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Old 04-08-2013, 04:07 PM   #41
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It's the supply & demand thing. I don't care if the boats are used or not. It's the 90% occupancy (as in leased) rate that drives the prices up. Or rather, I assume it does. If folks who never use their boats would not lease the limited slips I assume the rates will start to come down. But then again, I know next to nothing about the finances of running a marina.
No different than leasing real estate
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:13 PM   #42
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his wife finally convicted him to sell it.

Yep, I've been convicted like that a few times myself.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:18 PM   #43
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It's the supply & demand thing. .... If folks who never use their boats would not lease the limited slips I assume the rates will start to come down. But then again, I know next to nothing about the finances of running a marina.
Not sure I follow that. If a boat is in a slip and the bills are being paid there is no reason this should drive rates up. Conversely if a slip is unoccupied as opposed to having a bill-paying-but-never-used boat in it, I would think that would start to drive rates up as the marina's income drops.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:22 PM   #44
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Not sure I follow that. If a boat is in a slip and the bills are being paid there is no reason this should drive rates up. Conversely if a slip is unoccupied as opposed to having a bill-paying-but-never-used boat in it, I would think that would start to drive rates up as the marina's income drops.
It's called supply & demand
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:24 PM   #45
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BL, I don't get it. A non-user keeps his boat at the marina and it causes your slip rates to rise? Suppose he sells it to a boat user. Does that somehow affect your rates? The boat doesn't just disappear if sold. It still occupies a slip and becomes someone else's dream machine.

The only way it frees up a slip long term is to be scrapped. Another dream dashed...another hope crushed. But at least (in your theory) your rates will go down.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:30 PM   #46
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If there are empty slips with no takers, prices will go down. If there are no empty slips, demand is greater than supply, prices will rise.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:54 PM   #47
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If there are empty slips with no takers, prices will go down. If there are no empty slips, demand is greater than supply, prices will rise.

Thank you! Obviously, I'm terrible at expressing myself clearly, but you've nailed it.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:59 PM   #48
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Aside from scrapping it, how does selling a boat alleviate the new owner from needing a slip? Are you assuming that once it is sold, it no longer requires a slip? Unless it's plucked from the water and permanently decommissioned, it remains in the slip-renting community.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:31 PM   #49
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Sail/motor it out to the middle of the ocean. Call SOS. Get picked up, preferably by a cruise ship. And let the boat drift away. Here are three sailors abandoning their boat via motorized dinghy in mid-Pacific Ocean, January 2003:

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Old 04-08-2013, 06:39 PM   #50
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If there are empty slips with no takers, prices will go down. If there are no empty slips, demand is greater than supply, prices will rise.
I suppose that could be the case with a private marina who sees full slips and a waiting list as an excuse to jack everyone's rates up more.

Many of the marinas around here are city-owned and as such their rates are set by marina costs vs marina income or city tax revenue or both. So if all the slips are occupied, that's great and it doesn't matter if there are 500 boaters on the waiting list, this does not affect moorage rates. And of course the marinas also get income from the businesses that are located on marina or port property and pay rental or lease costs.

What does affect moorage rates are increasing insurance costs, required (environental, safety, or otherwise) improvements or changes to the marina, expansion of the facility to accomodate more customers and generate more revenue, the continuously increasing labor cost of marina staff, vendors, and suppliers, and so forth.

But...... if the slip vacancy rate goes up, then marina revenue goes down. But their costs don't go down. So if the vacancy rate continues, the growing deficit between marina income and marina expendatures has to be made up somehow, and one way to do that is raise moorage rates.

So a full marina around here is a great thing for the marina tenants. What we don't like to see are long term vacancies because that's one more upward driver of moorage rates.

