresh" system...you'd have to add a remote intake pump to use sea water. The fresh water only version is here: Raritan SeaEra QC freshwater That multi-option flush control adds another $150-250 depending on where you buy it.

As for how the SeaEra QC compares to the Elegance...they're so close to the same price that I consider the QC to be an "Elegance Jr." The only real reason to go with it instead of the Elegance is the ability to aim the pump/motor assembly to either side, giving you front-back room that the Elegance doesn't.

So try to make the Elegance fit, 'cuz it's available from this retailer Hopkins Carter Marine Raritan Marine Elegance for about $700 INCLUDING the "smart flush" panel. You'd still have to add the SeaFresh system and a remote intake pump to be able to both fresh and sea water.

--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

The fiberglass platform that my head sits on is a bit small for the Marine Elegance and it has 3 or 4 large holes in it that will not be used anymore. I got a piece of 3/4” hardwood plywood and cut it to fit the platform and slightly larger so the ME will fit and the plywood will cover all of the large old holes in the fiberglass. I painted it white and hopefully it will fit but I won’t know for sure until I take the old head out.

 

[HeadMistress]

I suggest you fill the holes to prevent water intrusion through 'em, unlikely as that may be. With that platform covering the step, you wouldn't know there is any until the damage was substantial. Unnecessary work prob'ly...but I've always believed that it's hard to go wrong erring on the side of caution.


--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

I suggest you fill the holes to prevent water intrusion through 'em, unlikely as that may be. With that platform covering the step, you wouldn't know there is any until the damage was substantial. Unnecessary work prob'ly...but I've always believed that it's hard to go wrong erring on the side of caution.


--Peggie

Good idea and simple to do.

 

[DD788Snipe]

It's a poly tank with the inlet on the top. It looks like it's threaded, though I didn't measure it.

A fairly easy job to install a new 1. 5" inlet ftting in the tank using a Uniseal UNISEAL

I want to moving to vacuflush for a few reasons.
1) Holding tank capacity: The electric flush uses raw water and far too much of it. I have a 30 gallon holding tank that I need to empty more frequently than I would like.

2) Odor: The electric flush uses raw water. I only use the boat on weekends. The saltwater leaves an odor in the head after baking in the heat for a week.

3) Noise: The electric flush is loud

You're assuming that all electric macerating toilets are alike. Most are available in both sea water and pressurized flush versions. While all sea water toilets are noisier than those the use fresh water, some are a lot noisier than others. The Raritan Marine Elegance Raritan Marine_Elegance Promo.pdf --the top rated electric toilet--is VERY quiet...in fact the quietest. It's designed to use pressurized fresh water. The optional "Smart Flush" panel provides 4 flush options that will actually allow you to use LESS water than the VacuFlush actually needs to prevent problems. And there are several others you might like.

I estimate that at least 75% of the toilet problems I've seen in the 30 years I've been a specialist in marine sanitation are problems with VacuFlush, and that at least 9o% of 'em are caused by owners putting too little water through 'em. It's the reason I wrote a piece I call "VacuFlush 101" that describes how it works (an amazing number of owners think they know, but actually don't) and how much water it actually needs. I'll be glad to send it to you if you'll send me a PM that includes your email address (no way to attach anything to a PM). An earlier poster said it's 1980s technology...it's even older. It's changed so little except cosmetically since Mansfield Plumbing introduced it in 1978 (they spun off their entire marine toilet division to SeaLand Technology in 1984) that the same troubleshooting guide still works for all years, all models.

And btw...VacuFlush was the toilet on my last two boats and I was a distributor/dealer for nearly 10 years, so I'm intimately acquainted with it. If I were looking at used boats that already has one installed, it wouldn't be a deal breaker, but macerating electric toilet technology has changed so much in the last 20 years that I wouldn't spend my own money for another one.

Send me a PM...and I'll not only send you "VF 101" but I'll be glad to answer all your questions about it and every other toilet.

--Peggie

crobe15645@gmail.com Please send it to me. I can use all the information I can get.
Thanks. It would be much appreciated.

 

[HeadMistress]

Should be landing in you inbox as I write this. And I'll be glad to send it to anyone else who requests it.


-Peggie

 

[mickand]

You are crazy - Vaccuflush is going backwards.
I ripped mine out and installed an Elegance.
Footprint no larger and so much better

 

[tadhana]

Add me to the list of those who ask : Why? Been in the boat business my whole life. I have installed a number of Vacuflush systems. Have serviced a lot of heads. Almost all were Vacuflush. We have had 2 Jabsco electric heads and in 11 years of full time live aboard have had to replace the seals in each head one time, and changed the joker valve because the head was already apart.

 

[Luther H]

Peggy,
Please send me the VF 101 guidelines. I greatly appreciate your informative contributions to this site. In addition, your how to solution responses include a good technical explanation of why it works that way. I have your book on board and use it as I consider how increase vent line size and add a second vent.
Thank you,
cowdenl@aol.com

 

[88FuHwa]

I converted our two heads to VF over 10 years ago. They are both on a single pump system and I have had no problems at all except having to change out the duck bills every few years. Quite simple, actually. I don't get it when others on this forum say that the system is complicated. It is a lot quieter than the electric systems that I have seen/heard and water usage is minimal. If there were a better system, wouldn't the airlines utilize it?

