Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-13-2013, 06:31 PM   #41
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tingum View Post
Who was overseeing the work? That is who is responsible! I cannot believe a small businessman would let you leave without paying in full, if your vessel is documented, watch out for a lien!
Quite correct. The last thing you want is a Federal Marshall walking down the dock, and stringing yellow tape impounding the boat. Large impoundment placards pasted on the windows are not very complimentary to the boat. The guys in Lauderdale and Stuart will file very quickly. Sometimes it's just best to chalk it up to experience.

If the guy offers to work it out with you, he is probably better than some.

Edit:

I think some of the boat service people look for people who are moving o n right after they work. You may have noticed they will put off the work until the last minute not giving time for a proper shakedown. It happened to a friend of mine leaving Destin with a new boat purchase for Bradenton. Entering Tampa Bay he lost a turbo because it was not connected properly. Expensive lesson learned.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 06:31 PM   #42
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tingum View Post
Who was overseeing the work? That is who is responsible! I cannot believe a small businessman would let you leave without paying in full, if your vessel is documented, watch out for a lien!
We are. It will be taken care of.

BTW, we wrote a personal check when we bought our boat.
__________________

__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 08:23 PM   #43
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 799
Joe Hamilton of Advantage Yacht sales is a great broker in Stuart. He may be able to help you with this situation, or at least send you to a good mechanic.
Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 08:26 PM   #44
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
If a lien shows up, bond it and file lawsuit. If you have work order and can prove work was not done that was billed, get sworn statements from licensed mechanic/ photos and get an attorney.

Scum bags that bill for work not done or done wrong need to get burned. To many good guys working hard for a buck losing work to them.

Also go after them for fraudulent lien, it's criminal.
SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 09:36 PM   #45
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tingum View Post
Who was overseeing the work? That is who is responsible! I cannot believe a small businessman would let you leave without paying in full, if your vessel is documented, watch out for a lien!
Seriously? The guy you contact oversees the work except for "you" the owner. The contractor leaves for the night and you leave with your boat...yard doesn't care if it's an independent.

You can sail away anytime...and as far as a lien...maybe the contractor wants the paperwork nightmare, maybe not...if he knows he did a lousy job...not being paid in full may just be part of the game.

Let's see...a layer is gonna be well over $2000 probably just to get to the negotiating table and the rest of the bill is $1300...plus your time...not sure about the cost/benefit numbers...but it's starting to sound lose/lose if the guy files a lien.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 09:59 PM   #46
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,561
Over here, a lien means retaining possession of the boat until paid, I`m getting the boat is back with beachbum.That sounds more like a Court ordered arrest.
With $1300 retained, the mechanic has an interest in resolution.
Putting things in writing might help hold him to account,doesn`t always help getting work done right. Despite clear written insts,renewing an engine FW cooling system manifold air bleed valve became a (leaking) fuel/air bleed valve fitted to a primary fuel filter housing, it leaked fuel into the bilge, which.... He got sacked.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 11:39 PM   #47
Veteran Member
 
The Cobber's Avatar
 
City: Cocoa
Country: FL
Vessel Name: White Rose
Vessel Model: 1988 Jefferson 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougcole View Post
Joe Hamilton of Advantage Yacht sales is a great broker in Stuart. He may be able to help you with this situation, or at least send you to a good mechanic.
I concur completely. We are still searching, but on our last trip to FL Joe showed us a couple of boats and spent a LOT of time with us and still stays in touch. Knowledgable, honest, and very very helpful.
The Cobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 08:47 AM   #48
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,848
Coming down Core Creek into Morehead City I encountered a 48' Hatteras motor yacht on a shoal. They asked for assistance getting off. They sent a line over, and I tried to no avail. They then called the USCG at Ft. Macon. Coast Guard pulled them off on a rising tide. They came limping into the MC Yacht Basin. Later that night a Federal Marshall came down, ordered them off the boat, and impounded it. A yard in Ft. Lauderdale had filed a lien for work on the boat. The USCG had placed the boat on their watch list. When the call came in it was reported to the authorities. The boat sat at MCYB incurring slip charges for weeks until the issue was settled. There were no happy faces around that boat. The owner was not even allowed aboard, nor could they remove anything.
__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 10:57 AM   #49
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
That sounds more like a Court ordered arrest.
Bruce, that is exactly what it appears to be. The lien goes against the boat, and in effect it is arrested. It stays in limbo until the lien is satisfied one way or another. I have not looked into bonding off a lien, but if a surety is involved it would take some time.
__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 10:58 AM   #50
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,950
Ouch! That hurts.
Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 11:50 AM   #51
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
It is amazing the amount of power someone can wield with a government form. I hope the facility was correct in the action they took.