I agree with FlyWright. Whether a specific boat is used or not makes no difference whatseover to someone else's moorage rates. If it's there, it's there, and its potential effect on rates due to supply and demand is not going to be changed by how much the owner uses it. If he takes his boat elsewhere or sells it another boat will take its place and nothing will have changed. The slip is sitll full, and the waiting list is still there.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:40 PM   #51
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Sail/motor it out to the middle of the ocean. Call SOS. Get picked up, preferably by a cruise ship. And let the boat drift away.
That's sort of illegal isn't it?
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:42 PM   #52
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I also sense that charges for marina berths are largely driven by costs rather than demand. Otherwise, there would be few/short waiting lists.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:47 PM   #53
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That's sort of illegal isn't it?
Who is to know? Have a good/consistent story. Helps to be far from shore.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:08 PM   #54
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Here in the uk so expensive to moor /Own a boat the obligation to use it hangs heavy..hence us idiots out in the most inclement weather just to get the benefit if those frittered pounds.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:24 PM   #55
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Ground it on a mud flat and have it burned. Maybe it will become a historic site. Former lumber schooner serving the West Coast at low tide (Carquinez Strait, Martinez CA):



http://www.martinezhistory.org/html/waterfront.html
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:25 PM   #56
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I was talking to my marina manager about empty slips. We are seeing more and more people abandon their boats and the marina has to either lien sale it or scrap it. As you know, scraping a boat can be costly upwards of several thousand and even more. They sold a few boats, one a Trojan sport fisher with twin 454 gas for 3,000. They go cheap. People just quit paying slip fees and the marina get's stuck.

Now the new trend is all the baby boomers are getting older and getting out of the boating life. Look at the newer generation. What do you see? People with iPads and all kinds of media and game playing and no boating. The marinas are searching for new boaters and the population is changing away from the anglo to minorities. The convention they went to in Las Vegas was all about that. They are looking at leaner years ahead.

The mega yacht marinas are still okay. It's the under 120' boaters that are fading away.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:26 PM   #57
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I suppose that could be the case with a private marina who sees full slips and a waiting list as an excuse to jack everyone's rates up more.

Many of the marinas around here are city-owned and as such their rates are set by marina costs vs marina income or city tax revenue or both. So if all the slips are occupied, that's great and it doesn't matter if there are 500 boaters on the waiting list, this does not affect moorage rates. And of course the marinas also get income from the businesses that are located on marina or port property and pay rental or lease costs.

What does affect moorage rates are increasing insurance costs, required (environental, safety, or otherwise) improvements or changes to the marina, expansion of the facility to accomodate more customers and generate more revenue, the continuously increasing labor cost of marina staff, vendors, and suppliers, and so forth.

But...... if the slip vacancy rate goes up, then marina revenue goes down. But their costs don't go down. So if the vacancy rate continues, the growing deficit between marina income and marina expendatures has to be made up somehow, and one way to do that is raise moorage rates.

So a full marina around here is a great thing for the marina tenants. What we don't like to see are long term vacancies because that's one more upward driver of moorage rates.

I agree with FlyWright. Whether a specific boat is used or not makes no difference whatseover to someone else's moorage rates. If it's there, it's there, and its potential effect on rates due to supply and demand is not going to be changed by how much the owner uses it. If he takes his boat elsewhere or sells it another boat will take its place and nothing will have changed. The slip is sitll full, and the waiting list is still there.
This is what happens when government gets involved in business. They screw things up.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:40 PM   #58
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This is what happens when government gets involved in business. They screw things up.
I thought you were just complaining that it's the private "supply and demand" marinas that are screwing things up?

I have no complaints about our "government" marina. Moorage prices have been creeping up, sure, just like everything else on the planet. But we don't see anyhing like the staggering moorage rates charged by the private marinas.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:56 PM   #59
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I thought you were just complaining that it's the private "supply and demand" marinas that are screwing things up?

I have no complaints about our "government" marina. Moorage prices have been creeping up, sure, just like everything else on the planet. But we don't see anyhing like the staggering moorage rates charged by the private marinas.
I prefer quality services over price.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:58 PM   #60
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I prefer quality services over price.
No argument there. That's why we like our marina so much. We get both.
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