 

[catalinajack]

I converted our two heads to VF over 10 years ago. They are both on a single pump system and I have had no problems at all except having to change out the duck bills every few years. Quite simple, actually. I don't get it when others on this forum say that the system is complicated. It is a lot quieter than the electric systems that I have seen/heard and water usage is minimal. If there were a better system, wouldn't the airlines utilize it?

Exactly, changing the duckbills every few years, a nasty, dirty, unsanitary job, maintenance. A Marine Elegance electric head is flush and forget for many years and service is a no-brainer when it does require service. The fact that you have not had problems means very little. Listen to Peggy. I did. Five plus years of ownership, living aboard for three years now. As I said, flush and forget. As for the airplane analogy, well, tell us why the airlines use what they use instead of asking why they use what they use.

 

[Comodave]

Fedex just delivered my new Marine Elegance head today. I will be installing it over the winter while I have my port engine out to replace the fuel tank. With the engine out it will be much much easier to access the area that I have to run the waste hoses. I am also going to add a second vent hose while I am at it along with a Groco Sweetank air pump system.

 

[stevemitchell]

Ask Peggie about how much water Vacuflush actually use, not their sales pitch. The Marine Elegance can be fresh water flush if you choose that setup. I just ordered one yesterday for our current boat. We put one in a previous boat and I didn’t think it was loud. I think that the ME will not use any more water than a Vacuflush and the ME can use 1” discharge so you can flush it completely with less water.

I just replaced a whole Vacuflush setup with two brand new Raritan Marine Elegance heads about a month ago. My main reasons were similar to the above - the water usage of the Vacuflush was much, much higher than their sales pitch. I talked with Peggie for an hour about the pros and cons to various systems, with the Vacuflush being one of the least desirable.

That, combined with the size of the Vacuflush vacuum generators, amount of spare parts you need, the cost of them, and the yearly maintenance required, and I was sold.

 

[Greggnvt]

Vacuflush - Mine works GREAT

On our boat, one head is a Vacuflush and the other is Jabsco electric. The Vacuflush gets used several times a day - our primary head.

Plumbing: Our setup goes from the 1.5" flex hose, connects to 1" PVC - straight run through the engine room and then back to 1.5" flex hose and into the top of the holding tank. Guessing the entire run is..18 or so feet - 1" PVC run is about 8'.

I like having two separate systems in case there is an issue with one head. And yes, TP goes into the Vacuflush.

Not real impressed with the Jabsco head but it does work (noisy!).

Gregg
48' Chris Craft Catalina

 

[rgano]

Does the Elegance installation instruction have a specified drop to tank? Can the VF solve the issue where a sufficient drop is not there?

 

[angus99]

How do you like the Purasan? How much work is it to maintain?

Sorry, just saw your question. We LOVE the Purasan. Once it’s programmed properly—which is drop dead easy—it works exactly as advertised. You need to follow directions to the letter winterizing it—no antifreeze, so it must be drained—but it’s surprisingly easy to do and not at all unpleasant. Changing the tablets every 75 flushes or so is a 5-10 minute job. It’s quality equipment and not having to worry about pump outs in most cruising areas is the best part.

 

[Comodave]

Does the Elegance installation instruction have a specified drop to tank? Can the VF solve the issue where a sufficient drop is not there?

No specified drop to tank that I see. It has a maximum 10’ high vented loop with no distance to the tank. The maximum height drops with increased distance to the tank, for example the maximum height is 7’ with a hose length of 68’. You have to take into account 90s, Ys etc in the distance to the tank. I suppose if the tank were at the height of the ME then you could run the discharge hose up like a vented loop to get a drop to the tank. That is a guess on my part though. Maybe ask Peggie to be sure.

 

[Comodave]

Sorry, just saw your question. We LOVE the Purasan. Once it’s programmed properly—which is drop dead easy—it works exactly as advertised. You need to follow directions to the letter winterizing it—no antifreeze, so it must be drained—but it’s surprisingly easy to do and not at all unpleasant. Changing the tablets every 75 flushes or so is a 5-10 minute job. It’s quality equipment and not having to worry about pump outs in most cruising areas is the best part.

Ok, thanks for the info.

 

[HeadMistress]

Peggy,
Please send me the VF 101 guidelines. I greatly appreciate your informative contributions to this site. In addition, your how to solution responses include a good technical explanation of why it works that way. I have your book on board and use it as I consider how increase vent line size and add a second vent. Thank you, cowdenl@aol.com

It should be landing in your inbox as I type here. And I'll be glad to help you figure how to best increase the ventilation to your tank.


--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

Peggie,

What fitting goes into a Uniseal? I don’t remember. I am going to be adding at least one, maybe two 1” vents into my holding tank.

 

[HeadMistress]

Does the Elegance installation instruction have a specified drop to tank? Can the VF solve the issue where a sufficient drop is not there?


I don't understand the question.



--Peggie

 

[HeadMistress]

Peggie, What fitting goes into a Uniseal? I don’t remember.

A short piece of PVC pipe--straight, 45 or 90 depending on what you need--becomes the hose fitting. Just be sure sure the OD of the pipe is the same size as the ID of the hose that has to fit onto it.



--Peggie

 

[rgano]

Does the Elegance installation instruction have a specified drop to tank? Can the VF solve the issue where a sufficient drop is not there?


I don't understand the question.



--Peggie

It was probably an erroneous reference on my part to dirt home installations which require a "plumber's drop" in sewage lines. I was wondering if after the push up the vented loop what the drop to the tank should be to ensure the stuff gets where it has to go. Then thinking of how the VF works, would it overcome an uphill battle to the tank?