An acquittance of mine, also a G.C. was building a seven story medical center and after applying for a rather large draw they were told that there was a lien on the property holding up payment. Turns out the lien was from an HVAC company that did no work on the building and had misfiled the lien on the wrong property. When contacted he was uninterested in putting off his fishing trip for three days to clear up the matter and suggested they call the other contractor and help him get his money.

His insurance company was not happy nor were his attorney, it cost him a bunch, somewhat north of $35k for a lien of less then $2,500.

The sward cuts both ways.
SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 01:20 PM   #52
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTTEDAVIS View Post
It is amazing the amount of power someone can wield with a government form. I hope the facility was correct in the action they took.

An acquittance of mine, also a G.C. was building a seven story medical center and after applying for a rather large draw they were told that there was a lien on the property holding up payment. Turns out the lien was from an HVAC company that did no work on the building and had misfiled the lien on the wrong property. When contacted he was uninterested in putting off his fishing trip for three days to clear up the matter and suggested they call the other contractor and help him get his money.

His insurance company was not happy nor were his attorney, it cost him a bunch, somewhat north of $35k for a lien of less then $2,500.

The sward cuts both ways.
Yep, I'm a GC and have dealt with this stuff for 40 years. An excavation sub-contractor rented a piece of equipment on another job. When the rental company found it it was loaded on his truck on my job. The rental company filed a lien on my multi-million dollar project shutting it down until I could bond off and settle the lien. Cash is not accepted as a bond. So my surety made a bond for the required double amount of lien. That cost money even though the lien was cleared off with no money owed. That was handled locally. A federal lien is much worse to deal with.
__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 02:00 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
capt jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 321
the marine lien is veryeasy on a boat if it is doucumenet it makes it even better for the mechanic be carefull it is not the same as the real world. just saying that's all
capt jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 02:01 PM   #54
THD
Guru
 
City: Seattle
Country: US
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,142
A little bit of misinformation regarding Maritime liens here. A supplier of "necessaries", which includes repairs, can obtain a lien by virtue of the Maritime Lien Act. the maritime lien is a completely different animal than civil law based liens. A creditor must file a complaint in Federal Court. The Complaint is against the vessel, not the owner, a bit of a legal oddity. That is, the legal action is against the vessel itself, not the owner. If the lien is granted, and it usually is as no notice to the debtor of the action is required at this point, the Court issues as "Order of Arrest" and the US Marshall goes out and "arrests" the vessel. A lien seeker is required to post with the court a cash deposit in the amount of the Marshall's cost and the cost of the Marshall's cost of possessing the boat. This amount is set by each Federal District Court. In the Seattle area, the cash amount is $10,000 (if it has not changed recently).

Once the vessel is "arrested", the owner can gain release of the vessel by (1) paying the amount of the lien with associated costs, (2) if the debtor wants to challenge the lien in the court, the court will require him to post a like amount with the court, in cash, a bond, or a letter of guarantee.

As to costs of the vessel while arrested, those become part of the final costs of the action. If the lienholder wins, the vessel or its owner bears all the costs; if the debtor wins, the lienholder will bear all the costs, including dockage, etc. during the action.

For the amounts BB seems to be dealing with, the mechanic filing a lien would seem unlikely.

Lawyer's disclaimer (we have to do this you know!)-since I am not licensed to practice in BB's jurisdiction, this is not legal advice, just a a short explanation of maritime liens.
THD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 03:08 PM   #55
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
The mechanic has already been paid almost $5K on the bill.
__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 04:44 PM   #56
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
THD. Thank you, very informative and you are right very different then what us GC's were talking about. Kinda like the maritime way better it can bite both ways easier.
SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 04:51 PM   #57
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTTEDAVIS View Post
THD. Thank you, very informative and you are right very different then what us GC's were talking about. Kinda like the maritime way better it can bite both ways easier.
I don't like the idea that the owner is not noticed of what's happening until they seize the boat.
__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 05:15 PM   #58
THD
Guru
 
City: Seattle
Country: US
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,142
BB-a defendant is not usually notified of any pending action until a complaint have been filed. So, not any different than usual civil actions. Also, the action is not against the owner, but against to vessel. The original theory being that boats were movable, so the first action had to be to grab the boat!
THD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 05:19 PM   #59
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by THD View Post
BB-a defendant is not usually notified of any pending action until a complaint have been filed. So, not any different than usual civil actions. Also, the action is not against the owner, but against to vessel. The original theory being that boats were movable, so the first action had to be to grab the boat!
So they can come in and take the boat without any type of notice?
__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 06:59 PM   #60
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachbum29 View Post
So they can come in and take the boat without any type of notice?
yep...happens a lot more than you think....
__________________

psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012